The Instigator
Basketball126
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The Contender
PsychoScientist
Con (against)
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Capitalism is better than communism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/23/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 398 times Debate No: 78027
Debate Rounds (5)
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Basketball126

Pro

I have seen you do this debate with other people but not finish it. It would be great to do this debate with you. You can start your argument first. I will be argueing that capitalism is better than communism
PsychoScientist

Con

Hello, thank your for challenging me. I have been studying Communism and Capitalism for a long time. I think this is the time to settle this. Since you allowed me to make my first arguments, then I shall start.

Communism is better for the People

Communism is a form of government that calls for a stateless and classless society, which is freed from oppression and scarcity. Firstly, communism is better for the people in security. Personally, I think Communism is another word for equality. Viewing the theory of Karl Marx as Marxism, which is the one I follow, is the theory that stands for equality. He viewed Communism as a place where everybody have the same things others have, but in this case, only the necessary things, which are, Water, Food, House, and Health. With this cause, there would be no crime for ownership. Capitalism encourages private ownership. How is private ownership acquired? Money. Money means Power in a Capitalist society. In Capitalism we can say that without money, there is no life. This is why Communism is better for the People. Also, since Capitalism encourages private ownership, you can create your own business. The problem with this, is that when making a company it is not necessary to answer to government regulations, this means that practically I can sell whatever I desire, such as inside of a can, when a completely different substance can be found within.

Communism is better for a Country

I explained that Communism is based on equality, but I didn't mention that if a Communist country has a government then it is not Communist. In a Communist country, it would always be neutral, it would have no relations with other governments whatsoever. Capitalism means war. Capitalism were the ones to mechanized weaponry, thus lowered the cost of entry to war. Such as the United States of America. United States is currently in war with ISIS, and they made a deal with Iran to give them $20B from the tax payers, they also actually made plans to commit acts of terrorism to their own people, the North Americans. The CIA had been illegally doing experiments on Americans with drugs, this was known when George Bush revealed and apologized to the American people for having done this terrible acts. Communism is an idea of peace.
This is why Communism is better for a Country.

Conclusion:
I have shown enough evidence that Communism is better than Capitalism as a theory. I have shown true facts and evidence.

Sources:
http://www.haaretz.com...
http://www.usnews.com...
http://foreignpolicy.com...
http://www.marxist.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Basketball126

Pro

Thank you for accepting the debate. There are many reasons why capitalism is better than the communism.

1. "Communism is equality"
In theory this is true. Everyone gets equal pay and equal benefits no matter their career or profession.
Let's give two people for example.

Person 1- works hard for many years. Works long hard hours every week and eventually gets to become a successful doctor.
Benefits- one story house, meals paid for $2,000 a month.
Person 2- Never takes education seriously. Never has initiative to work hard, and accepts a job as busboy.
Benefits- one story house, meals paid for $2,000 a month

As you can see person 1 and person 2 received the same benefits despite much different career paths.

What is the incentive for people to work hard if their all going to receive the same benefits.

2. Performance-
As stated earlier, people have no incentive to work hard because everyone receives the same pay. This resultes in people not striving to achieve at their career.
Why would someone want to excel at their job if their is no need to.
For example

People walk into a restaurant sit down at a dirty table that hasn't been cleaned. After about 15 minutes a waiter comes to serve their table. The customers find out that the restaurant is out of about everything. Finally after a long wait the server brings the food to the table. Tips are not used at this restaurant.

This is what happens to people at a lot of communist countries restaurants. The Servers have no reason to try and move up the ladder and become a manger or higher position because for them there is no reason to.

This example could be used for any business or company.

3. Give everyone equal pay.
Many people say that capitalists are greedy and selfish.
Why shouldnt someone who makes a lot of money give to someone who has less Money? Aren't they greedy?
Let's use an example to answer this question

Michael- Since elementary school Michael decided that he wants to go to a great college. All the way through the high school Michael works his butt off achieving good grades. Michael gets into college and continues to work hard. He graduates with his degree after four years of studying. Michael gets a job at the law firm. Eventually he works his way up and starts his own law firm. Michael ends up making $250,000 a year.

Tony- Tony always goofed around in school and never took anything seriously. In high school Tony was always more focused on always having fun than on getting a good education. Senior year comes and Tony doesn't have the grades to go to college. He doesn't really care because none of his friends were going to college either. Eventually he starts working at McDonalds earning minimum wage. Tony ends up making $15,000 a year.

Tony doesn't think he should have to pay any taxes and also thinks that people like Michael should have to pay huge taxes since he has more money.

So is Michael greedy because he doesn't want to give away large amount of his hard earned money. Or his Tony greedy because he thinks he's entitled to money other people have worked hard for.

Now you should see how ridiculous it is that people like Michael and Tony would receive equal pay. That's how it would work in a communist government.

We should be financially supporting people who can't support themselves, not people who won't support themselves.

This is why Capitalism is better than Communsim.
PsychoScientist

Con

I thank my opponent for his arguments, I shall start of my rebuttals.

Although my opponent's argument was true, he failed to complete his argument. He made his argument (I call it argument since he only gave paragraphs of one same idea) in terms of people who have a chance in life, not of people who were born in poverty.

The people you forgot to mention.

You may have misunderstood, or confused the word "greed" and "selfish". My opponent "selfish" is what you seem to be since you forgot to include the poor people, or just didn't care about them. Communism is about a classless society, this means that there are no poor nor rich. Capitalism is all about classes, there are rich, mid-class, and poor.

