The Instigator
layamerine
Pro (for)
Winning
38 Points
The Contender
MewxVenus
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

Catholic Mary is not All holy,Queen of Heaven ..etc

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/28/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,323 times Debate No: 7147
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (36)
Votes (9)

 

layamerine

Pro

I welcome my opponent ! well I do not believe in any cult religion but am follower of Jesus alone ..I am not bashing any religion or individual thoughts but want to learn about Catholic belief and to find out where the error is .
This debate is for the people who believe in Mary and worship her and consider her as All holy, Queen of heaven and sinless.
I am saying to the Catholic that we should not worship Mary nor pray to her nor consider her as Holy , sinless and Queen of heaven. If you believe I am wrong then justify ..

Truth will let you free,
Thanks
MewxVenus

Con

I must say, this is quite an interesting debate. At the moment, I am not sure of my religion. However, I do understand Catholicism to an extent. I believe for a few simple reasons that the Catholics should praise Mary.

First, she was the first ever woman the become pregnant without sexual intercourse. She remained pure and birthed God's child.

Second, she was a very good women, and even if she was not entirely holy in this life, it is inferred through the teachings of the church that she was purified when she reached heaven.

And finally...

Catholics should worship Mary because it's part of their religion! By omitting the worship of the Holy Virgin Mary (HVM) the entire Catholic faith is changed. Catholics worship Mary because it has always been this way. Telling Catholics they shouldn't worship the HVM is like telling Seventh Day Adventists to go to church on Sunday rather than Saturday. It's part of their very nature.
Debate Round No. 1
layamerine

Pro

YEs ! I agree some of your facts that she was the 1st woman to become pregnant without sexual intercourse, but I want to emphasise that being called as Christian why they worship Mary if its not written in Bible. Who are called Christians ?? they are the followers of Christ and His teaching. Then why this strange faith ??.

Second I want to correct you that you can not become holy if you reach heaven after living an sinful life here. You have to lead here an sinless life.

So as you say if Catholics should worship Mary because it's part of their religion! then they are not followers of Christ and His teaching. I once again tell you Jesus did not mention any religion name in his teaching , all these are man made.
MewxVenus

Con

I would like to state that the Catholics do not worship Mary. Forgive my mistake in wording. They venerate her. Basically, they count on her to bring their messages to God. Therefor, she is not a deity in the Catholic church, which proves my point that Catholics are followers of the Lord. Jesus may not mention in particular any religions in his teaching, however, that does not make any religion invalid. He merely spoke to "his children, followers, and disciples." Therefor, the Catholic faith is perfectly valid.

Through praying to Mary, the Catholics hope to have their prayers reach God. There is no shame in this ritual. It is merely something that is the equivalent of passing a note in middle school. They give her the message, she delivers it to the proper person.
Debate Round No. 2
layamerine

Pro

Thanks my friend ! First of all I will some verse from Bible so that you can get an clear idea and to clarify you

that according to Bible we can not pray to any one except Jesus.
1) 1 John 2:1 says, "And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and He is

the propitiation for our sins."

2)Matthew 23:9 says; "And call no man your FATHER (this includes Priests) upon the earth: for one is your Father

which is in heaven."

3)1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

My friend, Mary is a normal person like you and me. She has no other special power. She was faithful to God as other

children of God. She was just chosen by God as God choose people today for his purpose. She was just an medium.

Thats it full stop. Jesus was there before Mary or you and me was born.

Rather than praying directly to God, we are praying to person who is dead and asleep now. Only Chirst has risen from the dead, not mary.

Whats these people are ignorant and they are blindly following what the church is telling them. Its our duty to enlighten them.
MewxVenus

Con

My opponent votes for entirely revamping the Catholic faith. I'm sorry, but this is an unatainable goal. I vote for you Catholics to fight for your beliefs and to continue your praying to Mary. I am your side and I hope you'll take mine. Thank you for this round.
Debate Round No. 3
36 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by layamerine 7 years ago
layamerine
Yes I see them but NOT the intermediate animal ...
You say u enjoy ur life without God, well I want the truth. Man can not be satisfied even he gains all the earth, because there is hole in his soul that can
be filled only with God. You always want more more... But if you know him even if you dont gain anything , you are satisfied so you can face death with a
smile on your face. One can not force God or religion on others... so am not forcing you anything . its once own free will..
life is not about strict following of religion ... its about knowing God, to consider him as your personal friend where you share evrything and to over come all the problems. These problems are there for us to know him deeply. For example when there is problem in our familiy we try to learn to be patience, talk in soft words, rather than we also shouting. But all these learning can be done only through our personal relationship with jesus without which what ever you try ends up with trouble and pain.
I am not upset with what you believe because it is what you have learned from your life. We still have long way to go, so lets hope something might turn up for you or for me. Then we can think. God bless you!
Posted by rangersfootballclub 7 years ago
rangersfootballclub
want to see all these fossils ? i cant physically show you them can i . jsut look them up on the internet , or go to yuor museum and ask .

