The Instigator
Aresx
Pro (for)
The Contender
LuciferWept
Con (against)

Capitalism vs Social Democracy

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/17/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 341 times Debate No: 95465
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

Aresx

Pro

Parameters and Precepts:


    • Round 1-Acceptance

    • Round 2-Cases

    • Round 3-Rebuttals

    • Round 4-Defense

    • No kritiks

    • Forming a new argument in the last round is unacceptable


Terms:

Capitalism-an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

Social Democracy-a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.


This debate will focus on the advantages and disadvantages of both system. Pro will be definding the advantages gained by a social democracy(Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Canada), and disproving the advantages of capitalism provided by Con.

LuciferWept

Con

I accept the debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Aresx

Pro

C1: America's Healthcare System

1. America spends the most on healthcare, yet acquires the least benefits required to create a stable system:

The US spends more money than the top ten biggest spenders on healthcare combined. Japan, China, France, UK, and Germany, Canada, and Brazil all outrank America when it comes to the aspects of health and mortality rates. 30 cents of every dollar spent on medical care in America is wasted, which amounts to $750 billion annually. That is the same amount the Department of Defense estimates we spent on the ENTIRE Iraq War! This $750 billion of waste is made up of inefficient delivery of care and excessive administrative costs, unnecessary , inflated prices, prevention failures, and outright fraud. The largest defrauder of the federal government is the pharmaceutical industry.Thirty-five percent of Americans have difficulty paying their medical bills, and nearly two-thirds of all bankruptcies are linked to inability to pay medical bills due to being uninsured or underinsured. Medical impoverishment is nearly unheard of in wealthy nations, other than the US, because all have some form of national health insurance.

2. Most Americans do not have access to a primary care provider:

There are 0.5 physicians per 1,000 people in teh US, but in every other modern nations' physician rate is 1.23. The consequences of such recklessness leads to surgeons not having adequete information on what blood type their patient is, and other essential information which would be crucial to the survival of a patient.

3. Fewer Americans recieve healthcare:

Americans do have shorter waits for non-elective surgeries, compared with other developed nations. Only four percent of us wait more than six months, which is considerably less than the Canadians (14 percent) or Britons (15 percent). However, when you consider how many Americans lack access to any health care at all, the wait-time advantage disappears.

Nearly one-third of Americans are uninsured or underinsured. Twenty-five percent do not visit a doctor when they're sick, due to the cost. Twenty-three percent can't fill their prescriptions. This is far worse in America than in any of the other countries surveyed. In Canada, only five percent skipped care, and in the UK only three percent.

4. Physicians are paid less for the qualiy of care they bestow on patients:
Most other countries reward physicians for good care with financial incentives. For example, in the UK, 95 percent of physicians are paid, at least in part, according to the quality of care they deliver. In Australia, it's 72 percent. The US scores lower than anyone else, at 30 percent.

C2: Single Payer Healthcare System

A single payer healthcare systems replace private insurance with public insurance. Instead of individuals having to directly pay private insurers, the public sector will assure an adequete system for doctors. A single payer healthcare sytem still allows the capablility of doctors and hospitals to be private, but hospitals and practices will recieve payment from public insurances rather than private insurances. One can see the benefits of such a system by attaining results from every other modern nation that has already implemented this system.

1. Cost-efficiency:

America allocates 8,600 dollars per patient.

Switzerland allocates 6,700 dollars per patient.

Denmark allocates 6,700 dollars per patient.

Canada allocates 6,700 dollars per patient.

UK allocates 3,500 dollars per patient.

Germany allocates 3,500 dollars per patient.

Spain allocates 3,500 dollars per patient.

France allocates 3,500 dollars per patient.

Italy allocates 3,500 dollars per patient.

Japan allocates 3,500 dollars per patient.

The numbers make the claim for themselves. The federal government is effectivly depleting money by not implementing a single payer healthcare system.

2. Access to healthcare has been dettered by capitalistic greed:
The average American spends 1,400 dollars on an MRI scan.

The average European spends only 200 dollars on an MRI scan.

3. Rankings:

World Health Organization ranked all country health care systems by their access, quality, and costs.

1. France

2. Italy

3. San Marino

4. Andorra

5. Malta

6. Singapore

7. Spain

8. Oman

9. Austria

10. Japan

The majority of the countries listed above are practitioners of a single payer healthcare system. Yet, the wealthiest country in the world with a GDP of 17.43 trillion dollars was ranked at 37th below Costa Rica and the Dominica. Our absurd system must not be held with impunity.

4. Implementation:

American Health Security Act:

Establishes the American Health Security Standards Board to: (1) develop policies, procedures, guidelines and requirements to carry out this Act; (2) establish uniform reporting requirements and quality performance standards; (3) provide for an American Health Security Advisory Council and an Advisory Committee on Health Professional Education; and (4) establish a national health security budget specifying the total federal and state expenditures to be made for covered health care services.