Communism gives same pay to everyone, regardless what kind of people there are. Communism, in theory, represents a classless society in peace. This means, no poor, nor rich people.

Capitalism

In Capitalism there is always something your greedy heart wants to hold on to, in Communism there is nothing you want, because you have everything you need. Capitalism is greed, since people always want more than it is necessary. Selfishness well since you are always wanting something more everyday of your life, without thinking about those people who stand in light waiting for you to at least drop a coin in their empty containers. Fortunately, not everyone is like this.

"So is Michael greedy because he doesn't want to give away large amount of his hard earned money, or his Tony greedy because he thinks he's entitled to money other people have worked hard for?"

To be honest, I had to fix some of your punctuation before going into this sentence. I think the sentence would have actually made sense if you replaced the word "greedy" with "selfish". What about the people who work hard all day picking up trash to make a living because its the only way they can make a living out of? While in Communism they can make the same living just like everybody else.

Maybe you don't notice this because you never think about it. That is selfish.

"Many people say that capitalists are greedy and selfish."

This is actually true, but obviously not all. Did you know that deal, I explained about US giving Iran $20B? Do you know who are the ones who pay those taxes? The U.S. tax payers.

Conclusion: I have weakened my opponent's argument with true facts and evidence. Also consider voting for me in punctuation, spelling, and grammar and about sources and information, and more to come.
Debate Round No. 2
Basketball126

Pro

Thank you for the rebuttals. What you said about me not caring about poor people is simply not true.

"You may have misunderstood, or confused the word "greed" and "selfish". My opponent "selfish" is what you seem to be since you forgot to include the poor people, or just didn't care about them."

1. Giving people money doesn't solve the issue of poverty.

In 1964 Lyndon Johnson declared a war on poverty. Multiple government agencies were created to help economically support the poor. Again, this looks great in theory, but it was a horrible failure. The U.S. spent 5 trillion dollars and still failed at solving the poverty problem.

A. Rather than give money to the poor, people need to be taught how to save their money and grow it. If people were poor before being economically supported, giving them money isn't going to solve their problems because there going to lose that money again and stay poor. This is why the War on Poverty which gave 5 trillion dollars, couldn't even solve the issue.

B. Supporting people gives them no reason to strive and work hard.

An example of this is in Owsley County Kentucky, an area were half the adults are illiterate and unemployed. Also the poverty rate is over 46%.

This is what one resident had to say.

"The war on poverty was the worst thing that ever happened to Appalachia," "It gave people a way to get by without having to do any work."

Local officials also said this
"many parents urge their children to try to go to special education classes at school as a way to prove they are eligible for [SSI] disability benefits." (The senior class at the local high school picked as its motto, "I came, I slept, I graduated.")
http://fee.org...

So the issue isn't that poor people aren't being supported. The resident there said that was the problem. These handouts give people a reason never to work, which results in them staying in poverty. Parents are even looking for ways that there children can help get more handouts by taking special education classes.

I think that we should help people with less money get back on their feet, and help them build a career, but government handouts should not be a career choice.

"What about the people who work hard all day picking up trash to make a living because its the only way they can make a living out of?"

While that sounds so true and unfair it is not usually the case. As I showed above people are looking for reasons not to work and support themselves. Many people who are on welfare and also want their heath insurance to be paid for also have Iphones and cable TV. These people claim that they "can't afford heath insurance. "

You also make it sound as if it is impossible to get out of poverty. While in no way shape or form am I saying it is easy, hard working people become successful through determination.

When you use so many tax payer dollars to fund handouts, you take away jobs. A business would be able to create jobs with capital, but if that capital is taken away from the government, they no longer have jobs to create. Which means less chances for the less fortunate to start a career.

My opponent also never had any response to why anyone has motivation to work hard. He even confirmed it.

"Although my opponent's argument was true, he failed to complete his argument."

Admitting that there is no reason to achieve.

2. Communist countries fail

Every country that has tried communism has failed here is a list of just a few.

Soviet Union, Bulgaria, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Romania, Slovakia, Angola, Ethiopia, and that is just some of the list.

"Communism, in theory, represents a classless society in peace. "

North Korea have nuclear weapons and threaten to use them. Also they force their people to obey everything the leaders say and do. People aren't aloud to watch or read anything the government doesn't want them to. Does that sound like peace.

" in Communism there is nothing you want, because you have everything you need."

"North Korea faces famine: 'Tell the world we are starving' "

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

People all over North Korea have very little food and are starving. Does that sound like they have everything they need.

This is why capitalism is better than communism

Sources
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
http://www.infoplease.com...
http://fee.org...
http://www.forbes.com...
http://bobzermop.hubpages.com...
PsychoScientist

Con

PsychoScientist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Basketball126

Pro

My opponent has forfeited his turn. I have completely taken his argument apart. I believe that I have shown how weak his argument is.

I stand by my arguments.

In communism, no one has any initiative to work hard, resulting in a horrible economy. He never refuted this point.

Communism has been a complete disaster by all that have tried it. He never refuted this point.

That is why capitalism is better than communism.
PsychoScientist

Con

PsychoScientist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Basketball126

Pro

My opponent has forfeited his turn.

I have shown how no one who lives in a communist society has initiative to work hard.

I have shown why a communist economy is doomed.

Also remember all the countries who have tried communism and it ended up disastrous.

This is why capitalism is better than communism.
PsychoScientist

Con

PsychoScientist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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