"why would god feel the need to put hundreds of diffrent kinds creatures on the earth , in the same peroid , in the same area" ... because He is God.

you cant just say they that really fair enough yuo believe that but you cant , i have some form of proof and you dont really.

now , ok you think your life is better without god , fair enough not going to argue that . But not everybodys is . my life for instance , i enjoy doing whatever i want , the purpose of my life , for me is to enjoy myself , work hard and enjoy myself . I wake up in the morning and think to myself ( if i don't have work ) What should i do today ?? should i spend time with my family ? my friends ? sit down have a beer watch some t.v ?? Ijsut want to have a good time in life , we should'nt have to worry about what we do , or be to strict in our lifes about religion. I admit i have done a lot of "sins" but you know thats just humans , to me i don't care to much what i do. Just as long as it does not have a bad affect on someone else i think its ok.

maybe there is , mayeb there is not a haven , im not sure . Nobody has a real answer , theres no real proof to be honest. I think if god is real , if haven does exisist , then surely he should accept all people , no matter what they have done , except maybe murderers etc but the small sinners , because i want to live my life to the full and have a good time while i am at it . They only way i will live like a saint and pay my repspects to god , everyday . Is if he can prove himself , even that he is there. If eh can prove heaven exisists etc.

lets jsut agree to disagree , you believe in one thing , me the other. Why argue about that anymore ? we will never get anywhere , as there is no true answer yet.
Posted by layamerine 7 years ago
layamerine
You did not give me one proof of an intermediate animal between two kinds ..you say thousands of fossiles of an animal between animal and man... where it is ?? show me ..

with God i have hope in my life that I will see him. With God I am happy and content in all my ups and downs. With God I am able to live morally. With God i have no fear. I am not dependent on anyone with God.

I can not relate myself to a monkey. If I think they are my forefathers, well they should get a better place than us... come one ... no way ..As i told you all these are the design of one designer thats why all animal eat, get hurt, die.. etc.

"why would god feel the need to put hundreds of diffrent kinds creatures on the earth , in the same peroid , in the same area" ... because He is God

"there doesnt have tobe a meaning to life , just to survive , " ..... if you believe in evolution what you are saying is correct. Life has no meaning, no purpose nothing. You bloom like a flower on day and die another day.
But for me Life has an meaning I bloom to give sweet smell and a pretty sight for the tired restless man. Mans will to extend his life long on this earth is not possible , the more he tries the lesser he is living. Now days people die at the age of 70 to 80 and sometime too young.
One more thing, its not easy for a person to reach heaven, you have to prove,play you part and overcome all the tricks thrown at you by Satan. Thats where the free will is needed.
Good day!
Posted by rangersfootballclub 7 years ago
rangersfootballclub
look , you cant jsut say god did it , thats jsut rubbish . No offence or anything , there is no proof that god did anything , no proof that he exists no nothing , only legends and stories. So you cannot claim for evoultion to be false , when there is no other logical theory with any kind of proof , with god you got nothng , with evoultion , you have the earth itself , fossils and even jsut by lookign at things today you can tell how they evovled , dont say the idea it takes years to do so is rubbish , because thats what evoutlion based around !

a good example is monkeys , please dont tell me that , they in no way are related to us ... look at a monkey , tell me that it isnt like us , is the resembalnace jsut a conicidence ? they look sismilar to us , act like us . there have been thousands of fossils found of creatures that are not monkey , but not quite man , that is evoultion , they are not all diffrent creatures , because there was so many found that were from roughly the sam peroid , the only diffreence between them was that some look a tiny bit diffrent , thats because they were evovling why would god feel the need to put hundreds of diffrent kinds creatures on the earth , in the same peroid , in the same area ...

i tried looking for god a long time ago , he never found me ... there doesnt have tobe a meaning to life , just to survive , you notice how humans have devovlped instincts that help them survivie ? how the will to live is amazing , what some people will do to live , if god was real , we wouldnt need these instincts which make us fear death and do anything to survive , for we would know we would go to a better place.
have a nice day !
Posted by layamerine 7 years ago
layamerine
I can not prove God nor show him to you, because he is God , all powerful, the creater , omnipotent, and can not be limited by an human being. If i can shown him to you, then whats the difference between him and me.
Yes there are lots and lots of fossile but no proof of dog coming from apples . All i can see is dogs produce only dogs but not apples. Please dont confuse with adaptation with evolution. God created living things with gene that can adapt to their environment but not changing from one DNA to another DNA there by loosing the previous DNA information.Scientist People who produce better better gene like producing fat pigs for meat is able to get only PIGS but not a dog not even a pig bigger than Texas.
Animal tends to adapt to environmental changes but it does not change its identity (DNA). This adaptation is given by the designer God because he knew that animals have to adapt to changes.
All the fossiles that you see are types of one breed for example for dogs alone you have 240 types, but even then dogs produce only dogs. Dont again tell me its took years years to change, its just an non proven theory of the evolutionist.
I am not against science but I did not believe in evolution theory. With this theory life has no meaning. With God you have meaning. Look that the wonderful creation with all things interrelated because it has an common designer. If you, His creation sought Him , He will find you, for that you have to take your first step. God bless you !
Posted by rangersfootballclub 7 years ago
rangersfootballclub
look im not meanign to be disrespctful , but you are shwoing me jack in proof . All you are saying is that god did this , god did that , prove it to me ,