Establishes the American Health Security Quality Council to: (1) review and evaluate practice guidelines, standards of quality, performance measures, and medical review criteria; and (2) develop minimum competence criteria.

Establishes the Office of Primary Care and Prevention Research within the Office of the Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

Creates the American Health Security Trust Fund and appropriates to it specified tax liabilities and current health program receipts, including premium assistance credit amounts under PPACA.

Amends the Internal Revenue Code to impose on individuals: (1) a health care income tax, and (2) an income tax surcharge on amounts of modified adjusted gross income exceeding $1 million. Imposes an excise tax on securities transactions and allows an income tax credit for such taxes.

Universal college is an investment in the 2/3s of our youth that require financial aid. In our era, college experience is a necessity in order to progress in life. We are living in the era where students who are not financially secure that want to pursue the American dream are deterred by student loans. The United States of America is the wealthiest country in the world. The Federal Government has a GDP of 17.43 trillion dollars. America's assets are the equivalent of 223 trillion dollars. The Federal Government spends 800 billion dollars to create the most powerful military in the history of mankind. Yet, almost every modern western nation provides universal college for all. Our country has always been capable of providing free college due to our excess in wealth. Instead of bestowing money to countries with a significant amount of human abuses; we should bestow our citizens with proper education to better equip them for the future. This case will go over the exact plan for community colleges, how it will receive funding, and the advantages our civilization is capable of accessing if the implementation were ever to occur.

C1: Plan
1. Make Tuition Free at Public Colleges
This is not a reckless decision. Many countries have already implemented this step. 39% of young people are expected to graduate college. All European countries have above 80% of young people graduating college.

2. Put an end to the federal government acquiring profit off of student loans
Over the next decade, it has been estimated that the federal government will make a profit of over $110 billion on student loan programs. The implications of such an absurd action by our government is a long term waste of ambitious young people who could benefit America with their more competent skills rather than manual physical labor.

3. Allow Students to participate in work study programs
This is a necessity for those that want to acquire proper experience.

4. Cease acceptance of students below the GPA of 2.8 to 3.0 range.
In order for this program to be beneficial, than GPA caps must be put in place to insure this program is not a depletion of money.

5. This program will be funded by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculators.
The cost of this $75 billion a year plan is fully paid for by imposing a tax of a fraction of a percent on Wall Street speculators who nearly destroyed the economy seven years ago. More than 1,000 economists have endorsed a tax on Wall Street speculation and today some 40 countries throughout the world have imposed a similar tax including Britain, Germany, France, Switzerland, and China. If the taxpayers of this country could bailout Wall Street in 2008, we can make public colleges and universities tuition free and debt free throughout the country.

Universal college is an investment in the 2/3s of our youth that require financial aid. In our era, college experience is a necessity in order to progress in life. We are living in the era where students who are not financially secure that want to pursue the American dream are deterred by student loans. The United States of America is the wealthiest country in the world. The Federal Government has a GDP of 17.43 trillion dollars. America's assets are the equivalent of 223 trillion dollars. The Federal Government spends 800 billion dollars to create the most powerful military in the history of mankind. Yet, almost every modern western nation provides universal college for all. Our country has always been capable of providing free college due to our excess in wealth. Instead of bestowing money to countries with a significant amount of human abuses; we should bestow our citizens with proper education to better equip them for the future. This case will go over the exact plan for community colleges, how it will receive funding, and the advantages our civilization is capable of accessing if the implementation were ever to occur.
Additional information and sources will be placed in the comment section due to the lack of characters
LuciferWept

Con

In your first argument, you make the claim that surgeons do not have adequate knowledge of the patient they are operating upon.You fail to mention the 3,000 British patients who die every month of dehydration in NHS hospitals, a socialized institution.
Let us begin::

In an ironic start to my defense of Capitalism, I must first begin with a quote from the Communist Manifesto.
"In order to arouse sympathy the aristocracy was obliged to lose sight, apparently, of its own interests, and to formulate its indictment against the bourgeoisie in the interest of the exploited working class alone. Thus the aristocracy took their revenge...In this way arose feudal socialism"..half echo of the past, half menace of the future". striking the bourgeoisie to the very heart's core."
Here we see that Karl Marx (who himself was a Communist, not a Socialist) stating that Socialism is little more than the old Elite class, those overthrown by the American and French Revolutions that culminated the Age of Enlightenment, trying to regain their old authority by allying themselves with the lowest classes.

It must be here stated that the adherents of Socialism, especially the common people, clearly do not do so out of malice or hate for the success of others., merely by envy of them; and there is nothing wrong with envy - it is a Natural trait engraved upon every human heart. However, the Socialist masses, blinded by their envy, ally themselves with authoritarian figures: "Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom. Socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." -Alexis de Tocqueville.

