The Instigator
mongeese
Pro (for)
Winning
30 Points
The Contender
BishMasterJr
Con (against)
Losing
21 Points

Capitalism is the most practical type of economy.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/16/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,290 times Debate No: 8306
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (9)

 

mongeese

Pro

Capitalism - http://en.wikipedia.org...
Practical - Useful - of a valuable or productive kind (http://www.merriam-webster.com...) (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)
Economy - http://en.wikipedia.org...
Type of economy - http://en.wikipedia.org...

My opponent will choose one (1) other type of economy, whether or not it be on the list of economic ideologies, and we will discuss the practicalities and the pros and cons of each, through the course of the debate.

My first argument for Capitalism:
Capitalism allows for things to be privately owned, which creates more incentive for success.
"Capitalism is an economic system in which wealth, and the means of producing wealth, are privately owned." (Wikipedia)

Thank you to whoever accepts this debate, and good luck.
BishMasterJr

Con

Considering the comments that have been made, I will gladly accept the choice of Communism. Specifically, I will focus on pure Marxist communism.

Defined: Communism by Merriam Webster (m-w.com) 2.c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably

Since you are the Pro side, and the creator of this debate, I will not push for a full speech here (that would give me more posts than you 4 >3). However, I will take this to counter the one point you have posted so far as to ensure you do not have more than me.

You have stated that capitalism allows private ownership, and thus has a greater incentive for success. However, this incentive only creates the incentive for one company, one man, one machine. Yet, in the final stage of Marxist communism, everybody is a worker. And everybody is an owner. It creates a society where the entirety of the community is indeed one actor. They all are working as a single unit. If one of them slows down, so does the company, and thus everyone slows down. Leading the end result that all the other works make that lazy worker work. Instead of man leading a company, doing no work, yet receiving more, everyone receives as everyone puts in. Thus, Worker A is hurt by Worker B's laziness. This creates that other incentive I spoke of. In capitalism, only the one Owner loses money if Worker B slows down. Thus there is only one man to get on Worker B. However, under capitalism, the mob of all the workers can try to get Worker B to work again. Rather than one person pressuring Lazy Worker B (as in capitalism, the owner is responsible for the worker); communism offers the alternative of all the other workers, Works A, C, D, E, F, G,H, etc. to get Worker B back into labor.

Communism thus, creates many more incentives for production.

Mob of Workers > Single Businessman

I would like to express here two things:

1. If you are going to vote on this, please give all arguments presented by me full merrit for their word, and not on your own bias.
2. Do NOT include historic nations such as China, North Korea, USSR, etc, in my example. Remember, in the final stage, the government NO LONGER EXISTS. IT IS ONLY ONE MASSIVE WORKING CLASS.
Debate Round No. 1
mongeese

Pro

Alright, then. Capitalism vs. Marxist Communism.

We're talking about private ownership compared to ownership by the society. Private ownership actually creates more incentive. Here's why:

1. Under Capitalism, a man's success is reflected solely off of his own hard work. If a man goes out into a Capitalism economy and tries hard, then with just a little luck, he will succeed, but if he is lazy, and just wants to play WoW for the rest of his life, he never succeeds. In Communism, a worker's actions barely contribute to his own success, as his production becomes diffused across the entire society of millions of workers, and why work ten hours for $100 if you can work one hour for $90?

2. Under Capitalism, one man's work is the only source of his income. Thus, if the man works hard and gets promoted, he makes more money, allowing for more goods and success. If he slacks off, he gets fired, and has to go through the hiring process all over again, but with a slash on his r�sum�. He has a high incentive to work because he's doing work for his own good, and I quote Judel Morrforus Foir, "Capitalism works because it manipulates inevitable human greed in a manner that benefits society." (http://judelfoir.wordpress.com...)