I have the proof , fossils are evident that shwo animals evoovling , how hard is that for you to listen to ? For the last time you cannot see thigns evovling because they change so little over the years you never notice , IT TAKES MILLIONS OF YEARS TO CHANGE COMPLETLEY ! There is soooo much proof of evoutlion its unbeliavable , not trying to offend or anything but religion is gone , its becomign a way of the past people are starting to reliase that religion offers no proof of anything and it only attacks science in anyway it can and provides not a single bit of proof.
Posted by layamerine 7 years ago
layamerine
You say that "is always changing" but I dont have the proof. You say all animals are developed from one thing. When you look at the nature they are all inter related to each other. Even our body if you see they are related to each other. Nothing is alone with out any relation. Its the creation of God. Like wise when see God when created things, he created with things that are already present. He did not create everything out of magic or outof nothing. He careted man out of mud. Like wise when he created different gruop of animals, he created them from the base for example to explain to you clearly when he created Apple tree, his base is its a tree but the difference is it will produce sweet apple for the living things.
You say nature alter ?? what force is this ??

If God give to all the power then whats the difference between you and him ??. Then you dont need him. You dont need any body. Man with his power of mind is able to distroy nature and other man , think what will the fate of this earth if he has all the power.
Without excersise and body pain we can not build musels. Like wise without facing difficulty in like you will not be able to excersis the emotion,love,mercy,kindess,...etc. we will be like an machine.

Difficulties are there for man to 1) get closer to god 2) Console others 3) live good life.
Posted by layamerine 7 years ago
layamerine
What do you mean by the image of God ?? Man has 1)The body,2)The soul and 3)The spirit
The Spirit consists of :
1. The conscience – it is the discerning organ. The discernment of right and wrong by the
conscience is not influenced by the knowledge in the mind rather it is a spontaneous, direct
judgment. Many times the conscience will condemn even the things that one's reasoning
condones. The work of the conscience is mostly independent and direct. It is not affected by
outward persuasions. If a man makes a mistake in his conduct, his conscience will condemn
him. God deals with man though the conscience. (to understand the importance of
conscience, the police crack a case by lie detecting test or brain mapping test. No one is
exempt from conscience)
2. The Intuition – the intuition is the organ of immediate insight. Intuition is the organ used by God or the satanic spirit. God is known through the intuition of man.
Fellowship –This is the organ of fellowship with God or satanic spirits. The role of
meditation. link up with the spirit world through their kundilini.
The Soul consists of :
1. The will - It is the deliberating organ. It is where the power of judgment lies. It makes
decisions whether to do or not to do. Without the will, man would be a machine. E.g. The
car if you start it, though it is not running, its machine will keep on moving till you do not
switch it off. The machine does not have the will to decide anything for itself.
2. The mind - The mind is the thinking organ. It is our intellect, our intelligence, knowledge and everything with mental capacity. Without mind, man would be totally foolish.
3. The emotion - The emotion is the organ of sentiments like love, hatred, joy, sorrow,
jealously etc. without emotion man would be like wood and stone.

The Body consist of :The sense of Sight,Smell,Hearing,Taste and Touch

But if you look at the animals they have only 1)Body and 2) Soul.
Posted by layamerine 7 years ago
layamerine
Well we can see lots of fossils of many animal that got extinct because of man but I did not see any fossiles that shows the changes of one animal to another. These animal got extinct, we can see these things happening now days also, animal getting extinct. But I can not see any animal changing into another. There is no proof of animal changing into another by time. Man is always there and will always be. Plants are there and will always be. If you look at birds group they are off different types. One type gets extinct. Like wise for all animal there where different types some got extinct. As I told you every living things belongs to group(meat eating, herb eating)and they are further grouped etc... show some similarity but in all the living things man alone enjoys the governing part because he is made in the image of God.
Posted by rangersfootballclub 7 years ago
rangersfootballclub
evoultion not happening ? no fatcs ? what about the millions of fossils around the world that are all diffrent and show differnet kinds of animals slowy changing ? can you look at a monkey on how it acts then look at a human and say , they are completely diffrent , we have the same instinicts as they do , we behave like they do , maybe a bit better than they do , but we do.

Two kinds are needed for reproduction because , well how can i put it more simple . We only really need to kinds because itsa scince a man and a women have a baby , the end. What more do you want ? You cannot say , how come i dont have this , or that . Think about it evoultion ( if true , whcih i belive it is ) is always changing , you cannot say just because you cant fly it doesnt exisits , it might take a million years for us to devolp wings , we dont know , look how much we have changed , its belived all animals devolped from the one thing , and all animals are diffrent , just how nature decides to alter things , by chance etc.

If god is real , how come he didnt give you everything you needed to escape natural disasters , and so on , how come he doesnt have your meals ready on a plater , if he truley cared for you , and had the power to make this earth , why wont he make our lifes perfect ?
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