"Socialism was not only early recognized as the gravest threat to freedom, but quite openly began as a reaction to liberalism of the French Revolution." -F.A. Hayek. Mr. Hayek goes on to cite the founder of reactionary French socialism, Count de Saint-Simon "Every man who fails to obey this commandment will be regarded and treated by others as an animal." How wise of the Count to have forseen the deeds of the National Socialist German Worker's Party. And it must be accounted for, how in the 1930's, Germany's model was held up to the world as what Progressivism must aspire to be. It was not until the war began and the atrocities of the authoritarian socialism was made known that Sweden began to be held up as the standard of excellence.

And for those who wish to point out that Nazi Germany was no Democracy, remember that Hitler was elected, and remember what the famous American philosopher and martyr said. "never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal." The powers he wielded were bestowed upon him by voters. The Socialist framework was already in place, and had been since long before the First World War. In fact, Germany had begun to experiment in Social Democracy as early as the 1850's, progressively adding government programs on top of government programs. It is most certain that the Prussian and Weimar States did set up the socialist framework with best of intentions: The good of the common man, the benefit of the worker. How could they have foreseen the rise of a mad tyrant? Let us not repeat the German mistake.

But can this still apply in today's day and age? Why look, we have the United Nations!

To answer this, let us examine the great Nations of healthcare, for indeed the American healthcare system leaves much to be desired. First up is France, the Fifth Republic. Article 11 of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, as well as the American First Amendment, both protect the Freedom the Speech. However, the Fifth Republic has set up Hate Speech Laws, to restrict criticisms of others based upon physical characteristics, sexual preferences, and political beliefs. Certainly this is a good thing? Protecting the emotions of others? What about those magazines, to include the now world famous Charlie Hebdo, who have been saddle with hefty fines for criticizing France's drug laws and demanding reform? Or what about the criminalization of Anti-Israel Activism in the Homeland of Revolution? Indeed, the French elites are enjoying the aristocratic privileges that Tocqueville warned comes with Socialism of any kind, Democratic or not. So indeed, you may save a good deal of money in France from your healthcare bills, but you'll just pay the government in fines if you happen to express an unpopular opinion: 22,500 euros or six month's imprisonment! What a price to pay to get free healthcare.

What of Italy, that home of Fascism and burial grounds of the many tyrannical Caesers who plagued the world for 400 years? Indeed coming at number two is great! Although Italian TV show Le Lene was pulled from the line-up for depicting Italian MP's using cocaine in parliament (something that indeed had come to pass). Sound almost like the politicians of another Social Democracy do not like to be criticized, or mocked!

To be more short, Singapore imprisoned Youtube Amos Yee for mocking Islam: I guess its okay because he can get free condoms. And Oman! Lovely Oman. Number 8 on your list, and I quote Human Rights Watch: "Oman"s overly broad laws restrict the rights to freedom of expression, assembly and association. The authorities target peaceful activists, pro-reform bloggers, and government critics using short term arrests and detentions and other forms of harassment. Some detainees arrested since 2011 have allegedly reported that security forces tortured or otherwise ill-treated them."
Lovely to exchange some basic human freedoms in exchange to prolong one's life of servitude to State!

For those idiots crying "It will Never Happen here! American Exceptionalism!" We currently have an Administration which has targeted opposing opinions using the IRS to audit them, and the administration before that setting up mass surveillance: What do you think will happen when they gain control of healthcare?

Now onto your plan to Bern the American Higher Education System: Most Illiberal and Regressive!

You praise making tuition free at public colleges, yet ignore how many of these European students flock to American Universities to study, hiding from the piss-poor education found in their home continent. European Universities, which used to produce minds like Kant, Rousseau, Robespierre, and Nietzche now produce docile working drones who are thrilled to be ruled by unelected elites in the EU. Obedient worker drones who celebrate the arrival of a million migrants from a war torn terrorist hot spot and are surprised when violence and terrorism are suddenly to be considered the norm in their Social "Democracies"!

Once upon a time, in this country, all you needed to go into the world was a high school diploma. Not anymore, thanks to government mismanagement, American high school grads are mocked as among the most ignorant in the world. Social Democrats wish to extend this mismanagement to the higher education system. If the Social "Democracies" in Europe have proven anything, it is that public schools in the US will have to adhere to certain teachings, such as sophistries, will be rigidly taught and unpopular philosophies will be banned once they become socialized. Government meddlers with little more to do in their jobs than to regulate what can and can't be said on campuses: but don't fear, the children of politicians and billionaires and the academic elite will not go to such schools. No! They will continue to attend private universities, in order to prevent them from being assimilated into the mass of slaves Social "Democracy" will push out of its free universities.