Okay, let's say that this country has a million workers, and the workers produce about $10 an hour, and work ten hours a day. That means that everyone gets $100 every day. Now, Bob decided that he wouldn't actually work during those ten hours-- he'd rather read "The Wealth of Nations." This lowers the output of society by $100, leaving $99,999,900 left. When divived among the workers, Bob realizes that even though he did no work, he still ended up with $99.99, and decides that he shouldn't work ten hours for a penny. This event spreads as a rumor through all of the workers, until they all decide to start slacking off, until it makes a HUGE dent in the economy's productiveness.

However, if the country were Capitalist, then when Bob does no work, he receives no pay. He quickly realizes that he must work to gain money, and through working harder, he can get promotions to get benefits and higher pay, which creates even more incentive for success. Fueled by this realization, Bob progresses through life over the years until he retires as the manager of a productive Six Flags amusement park.

3. Capitalism rewards more skilled work.
Under Communism, who would want to be a doctor? Why take years and years of rigorous training, just to make ten dollars an hour? Nobody would want to do that. They'd all rather flip burgers at McDonalds. This leads to less doctors, which directly leads to more medical deaths.

"Mob of Workers > Single Businessman"
When the other workers realize what Bob did, they won't yell at him to stop. They'd join him. Hey, if there were 100 people in the factory, and all of them went to a library and read books for ten hours, society would only be cheated $10,000, so society would make $999,990,000, which amounts to each worker making $99.99, so they'd start holding factory parties instead of working.
Also, the single businessman would be very powerful in getting his employee to work, because he could threaten to fire Bob if he doesn't keep up, and Bob doesn't want that, and he wants to please his employer, Sam, because Sam is the one who sign's his paychecks.

As a matter of fact, how would the money become evenly distributed under Communism? The only real solution that I can see is government, and that leads to an inevitable dictatorship. How do you propose every worker end up with their "fair" share?

"1. If you are going to vote on this, please give all arguments presented by me full merrit for their word, and not on your own bias."
Okay.

"2. Do NOT include historic nations such as China, North Korea, USSR, etc, in my example. Remember, in the final stage, the government NO LONGER EXISTS. IT IS ONLY ONE MASSIVE WORKING CLASS."
Oh, fine. But West Germany did so much better than East Germany!

Oh, and today, many Communist economies are trying to introduce Capitalist aspects to INCREASE PRODUCTION.

That is all for now. Thank you.
BishMasterJr

Con

BishMasterJr forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
mongeese

Pro

All arguments extended...

Go Capiltalism!
BishMasterJr

Con

BishMasterJr forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
mongeese

Pro

Capitalism is the most practical type of economy.
BishMasterJr

Con

BishMasterJr forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
". . . if he is lazy, and just wants to play WoW for the rest of his life, he never succeeds."

Some people get paid to play WoW. Checkmate, Capitalism!
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
". . . if he is lazy, and just wants to play WoW for the rest of his life, he never succeeds."

Some people get paid to play WoW. Capitalism loses!
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
BishMaster seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
You could also make your Devil's advocacy known in this debate...
Posted by BishMasterJr 7 years ago
BishMasterJr
I'm just trying to play a little devil's advocate. In reality, I'm about the biggest free-market libertarian you will ever meet. Just to make that known. :D
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 7 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
This is the twenty first century you know. It's hard to design software or perform experiments if the motive for work is a mob holding whips :).
Posted by BishMasterJr 7 years ago
BishMasterJr
There is a mistake within my post that I did not previously notice which may result in confusion... On line 8 of my main paragraph, there appears the phrase, "However, under capitalism..." replace capitalism with communism.

Also, i forgot to say. if there are any questions for clarification, can we post them here so voters can see them?
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
The way you defined practical gives you an autowin. Under no system do people produce more.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
I'm just waiting for some commie supporter to come along.
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
Of course. There is no system more perfect than the system in which everyone's desires require another's desires to be filled first. Supply and demand leads towards equilibrium. It is so wonderful.
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Vote Placed by LaSalle 7 years ago
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