The Instigator
SegBeg
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
kyleflanagan97
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Capitalism is better than Socialism/Communism!

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
SegBeg
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/20/2016 Category: Economics
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 303 times Debate No: 91593
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

SegBeg

Pro

The first round is for acceptance. So therefore, I will introduce myself. I will be arguing that Capitalism runs circles around Socialism and or Communism.

Good luck Opponent!!!
kyleflanagan97

Con

I accept this debate and I look forward to defending Socialism, there are distinct differences between Socialism and Communism and I intend to focus on Socialism, hope that it is alright.
Debate Round No. 1
SegBeg

Pro

That's fine. I know the difference between Communism and Socialism. Communism is when all land and property is controlled by the government. Socialism is when all land and property is owned by the community. This sparks a big problem and this is what I will be covering.

With Communism or Socialism, it is not liberating at all. You basically have no control over your life- the government/ local community has. Since Communism controls all goods and services, the individual is at the total mercy of the State. You have no rights except those granted by the State. The old Soviet Union was a police state, with total control over its citizens. Freedom of travel is restricted in a Communist State because they control who gets what and for how long. If you were lucky enough to get a car in East Germany, it was usually a worthless piece of junk. This too goes for Socialism.

Under Capitalism, individuals own and control land, capital, and production of industry. Individuals are free to purchase and own their own homes, cars, furniture, and other goods such as TV, radios, computers, boats, or any thing else you might want. You have total freedom to live where you want and what type of job field you want to pursue. If you have an idea for a new business or invention, you are free to pursue this without government interference. Under this system you have the maximum number of choices in life. This is the 'pursuit of happiness' from the Declaration of Independence.

Source:

http://www.culture-war.info...
kyleflanagan97

Con

I would first challenge the accuracy of the source you are using for your definitions, Socialism simply seeks government control over companies that are so large that they could have disastrous effects on the economy. Something that was shown to the United States in the 2008 Economic Crisis. With socialism individuals have many rights, including what type of job you want, which car you wish to buy, or really anything you seek to buy. All that a socialist helps to control is corporate greed so that everyday citizens do not suffer. I cannot challenge the things you say under a communist rule, but that is not even close to control in a socialist country. There is no travel restrictions in countries like Sweden, Norway, Canada, Ireland, Belgium, which are all socialist countries.
Debate Round No. 2
SegBeg

Pro

I get you point. Capitalism can lead to greed which I think is a huge disadvantage of Capitalism, but Socialism is no better. It just doesn't work.

#1- Socialism leads to high tax rates- in a Socialist society, citizens will have to be bigger amounts of money to provide for the considerable public services.When a large percentage of an individuals income is taken by the state, incentives to work are diminished, particularly when the public services are poor in quality. When socialists are questioned on who pays for the "free stuff", the answer is always the same " "the rich". In a graduated income tax system, the richest pay a much larger percentage of their income, which seems fair. However, at a certain point these rich people simply leave the country, taking their wealth with them, that would have otherwise been available for the public services. As a result, less money is available for the state to spend and public services suffer. Evidence of this can been seen in France, who adopted a 75% super-tax on the super-wealthy. French President Hollande was eventually forced to drop the tax as the richest either left the country or threatened strike action.

#2- Socialism leads to Tyranny " The main reason why socialism fails is because it gives over too much power to the state. Not only is the socialist state substantial in size, having large amounts of control, but it is also coercive and incompatible with freedom. The simple fact is that man is corruptible by power, and power is what the socialist state most certainly has. Socialists commonly argue that the socialism we have seen in the Soviet Union, in Communist China and so on, is not "real" socialism. This maybe true, however the fact is that these "not really socialist" countries certainly set out to be really socialist. At some point somewhere along the line, these socialist regimes where corrupted and became tyrannical, resulting in the deaths of millions and millions of people. It is a pattern that we have seen time and time again almost wherever socialism has been tried. Whenever a state has substantial power, it almost always abuses that power. Which is why true and functioning socialism is simply unattainable.

and #3- Socialism causes economic calculation problems " A fundamental flaw within the socialist centrally planned economy is the lack of rational economic calculation that can take place. In a market economy, there is a profit and loss system that provides signals based on consumer satisfaction. If the business is making a profit, we can assume that the consumer is being satisfied. However, if the business is making losses, then the consumer is not being satisfied and the business needs to change their strategy. A centrally planned economy, in which the state owns the means of production, does not have a functioning price mechanism, therefore information about desirability and abundance of a good is unavailable, which can lead to shortages of desired goods, and surpluses of unwanted goods. This ultimately has disastrous economic consequences.

source:

https://quillpigz.wordpress.com...
kyleflanagan97

Con

I am so tired of hearing the argument, that taxes kill the incentive to be rich. Are you saying you would rather make 50,000 a year because you don't want to pay more in taxes? There is nothing that suggests that higher taxes kill incentives to work hard. Socialism leads to high tax rates for people who can afford it, unlike capatalism where the rich pay the same as poor people, but the difference is that poor people just cannot afford 10-20% of their income when they are making minimum wage. And this country should not be under the control of a very few rich people. Should we not tax them because we have to keep them happy? No, they are citizens here too and they will pay their share.

Soviet Union and China were not socialism, they were communist, which is a big difference. Name one successful capitalist state. That is my challenge, and back up your explanation. And again you have to consider that socialism is not complete government control over production. It is government ownership on certain things that get so large that if they fail they could cripple a nation. My greatest flaw with capitalism is that each company will lead to a tyrannical leader, that being the CEO. The policies in a socialist state are put in place to protect people from those who own a lot.
Debate Round No. 3
SegBeg

Pro

I'd be glad to name some successful Capitalist countries:
United States-
Canada-
United Kingdom.
Australia.
New Zealand.
Austria.
Ireland.
Sweden

Though they're not entirely Capitalist, they mostly are and none of them have fallen to cripples, plus I live in the UK and we have one of the strongest economies in the world and the pound sterling being the most valuable currency. I understand that Socialism has good intentions. It wants to assure that the rich do not oppress the poor and I totally get that. But a Socialist society would not work because no one can be that selfless. Let's face it, we're all greedy.

And besides, since in a Socialist society the government has ownership of basically everything, it seems a bit unfair that no one gets to own anything. This could lead to tyranny just as much as Capitalism can; the government could one day decide that they want to stop people using a certain thing.

I'm not saying that Capitalism is flawless because both Socialism and Capitalism have pros and cons, but Capitalism has more pros than Socialism.
kyleflanagan97

Con

Canada is a socialist country, as is Sweden. For those that fall in between, I would argue that they all far on the more socialist side of things than capitalist, even the United States. As for us not trusting anyone to be that selfless, that is the largest flaw of Capatalism, that it puts all the trust in business owners with no safeguards. in a socialist country the government does not own everything, you again confuse socialism with communism. With a socialist country there is ownership over some things not everything, so individuals still have the opportunity to own their business, and this checks and balance prevent government tyranny.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Reigon 6 months ago
Reigon
SegBegkyleflanagan97Tied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro provided sources while Con did not "http://www.culture-war.info/Socialism.html" "https://quillpigz.wordpress.com/2015/08/26/5-quick-reasons-why-socialism-fails/" Con never made any rebuttals where pro stated the following flaws of socialism: "Socialism causes economic calculation problems " " Socialism leads to Tyranny"