The Instigator
SebUK
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Abominminded
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Capitalism is Better than Socialism/Communism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 700 times Debate No: 46686
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

SebUK

Pro

Hello I would like to challange Abominminded to a debate about which ideology is better , Round 1 is for acceptance only and strictly no rebuttal in Round 2 because Round 2 is for me and you to explain why we think our ideologies are better .
Abominminded

Con

Would you be so kind as to join me in a debate, thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
SebUK

Pro

Although just like many say it does matter if a system has previously failed or not i will try to keep this debate focused on the actual systems , first let's define the key terms Capitalism is 'an economic and political system in which a country"s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state'-Oxford Dictionary Socialism is 'a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.'-Oxford Dictionary. Certinaly a big question throughout the 20th century and technically it still is for some which political and economic system works better ? I belive Capitalism is the best system since it works in the most effective and efficient way you must ask why? Capitalism is a value-point system, with the points being capital , 'BUT BUT BUT Capitalism allows people to starve ' do you really think people in the Western World litterly starve? in a prosperous nation there is thousands upon thousands of charities we cannot say people are inherintly evil nobody litterly starves . Capitalism allows people to better themselves and their situation unlike forced equality that exists in Communism/Socialism , Capitalism is based on the idea that you should be allowed to become rich whatever background you come from it is based on the ideas of free trade while Communism and Karl Marx's ideas are based entirely on forcing equality onto people and restricing their freedom . Is it really the fault of the rich (that produce jobs and wealth) that someone who is an un-educated worker and has 10 kids doesn't have as much money as he want? it is his fault for not being responsible enough to make a future for himself and for his offspring and even so he still has a chance to become rich this is the beuty of capitalism wherever you come from you have a chance ? Lets say that man one day borrows a loan and creates an extremely succesful company? that would be rare but it is possible unlike in Communism where you are enslaved and can only make as much money as the state tells you . Even though that man has a choice he could go to a charity (that would be much more common in an entirely capitalistic country with no taxes) , charities are a lot more efficient than government programs an average private charity spends 10% of its budget on administration and most of the money to help the poor while the government programs spend majority of the budget on the administration here is my source http://www.softwaremetrics.com...... well done ladies and gentleman this is your tax dollars at work private charities work 300%-400% more efficiently than government programs if taxes were elimanted or at least lowered i don't see why some people couldn't re-direct some money into charity which is a lot better since it gives you a choice to what charity to donate to and that works more efficiently like i explained before . Capitalism does not take into consideration the nature of man It tramples on the individual"s freedom of choice. For Communism, man/indivdual is nothing but a tool that can be used for the goals of the community a tool that must abide by those goals or be crushed ruthlessly. Communism is tyrannical to the highest degree It gives the government beaurocrats the power to decide how much food and necessary resources you can use and how much you earn and what you can sell or not . In Capitalism people are free to choose what they want. Communism gives the lazy as much as the hard working, while capitalism allows each individual to sell their labor creating a result where the hardest working are rewarded in accordance to how hard they work. In capitalism each person is independent, in communism each person is interdependent, interdependence is a form of slavery. In communism people work where the central Government tells them to, while in capitalism they work where they want. I wish my Opponent good luck and i await his explanation to why Socialism/Communism is better than Capitalism. :) .
Abominminded