"4. Cease acceptance of students below the GPA of 2.8 and 3.0 range".
Man! have you no concern for the individual? What of the kid who screwed off for two years of high school, but buckled down the final two years only to get a 2.5? What of the nerd who is so bullied that he can barely function in school, graduating with a meager 2.6, but has many side projects which attest to his intellectual excellence? What of those who choose to defend their Nation, or opt to travel abroad? Or what of returning college students? Or what of those who simply had unfair teachers in high school? Shall they be all relegated to "manual physical labor"? After all, they could not achieve a 3.0 in one of the worst education systems in the world! What you are proposing will evolve into an Elitist society far faster than Germany's Social Democracy turned into a dystopian nightmare!

"In our era, college experience is a necessity in order to progress in life." I guess only for those who regurgitate what they have been told. Everybody else, to the fields! To the ditches! Look down, look down, you'll always be slave!

I also like that dig at the US military. $800,000,000,000 is quite alot indeed. I guess that's the price you gotta pay when you not only have to defend your own people, but also Progressive Social "Democratic" Utopias in Europe. There is a bright side though: service members get plenty of physical exercise so when they come home they'll be prepared for the manual labor awaiting them.

1,000 economists have supported Bernie's plan. Indeed. Do you know how many Economists are in the United States? 21,000. That means 4.7% of America's economists support Bernie's plan. The other 95.3%? I guess not. If you were to use Six-Sigma (a method engineers use to quality control products) to ask samples of economists to see if they support the Senator's plans, they do not statistically stand a chance. At least 5% is needed. Oh well, I guess those 95.3% will one day get to pay a hefty fine for disagreeing with Social "Democratic" values, or better yet, be arrested as political prisoners!

Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite!
Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by LuciferWept 5 months ago
LuciferWept
Forgot that Progressive Outlets 30's endorsement of ol' Addie

http://content.time.com...
Posted by Aresx 5 months ago
Aresx
http://www.photius.com...
https://www.congress.gov...
http://finance.yahoo.com...
https://berniesanders.com...
http://www.chronicle.com...

Also, Social Democratic countries are deemed to be the happiest countries in the world which is indisputable due to their access to quality healthcare and education.
1. Switzerland-Social Democracy
2. Iceland-Social Democracy
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Canada
6. Finland
7. Netherlands
8. Sweden
9. New Zealand
10. Australia.
World Happiness Report
Posted by LuciferWept 5 months ago
LuciferWept
You should know that before Sweden was held up as the standard of socialistic policies in Europe, which began in the 1940's, the Progressives were holding up 1930's Germany as an example of the benefits of "Social Democracy".
Posted by Aresx 5 months ago
Aresx
We are talking about extents of capitalism. A significant portion of the politically minded community see these two economic systems in black and white terms. I offer the following clarifications.

Capitalism-an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
Capitalism is capable of having government subsidies and regulations as long as the government does not control a significant portion of shares in companies.
Our current system can still be regarded as a capitalistic society.

Also, I must concede to the fact that a social democracy is not socialist form of government, yet still possesses elements of socialism. The definition provided is inaccurate. I offer the correct term:

Social Democracy- is a political ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving welfare state provisions, collective bargaining arrangements, regulation of the economy in the general interest, redistribution of income and wealth, and a commitment to representative democracy.
Posted by LuciferWept 5 months ago
LuciferWept
Umm...those things are not Capitalism..."government subsidies, and unfair regulations". Those things belong more to Corporatism, which is the bridge between Capitalism and Socialism.
Posted by Overhead 5 months ago
Overhead
The problem is that by trying to conflate these two separate things you've caused a bit of a mess.

You've given a definition of Social democracy which is it being socialist, not capitalist and you've got the title of the debate as Capitalism vs Social Democracy when social democracy is itself Capitalist.

Your first post is inconsistent. You can't say that social democracy is socialism and then list as examples of it in action Capitalist countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Canada.
Posted by Aresx 5 months ago
Aresx
Social democracy is a version of capitalism, but is still a extent of Capitalism that I am willing to oppose such as tax rates, government subsidies, and unfair regulations. This system is what many European countries are based upon. Bernie Sanders is a social democrat, despite his claims on being a democratic socialists. Many socialists in America claim to be socialist, yet are actually social democrats. Many individuals desire the same policy framework European countries possess.
Posted by Overhead 5 months ago
Overhead
After looking through your R1 post fully and seeing the countries you list you should keep social democracy in the title but remove reference's to socialiam in the text and clarify what competing form of capitalism you mean.

Democratic socialism and social democracies are two different things.

"Social democracy is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy" https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Investors still have shares in privately owned companies. Businesses are bought and sold. It is a nicer more egalitarian capitalism but it is still capitalism because capitalists own the means of production, not the workers.
Posted by Aresx 5 months ago
Aresx
A social democracy is an equivalency to democratic socialism. Social Democracy is a way of legitimizing a government that has combined capitalism and socialism.
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