The Instigator
Lordknukle
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
InfraRedEd
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Capitalism vs Communism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
Lordknukle
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/16/2011 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,247 times Debate No: 18364
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (6)

 

Lordknukle

Pro

This debate is about which system is better, capitalism or communism.

I am pro captialism.
My opponent is pro communism.

No arguing about semantics.

Communism:
"A political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs. "
-http://www.google.ca...

Capitalism:
"An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit."
-http://www.google.ca...



No experienced debaters (over 30 debates) please.


Burden of Proof is provided by both sides.
InfraRedEd

Con

What is Communism? It depends upon whom you ask, and when.
My opponent's definition does not narrow it down very much, except it eliminates most so-called "Communist" states.
I hope I get to keep my clothes.
Where do I go to sign up to use the Village Car?
Debate Round No. 1
Lordknukle

Pro



I thank my opponent for his acceptance of my debate.

I will start by providing the BOP.

Consumer is king

One of the most important arguments about capitalism versus communism is that in a capitalist society, the consumer is king. The consumer has all the power. The consumer regulates supply, demand, and price. For example, lets say that many consumers want to eat at a random fast food restaurant. As a result, the demand for the restaurant has increased, the supply has increased, and the price has increased. This is what I mean when I say that the consumer controls the whole business world. By buying this product and not that product, the consumer regulates which products are to stay and which have to go. Since there are many different types of consumer, there are many different brands and stores.

Let's compare this to a communist society. Everybody is equal. Nobody has more than the other person. The government has to measure and record how much each person has so they don't get too much. In this society, the consumer is not king. He doesn't get to decide whether he wants an Armani or Tommy Hilfiger jacket. The government does that for him. Nearly all of the clothes that a people wear will be the same. Same brand, same color, same everything.

Rise to the top

One of the biggest advantages of capitalism is that everybody can rise to the top. Everybody is capable of being a billionaire. It definitely is not easy, but it isn't impossible. One of the most important aspects of this is the introduction and usage of loans. How would a poor person get past Harvard/Yale/Princeton without loans? They wouldn't. Loans allow a person to advance in their life. Whether it be by getting through university with a loan, or opening up your own business with a loan. Loans give you many more choices in life.

Let's compare this to a communist society. Loans do not exist. If a person is born poor, they will stay poor. There is virtually no moving up classes. Nobody opens their own business. Everybody goes to the same university. If a person is born a farmer, they will stay a farmer for all eternity as well as their children, and their children, and it goes on. People have no choices in life. Their life is chosen before they are born.

Capitalism prevents war

One of the most important aspects of capitalism is that it discourages war. This is because of vested interest. Capitalism promotes free trade. As a result of this, countries have a considerable interest in each other. For example, America provides Japan with weapons while Japan provides America with cars. If they were to go to war, the results would be disastrous. Economies would falter. As a result, there is no point for a capitalist society with a significant vested interest to go to war with the country they are trading with.


Conclusion
In conclusion, capitalism is a amazing system which is better than communism. It lets everybody rise to the top, reduces poverty, and it lets the consumer be king.



VOTE PRO




Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...



InfraRedEd

Con

The early Christians were Communists:

All the believers were together and had everything in common.
(Acts 2:44)

Health care

Under Communism, health care would be provided to all who need it.
Under Capitalism, many thousands die every year, unable to get health care under a profit-driven system.

Consumer is King

Production is market-driven in a planned economy also.

Rise to the Top

The concentration of wealth is not a good thing.

"The essential condition for the existence and rule of the bourgeois class is the accumulation of wealth in private hands, the formation and increase of capital"
(From The Communist Manifesto, Chapter I)

Loans

Since Islamic law forbids the collection of interest, loans are going to be in short supply in any Moslem country, Communist or Capitalist.
The profiteering "Pay Day Loan" industry is extremely exploitive of the poor.

Mobility

There is nothing in Communism that ties a person to a particular trade.

University

At least, under Communism, any qualified person can attend a University without undue financial strain.
Contrast this with Capitalism, where, as my Opponent points out, "How would a poor person get past Harvard/Yale/Princeton without loans? They wouldn't."

War

War is endemic to Capitalism, in its constant quest for new markets, raw materials and enormous wartime profits.
The United States, in particular, stands ready to start a war on any excuse.

Vote however you please.
Debate Round No. 2
Lordknukle

Pro

I thank my opponent for his argument.
Now, onto my rebuttal.