Con

"Capitalism is 'an economic and political system i" This system was supposed to include free enterprise . Even by putting a trade mark on something that deal was shot. What does political have to do with that system as far as I got the companies basically built themselves . We don't need to settle things with politics if we have economics , the political part of that went astray under the title of Capitalism and made trade agreements with other countries that are out of the citizens reach and not economical how can you trade with someone that has different priced land, different rules , even the frequently stated " underpaid workers' something we would not allow in our own country but then they allow companies to outsource to a cheaper location, If they don't play buy our rules then they aren't allowed business with us. Now I see where you said political but is CapitaLISM POLITICAL OR DID IT GET POLICIED , cAPITALISM ,sorry cap lock no intense intended , I just the freedom to gain and build as high as you chose but it was never intended to be outsourced where we would be competing against the rules that were set to govern us and we get chinese television set, also the way China conducts itself it is void of Capitalism what would make the same statute we have our system structured on work ok under a differently cratiked system . So like the bail out that is not capitalism that killed capitalism , the ones who were bailed out had competitors . This is why capitalism don't work. In socialism the prize is a government that provides for all the basics , then all the citizens can work on the next page , standardized state of the art healthcare in capitalism you got the HeaLTHCARE HAVING TWO OF THE SAME BRANCHES competing against one another instead of one of them serving the needs of the people , of all people cures you also got the creators being held back so that the distributor does not lose money when the creators get their jobs done right. So you got a bunch of companies doing the same thing and where is their incentive to fulfill our needs? They fill capitalisms needs , where in Socialism whenever an achievement is made its an achievement not just an initiative what capitalism responds to and you lose intuition that way. with all these 'dictators' with other names like monarchy their is only one method they would settle for and it was Capitalism a govern industry and a industry governed but in America the people where in charge that is another reason because capitalism is not run by the government or the people they are existing governments inside our government and now secretary controlled by foreign investors the government tried to make peace by trading goods which were almost like gifts but If socialism would of prevailed with the majority it has backing it they would of had some real gifts , damn cap locks, sorry' , Communism has allot of different forms so it don't qualify , so example China we consider communism but if it's a one man show then wheat is the difference between dictatorship , or is that the nice word we use for those who we traded to "'BUT BUT BUT " I like that ,lol , you missing that it is a theory and communism and socialism differ in the way Soc is communism controlled by the people and Com is soc controlled by the Gov so Com can be either capital or soc but social ism cant be capital or communism cause it has the people or maybe capitalism can not function under democracy , these people do not have a head they are running around on a broken failed system , if one government was to set up under the Social system it would have more leverage then the treat of war.:"Capitalism allows people to better themselves and their situation " it does not better its situation it takes more than it needs in greed to make sure it stays alive , always running from the floor falling out so it takes from everyone it can and keeps building higher running from a thing that will never catch it. But socialism doe's not run from anything or take anything it does not need and it will never crash cause it has a solid foundation and not a hastily built deception of a dream. If Socialism had existed as long as this Capitalism we all would be rich definitely no one in need of anything , so who is the lazy man the guy who sets off to accomplish a new task never that constructs itself as it builds cause it communicates and builds to the goal together. Or is the lazy man the one who works in a job that had not foundation but money so it's the government that makes us lazy but it is capitalism that holds us back and always has lower classes but socialism takes and levels everything so that people can come out on their own and while capitalism projects the vision of the future and free enterprise lends on the indication that the instructed who are actioned off to the capitalists the structure is lost the government fails to prepare the new generation another government prepares their generation so you got the corporations