The Instigator
Liam_0o
Pro (for)
The Contender
BlueUpQuark
Con (against)

Capitalism or Socialism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/2/2017 Category: Economics
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,031 times Debate No: 103088
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Liam_0o

Pro

Capitalism: Means of production are privately owned businesses are not regulated.
Socialism: The government controls the means of production.
(for capitalism)
Capitalism is not only the more effective choice but also the moral one. People are allowed to run their businesses how they want and hire who they want. Citizens can work for whoever they want and cannot rely on stolen money for help. When businesses are allowed to operate freely they grow and hire more people and pay them more. When a business fails it is at the fault of the owner, and another business will take its place. Prices are driven down by competition and people take part in mutual transactions in which they buy a good or service from a business which then uses the money to continue to expand. Low taxes mean more money in the hands of the citizens which will be invested into businesses which will continue to expand.

Socialism: Socialism does not work and it is also immoral. As I see it people work and then all of their money is redistributed. This is immoral and does not work. If I make 100,000 dollars and someone makes 50,000 it is wrong for the government to force me to pay this guy money. There is not a limited amount of wealth. Me making more money does not mean I took it from the other guy. It just means I was more productive. The work I did was more valuable than his and I was paid more for it. I should not be punished for this. Socialism also does not work. Economics is all about incentives. If I make very little money but get lots of money from the government why should I work? Other people will still be working and I'll just receive their money. So I will stop providing and just stop working. And If I am rich and making millions of dollars but it is all being taken away by the government why would I keep working? At the very least I would not work as hard, and not run by business effectively producing less money. And let's say the government says you have to work. This would not change the morality of socialism, in fact it would make it worse. It also would not encourage people to work well. And they still receive benefits from the hard workers.

Socialism can be different in that the government controls all businesses. This is perhaps even worse. In capitalism, you pay your employees according to their productivity levels. But in Socialism, you would pay them all the same. If not the same the government would pay them a lot more than they deserved. This would destroy the business, as you can't just pay people as much as they want. It is like with the minimum wage. The government would never pay their employees the minimum wage. That would not make any sense. They would focus on paying their employees and not expanding the business to make money to hire more people and pay people more.

(Here is the URL to a story that shows the morality of Socialism but applied to everything, not just income and wealth: http://www.tnellen.com...)
BlueUpQuark

Con

I want to start off by saying that your definition of socialism is questionable. The more proper definition would be common ownership of the means of production. The definitions are however similar and this can be worked with for the debate.

You start off by saying that people are allowed to own and run their own business, and hire who they want. This is true for those who own capital (I may refer to private business as private property or capital in a lot of my arguments, keep in mind that Marxists make the distinction between private and personal property). This is obviously not true for those who do not. It is impossible for everyone to own private property in a capitalist society. So not everyone has the opportunity to experience the freedom that proponents of capitalism advocate so much. There will always be a class system: Those who own private property and those who don't (bourgeoisie and proletariat). Their class interests will always disagree and create what Marxists call class struggle. An example of this is workers wanting to make as much as possible and the bourgeoisie wanting to make as much profit as possible.

It is not always the fault of the owner when a business fails. A large business may try and form a monopoly and this could put others out of business, completely out of their hands. One example is Best Buy. Netflix and Hulu took video streaming by storm, and video stores like Best Buy had eventually had to close, they couldn't out-compete.

Socialism has nothing to do with taxes, however, I do want to touch on what you said. Lowering taxes and giving economic advantages to the rich sounds ideal in theory, but it doesn't work that well in practice. Let's start with the jobs aspect. According to the theory, more money will go back into the business and more jobs will be created for working class citizens. This ignores the fact that demand actually creates more jobs. If the demand for a product or service increases greatly, more jobs will be created to take advantage of this demand. This happens regardless of high or low taxes. This theory has also, historically, led to greater wealth inequality between the bourgeoisie and proletariat. This inequality has been increasing even with higher taxes and regulations.

Socialism isn't about redistribution of wealth to make everyone make the same amount of money. It's about the working class owning the means of production and abolishing class society. Making more money does not always mean you were more productive. Rich ceo's can make thousands an hour and they don't have to do much work at all; they get rich just because they own their business. Many working class folk work much harder and would take much, much longer to make what a rich ceo does in a week (Construction workers for example). Your incentive to work would be the same it would be now; to make money. Whether or not you would have to work for basic needs would depend on the country itself and what direction they decide to go in regarding that path.

You talk about how if people were receiving money as the result of other's hard working labour, then this would discourage them to work. The thing is, this is exactly what happens in capitalism. It is often said that the rich got rich through hard work. My follow-up question would be this: Who's hard work? Ceo's make their enormous wealth off the backs of the labour of the working class. They didn't work to receive all this money; all the employees did.

Socialism doesn't mean everyone gets paid the same. This is bogus propaganda. People would most certainly get paid more or less depending on a variety of factors, the country would have to decide how that operates.

In socialism, there would be no private business to destroy as socialism wouldn't have private business in that sense.
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Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by DboPoint 6 months ago
DboPoint
Capitalism drives innovation and progress. Socialism has false impression that it makes everything better for everyone, but in reality it just takes away decisions from right people and creates massive ineffeciencies.
Posted by BlueUpQuark 6 months ago
BlueUpQuark
Just want to fix a small error I made on my first argument. I typed in best buy when I meant to say blockbuster video. no idea how I made that error, but just keep that in mind when reading that section.
Posted by BlueUpQuark 6 months ago
BlueUpQuark
Just want to fix a small error I made on my first argument. I typed in best buy when I meant to say blockbuster video. no idea how I made that error, but just keep that in mind when reading that section.
Posted by BlueUpQuark 6 months ago
BlueUpQuark
Just want to fix a small error I made on my first argument. I typed in best buy when I meant to say blockbuster video. no idea how I made that error, but just keep that in mind when reading that section.
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