"All the believers were together and had everything in common.
(Acts 2:44)"

I just love when people bring religion into a logical and completely un-religious argument. Anyways, you can not prove that they were communists. "All the believers were together". This does not imply communism. It simply means that the people were together in their belief for god. A rich and poor person in today's society can both believe in god. Belief doesn't mean communism.

"had everything in common". Yes, this can imply communism, however it most likely doesn't. It means that all of them were equal. Equal rights, equal freedoms, equal justice, etc.... This can be defined in many different ways. For example, it could mean that all of their physical features were the same.

I urge my opponent to drop the religious argument in a debate which has nothing to do with religion.


"Under Communism, health care would be provided to all who need it.
Under Capitalism, many thousands die every year, unable to get health care under a profit-driven system."

In a capitalism system, there are less sicknesses and diseases than in a communist society. One of the reasons for this is incentive. In a communist society, everybody is paid the same. Whether it be the doctors or garbage man, they all get the same salary. There is no incentive for the communist doctor to invent a cure. If he does invent a cure, he will get no money for this.

However, in a capitalist society it is completely different. Incentive drives people to invent cures. Money is the single biggest motivator in life. Money makes people invent things. People makes cures and sell them for money.

Also, in a capitalist society, everybody has basic health care. If you are a homeless person having a heart attack, hospitals have to legally treat you.


"Production is market-driven in a planned economy also."

In a true planned economy, production is not market driven. In a planned economy, a worker automatically makes 1000 units. It doesn't depend on supply and demand.


"The concentration of wealth is not a good thing."

As a matter of fact, it is. Concentration of wealth serves as an incentive for the poor to strive for. Nobody wants to stay poor. As a result, they have something to live for.

Communism on the other hand, fails because of no incentive. Everybody is the same class. There is no such thing as poor or rich. People don't have any reason to try. That is why communism fails.

"Since Islamic law forbids the collection of interest, loans are going to be in short supply in any Moslem country, Communist or Capitalist."

The banking industry is mainly dominated by Jews and Christians. In Jewish law, interest is not to be charged. In Christian law, interest is not to be charged. Therefore, why is the industry making so much money? Money trumps religion.
I am in no way being racist.


"There is nothing in Communism that ties a person to a particular trade."

You have got to be kidding me. In a communist society, if a person is born a farmer, they will stay a farmer. People in a communist society can not switch professions. Once they become X, they will stay X for all eternity.

"At least, under Communism, any qualified person can attend a University without undue financial strain.
Contrast this with Capitalism, where, as my Opponent points out, "How would a poor person get past Harvard/Yale/Princeton without loans? They wouldn't.""

One of the most important aspects of communism is that it is important for its citizens to be uneducated. Even though people under a communist regime can go to a university, it is not equivalent to a Ivy League standard. Most people when attending their local university will not go into financial strain in a capitalist society. Communism relies on its society being dumb.

"War is endemic to Capitalism, in its constant quest for new markets, raw materials and enormous wartime profits.
The United States, in particular, stands ready to start a war on any excuse."

As I previously mention, Capitalism prevents war due to mutual or invested interests. Communism prohibits free trade and contact. It encourages isolation. Therefore, communist countries have no vested interests.

Conclusion
I believe that I have negated all of my opponents points. I urge you to vote PRO.
InfraRedEd

Con

InfraRedEd forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Lordknukle

Pro

It seems that my opponent has conceived to my awesomeness.

Vote PRO
InfraRedEd

Con

InfraRedEd forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Prez_Siler 5 years ago
Prez_Siler
I love when people use Acts to justify communism." The early Christians were Communists:
All the believers were together and had everything in common."
(Acts 2:44)

The difference: They CHOSE to share their wealth. They didn't have the government force them to give it up. Communism isn't compassionate, charity is.
Posted by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
aw crap. why do I always get the trolls?
Posted by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
It's alright. I'll take you on.
Posted by InfraRedEd 5 years ago
InfraRedEd
I didn't realize it, but I see now that I have 54 debates. Don't worry much, I lost 46 of them.
Posted by kohai 5 years ago
kohai
I'm PRO Communism, but not that experienced in debates (Though I have way more than 30 under my belt) and would like to debate this.
Posted by Lordknukle 5 years ago
Lordknukle
I agree.
Posted by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
This would be a perfect topic for the same time debates.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by jm_notguilty 5 years ago
jm_notguilty
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Vote Placed by airmax1227 5 years ago
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Vote Placed by seraine 5 years ago
seraine
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Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
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Vote Placed by Mikeee 5 years ago
Mikeee
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Vote Placed by DetectableNinja 5 years ago
DetectableNinja
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.