with the gasoline you got the government designing the car by what level the machine will be created and thousands of thousands serving themselves of the institution which this institution (school) is the sales man to the buyer but they don't work to put everyone into the next business their replacements are only a level taller then them that would keep the buyer from losing what the sell and the only thing ever evolving this is the entrepreneur they are the servants they are the teachers of the new class of students they are what you learn when you leave school when everyone is being taught the basics and the same when does the researched discoveries ever spill back into the assembly line of learning. See a flaw in capitalism where socialism is constantly learning as it is evolving at the same time capitalism just stands still . Social;ism is all kind of one of the same and since the technology is shared you don't have mass the researchers the initiative all secretly working on the same thing with socialism does not come any patents like capitalism has but by the time capitalism is done with a cycle socialism already has the new outcome that the buyer is coerced to invest in where they need to be certain socialism is just a whole damn new risk all the time with no part of it failing due to any mistakes in the line Social ism has everyone a servant to the researchers Capitalism increases one lever on one like 2 kids smacking cards on each other but the beloved socialism puts down a card and lets all the ones that sunk lower start to clime back up to the top incase the top sinks lower it's constantly reaching for the endless goal but their is a goal goals where if people knew they existed are what will come of them it will be like being born again . Like walking out of the oppression of slavery into a new land. I mean crap people complaining about living in those little houses that they put the japanese in government funded living quarters and maybe someone will disappointed and want more then the next guy or maybe no one will be disappointed cause it appoints people everyone goes through the ride of school and not all make it but the ones who don't they have what everyone has and the ones who get old they get what no one had they get their life and paid for by them that is guaranteed retirement for everyone that is not paid out of a funder that don't exist and their money is not taken from them and de valued and them old creeping into old and dying of the same thing that they worked for who the people before them worked for and were never given what they had paid for.So with the army to protect them the battle is abandoned what better way then to have someone not make war with you by selling them what they need . wile I heard el presidente did that sailing the army to a buyer that didn't exist and paying with money that will exist only as long as well it wont hold out forever So if the government has the biggest spending and the corporations possess the equity what cooperation is gonna pat for this endeavor because if the government had been for the people and not as a solo industry they would of had the corporations fight the war for them so the this air money is not taken from the large pockets so it must be inflated so that when it comes back to even the money that the corporation possessed is worth less then the money the government states that it has ans what buying power it has so the government has nothing to back it up but the corporations are in debt and have nothing to spend their money on any more it was spent on war the government can borrow from the companies but the companies have nothing to borrow from the government so I got it we'll set one of you against each other then we'll pick a side and sell you off the overrated overpriced criminally overpriced war machines that well howdy you get to extort the money from the companies any way so you build war machines for , us, by us, but you rip off the seller to it's ove buying. so finally your right government does have a role in capitalism this debt that no man on earth can make a sound decision about with everyone you have hired who is supposed to be able to accomplish that organization. that is what you get in the end unorganised government that throws their shoulders up every time they are asked for an answer and runs around to the end of the world in distress and distraught of what it will do . come over here f one of us fail we all fail everyone fails a little but this US has gotten ridiculous I think Obama went on a war shopping spree just to take his mind off it see if the government can eep itself like it has knowledge then it can sell knowledge while it pays for the knowledge but now it's under no obligation to do it's job in educating the future graduates it has more interest in the ones that it can buy and to educate them what does it ever have to lose it can not even tell you why it fails but it is still able
Debate Round No. 2
SebUK

