The Instigator
RebornPatriot
Pro (for)
Tied
3 Points
The Contender
Lasagna
Con (against)
Tied
3 Points

Capitalism is better than socialism

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/2/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,235 times Debate No: 20185
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

RebornPatriot

Pro

I will like to dedicate this opening to an acceptance to a debate.

Opponent must accept these terms.

Socialism-a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

Capitalism-an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

http://dictionary.reference.com...
http://dictionary.reference.com...
Lasagna

Con

Two rounds to flesh out the efficacy of socialism vs. capitalism with no particular emphasis. Ah what the hell.
Debate Round No. 1
RebornPatriot

Pro

C1: You have a better chance of success and chasing your dreams in a capitalist system.
In capitalism people can pursue happiness and have a better chance of success than any other economic system. Competition makes business, schools, and hospitals better because there all fighting for one thing: money. Competition results in lower prices and productivity.In socialism the government hands everything to you, a house, healthcare,education and this is were socialism goes wrong if you get everything handed to you what is the point of working. Care to explain? You notice how Haitians come to Florida (523 miles away) instead of Cuba (53 miles away), the Turks & Caicos(110 miles away), Jamaica (124 miles away) and the Cayman Islands (440 miles away). Because they know that in Americas capitalist society they have a better chance for a better life than any other leftist government.

C2: Welfare dosen't lift people from poverty.
In America during 1964 we declared war on poverty. In 1968 13% of Americans were in poverty. From 1968 to 1980 we increased welfare payments by 400% precent, the end result? 13% of Americans were still in poverty by 1980[1]. Still believe in a welfare state?

C3: Capitalism is better for the Healthcare system.
A former soviet nation Estonia had a life expectancy age of 64 during soviet rule by 1994 just a few years later they had a life expectancy of 72.8 because they allowed the private investment of the healthcare sector.
Lasagna

Con

Pro's points:
______
C1:
---------

== Competition for money makes people want to work. ==

Why is working a good thing? Aren't there better things in life than just working? What about things like volunteering (since you are certainly meaning "work" in the context of profit)? What about aiding family and friends with services like cleaning, cooking, child-care, errands, home repairs, driving, and various other activities which people need? Would you look at a 1950s housewife and tell her she needs to hire a baby-sitter and a cleaning crew so she can start a business and the family might as well stop at Burger King on the way home from work and school?

I am in agreement with you that capitalism makes us work (for profit) more, but the question is whether or not more work is really what we need. I would argue that many profit-driven occupations that could be strived for are not an overall benefit to society compared to other things people could be doing to help one another. Things like Food production, house construction, and production of basic needs like clothes and tools are absolutely vital, but as you get away from this crowd you reach secondary, tertiary, and finally luxury goods which are all debatable as far as their overall efficacy at improving human well-being.

== Competition makes business, schools, and hospitals better because there all fighting for one thing: money.==

That's rather unsubstantiated. I will simply say the opposite, unless you provide more evidence: cooperation makes the aforementioned better because they're all helping one another.

==if you get everything handed to you what is the point of working. Care to explain?==

Non-sequitur; if there aren't people to work to make the goods, then the goods wouldn't exist in the first place to be "handed" to people.

==Haitians come to Florida...Because they know that in Americas capitalist society they have a better chance for a better life than any other leftist government.==

According to Rutgers University:

"research on this subject suggests that the causes of immigration are often more complex and numerous than most assume. These include so-called "chain" or "network migration" in which a single initial immigrant can spur a chain of new arrivals from his or her family or community; the direct recruitment of skilled and unskilled workers by firms, governments, or job contractors in an increasingly transnational labor market; the capacity of natural disasters, environmental crises, overpopulation, wars and civil unrest to uproot and set in motion millions of people around the globe; and refugee and asylum policies that extend relief to some noncitizens fleeing political, ethnic, religious, and gender persecution. This is but a short list of the various micro- and macro-level catalysts to mass immigration to the United States today. Evaluating the causes of U.S. immigration can reveal a great deal about recent immigrants, their homelands, and America's image abroad." (1)

He's addressing your argument directly, trying to simplify immigration as simply people flocking towards capitalism. I doubt any immigrant surveyed would specifically list "capitalism" as the reason they are coming. Perhaps a few wealthy and ideologically-inclined ones, but most people are chasing things like social freedom, democracy, and wealth. Besides, isn't it much more likely that they would be chasing socialistic institutions?:

"39.68 million Americans are now on food stamps, which represents a new all-time record. But things look like they are going to get even worse. The U.S. Department of Agriculture is forecasting that enrollment in the food stamp program will exceed 43 million Americans in 2011." (2)

If I were an immigrant, that would make much more sense to me than "capitalism."

______
C2
---------

==Poverty is rising==

Another from that link: "In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one." (2)

There's plenty of data to show beyond a reasonable doubt out there that the period you speak of was one of income being funneled up to to richest ~5% and away from the poor majority (3). If anything, welfare was just being implemented to offset these effects.

Pro's citation here is missing, which leaves him without any citations as of yet.

______
C3
---------

==A former soviet nation Estonia had a life expectancy age of 64 during soviet rule by 1994 just a few years later they had a life expectancy of 72.8 because they allowed the private investment of the healthcare sector.==

You can't just throw out a statement like that without reference. Are these data accurate? If yes, were there other factors possibly involved?

1) http://gc2000.rutgers.edu...
2) http://www.google.com...
3) http://news.yahoo.com...
Debate Round No. 2
RebornPatriot

Pro

RebornPatriot forfeited this round.
Lasagna

Con

Pro provided no references and therefore gave me no opportunity to critique the studies involved that supported his points. I most likely could have found different interpretations than the ones he drew. Better luck next time, pro.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
lol
Posted by Lasagna 4 years ago
Lasagna
Yeah not much we can do about it though :(
Posted by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
ron paul that vote is a VB Con won...
Posted by Greyparrot 4 years ago
Greyparrot
God I wish I could have voted on this. Rob brings up an awesome point that never gets addressed...is work the only purpose of life? Are there other things more important? Is consumption the only road to happiness?

These are all assumptions.
Posted by Lasagna 4 years ago
Lasagna
Sorry I offended you Ron-Paul.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
RebornPatriotLasagnaTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: If pro had provided sources and had not forfeited a round, this debate would have been A LOT more interesting. But pro wins the arguments because con's rebuttals were either irrelevant to the topic at hand, or, his rebuttals were just stupid like "Why is working a good thing? Aren't there better things in life than just working?" That may be one of the stupidest statements regarding economics that I have ever heard. Con needs a course in economics. He is ignorant of economics.