Pro

'This system was supposed to include free enterprise . Even by putting a trade mark on something that deal was shot. What does political have to do with that system as far as I got the companies basically built themselves .' It's just the definition i was given i agree you could say Capitalism is just an economic system like Socialism 'with other countries that are out of the citizens reach and not economical how can you trade with someone that has different priced land, different rules , even the frequently stated " underpaid workers' something we would not allow in our own country but then they allow companies to outsource to a cheaper location' First of all you are talking about a country trading with a country? in a truely free market there is no need for government , and when it comes to the so called exploitation of foreign workers you have to look at the larger picture , many Asian countries are communist and it is hard for small businesses to grow big it is a completly different enviroment, let me also add something you see most of these companies are corporations ,there is much more competition in a free market and corporations wouldn't exist (Corporations are the result of a contract with a government , basically corporations are given extra rights and limited liablity from the government). ' I just the freedom to gain and build as high as you chose but it was never intended to be outsourced where we would be competing against the rules that were set to govern us and we get chinese television set, also the way China conducts itself it is void of Capitalism what would make the same statute we have our system structured on work ok under a differently cratiked system .' I don't know what my opponent means by competing against the rules , what rules , what rules were supposed to govern us? ' This is why capitalism don't work. In socialism the prize is a government that provides for all the basics , then all the citizens can work on the next page , standardized state of the art healthcare in capitalism you got the HeaLTHCARE HAVING TWO OF THE SAME BRANCHES competing against one another instead of one of them serving the needs of the people' My opponent didn't exactly explain why having more than one agencies competing and why a centralized agency is better , -private healthcare is more efficient because than businesses compete to get customers and how do they do that? by offering a better service for a better price . Why can't the private system serve the needs of the people? '. So you got a bunch of companies doing the same thing and where is their incentive to fulfill our needs? ' The enivitace is in making the most money and how do they do that? It is by offering the best product. Speaking of enicitive what makes you think a socialist country has in interest to provide the best product? nothing there is no competitiors they will always make money and it is less of an interest to the central agency to provide the best product because they don't need to . 'where in Socialism whenever an achievement is made its an achievement not just an initiative ' My Opponent didn't explain why it would be an achievement for them 'with all these 'dictators' with other names like monarchy their is only one method they would settle for and it was Capitalism a govern industry and a industry governed but in America the people where in charge that is another reason because capitalism is not run by the government' As far as i understand my opponent claims that dictatorships have an interest in Capitalism this is not true we have historical evidence to suggest that most dictators preferred interfering in economics and heavily restricting businesses. Capitalism cannot be runned by the government . ' they are existing governments inside our government and now secretary controlled by foreign investors the government tried to make peace by trading goods which were almost like gifts but If socialism would of prevailed with the majority it has backing it they would of had some real gifts' Once again the role of the government in a capitalistic world is rather very limited than my opponent goes on talking about the majority which i see as a common characteristic among socialists and alike remember It is not like the majority is always right i belive in individualism , democracy is three wolfs and a sheep deciding whats for dinner . ' so example China we consider communism but if it's a one man show then wheat is the difference between dictatorship ,' I personally don't consider it Communist and many others wouldn't aswell (this doesn't mean i consider it capitalist) and what do you mean by its a one man show than whats the difference?. ' that it is a theory and communism and socialism differ in the way Soc is communism controlled by the people and Com is soc controlled by the Gov ' wrong Most generally, socialism refers to state ownership of common property, or state ownership of the means of production. A purely socialist state would be one in which the state owns and operates the means of production . Now Communism Most generally communism refers to community ownership of property with the end goal being complete social equality via economic equality in simpler words Socialism is just an economic system in which the government controlls the means of production communism is far more it is indeed similar in the basics but you can see big differences when you dig deeper. 'Com can be either capital or soc' Tell me how can Communism be anywhear near Capitalism 'Communism is a classless, moneyless and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, '-Wikipedia . 'capitalism can not function under democracy' It Depends what you mean by Democracy , Direct Democracy is an utiopian dream and like i said earlier Democracy is Three Wolfs and a Sheep deciding whats for dinner , Democracy lets the 51% discriminate the 49% Capitalism is based on Individualism. ' it does not better its situation it takes more than it needs in greed to make sure it stays alive , always running from the floor falling out so it takes from everyone it can and keeps building higher running from a thing that will never catch it. ' Capitalists don't reject the idea that it is based on greed , humans are naturally greedy and imperfect this is one of the big reasons why Socialism fails . How does Capitalism take from anyone? Capitalism is based on volunatarily agreements. 'socialism doe's not run from anything or take anything it does not need and it will never crash cause it has a solid foundation and not a hastily built deception of a dream.' Um actually Socialism is the one that is based on the idea that humans are naturally perfect . ' If Socialism had existed as long as this Capitalism we all would be rich definitely no one in need of anything ,' My Opponent is making assumptions that he doesn't back up with any sources or evidence. ' so who is the lazy man the guy who sets off to accomplish a new task never that constructs itself as it builds cause it communicates and builds to the goal together. Or is the lazy man the one who works in a job that had not foundation but money ' Do you really think workers will be so motivated by acheiving new tasks ? that is assuming that humans are naturally perfect again , Money is good motivation and Money opens doors to many different things . ' so it's the government that makes us lazy but it is capitalism that holds us back and always has lower classes but socialism takes and levels everything so that people can come out on their own' Of course there are lower classes in Capitalism this is due to many reasons like education , criminal record , job experience etc Socialism is based on forced equality in which no one can make a better living for themselves in the name of 'the greater good'. 'they are the teachers of the new class of students they are what you learn when you leave school when everyone is being taught the basics and the same when does the researched discoveries ever spill back into the assembly line of learning' What i don't like about Public School is exactly the fact that it doesn't prepare you for what you are gone face when your older , It doesn't teach you how to manage money it doesn't teach you how to manage a household etc. 'See a flaw in capitalism where socialism is constantly learning as it is evolving at the same time capitalism just stands still' this is an argument with no evidence behind it . 'Social;ism is all kind of one of the same and since the technology is shared you don't have mass the researchers the initiative all secretly working on the same thing ' People are not working on the same things but constantly comming up with new ideas , in Socialism there is no inicitive to create new technology because you have no reward. 'So with the army to protect them the battle is abandoned what better way then to have someone not make war with you by selling them what they need ' I doubt in the existance of big government armies in a Capitalist society. Than my Opponent keeps talking about the roles of corporations that wouldnt exist in a free market and about the government . ' that is what you get in the end unorganised government that throws their shoulders up every time they are asked for an answer ' once again the role of government in a capitalist society is to ensure safety over the society as the whole and observe what's goin on , I don't have any space to address any more issues if i think any other issue that i havent adressed in this is worth it i will do it in Round 3.
Abominminded

Con

Abominminded forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
SebUK

Pro

I extend my arguments
Abominminded

Con

Abominminded forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
SebUK

Pro

I further extend my arguments and urge everyone to vote Pro
Abominminded

Con

Abominminded forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Conservative101 2 years ago
Conservative101
Cuba, North Korea, Laos, Vietnam, and China all are Communist. All 5 of them are not doing very well. There isn't many human rights, including freedom of speech and press.
Posted by SebUK 2 years ago
SebUK
'While the companies control the payment given to it's workers you work for them that is slavery ' No company forces you to work for them you can always leave or join another company or start your own company or ask for money from private charities . If Capitalism is slavery than Socialism is slavery since you have to work for the government , It doesnt work that way . By The Way i couldn't adress all your issues in Round 2 since you have wrote so much i didn't have enough space to adress all of your issues .
Posted by Abominminded 2 years ago
Abominminded
Thanks I enjoyed your post I ran out of room but IDK maybe someday some conclusion will be made out of all the hypotheses "the lazy as much as the hard working, while capitalism allows each individual to sell their labor creating a result where the hardest working are rewarded in accordance to how hard they work. While the companies control the payment given to it's workers you work for them that is slavery you don't come out of school having anything to sell only that they can buy you.. in socialism everyone has the same curriculum so when they come out of the learning machine their not selling their labor their selling what was placed back into the top and trickled down evenly all the leftovers which you would think to be mundane but makes each new arrival top of it's class not just ready to take on to get to the top then the extra it makes is fed again so it has double momentum" then capitalism In capitalism each person is independent " IDK in capitalism your kinda coming into the work force being molded to fit them but socialism they spit them out of the top and their always going in a new direction that into the unknown keep it interesting ?, i"n communism each person is interdependent, """"interdependence is a form of slavery".""" (I like that that is true!) one more thing here socialism qualifies people so much the more it can place you into your most productive earlier because even though it is all for one unlike the democratic that claims to be equal and it is forced to treat everyone with the same medication regardless of their symptoms or side effects. Every one of my people come out of the assembly molded into the mold they developed into that cas cutting edge and had enough jobs we had the researchers be the teachers at the same time cause who needs to know what is already known you waste a whole generation that crappy underpaid teacher she brings nothing to the table except what she learned from the beginning of her life ! What isLast model
Posted by Abominminded 2 years ago
Abominminded
Got it thanks.
Posted by SebUK 2 years ago
SebUK
Because if you type in your arguments already it will be not fair because i will have to adress them in Round 2 and won't be able to explain why i think capitalism is better , my system works best because we all get the chance to explain why our ideology is better
Posted by SebUK 2 years ago
SebUK
click Post your argument but than only write that you accept (don't type in any arguments) , in Round 2 we each explain why we think our ideology is better so no rebuttal (rebuttal is , adressing your opponents arguments) than in Round 3 we address each others arguments .
Posted by Abominminded 2 years ago
Abominminded
When two people debate, one of them makes an argument, and the other follows with a rebuttal, so what does the acceptance part entail?
Posted by Abominminded 2 years ago
Abominminded
Could you sum up what I do here , rebuttal , what is that a?
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