The Instigator
Scyrone
Pro (for)
Winning
41 Points
The Contender
Melvin
Con (against)
Losing
25 Points

Catholicism is disagreeable and offensive.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/23/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,870 times Debate No: 2881
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (18)
Votes (18)

 

Scyrone

Pro

I believe that Catholicism is disagreeable and offensive.

Catholicism is an embarrassment to the Abrahamic religions mostly because of the way they glorify the Pope. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention a Pope figure that can talk to God and create earthly rules and human equations for the Lord. Catholicism rests on the idea that the heads of the Church are the rulers of the religion. It was back in medieval times that the heads of the Catholic Church were the only ones who could read the Bible mostly because of their connection with God. It was this corruption of the Bible that helped create the Pope-organization of gambling, prostitution, and stealing from the poor. I also know of many people who have been raped or harassed sexually by a Catholic priest. It is these people that tend to turn out bad in society.

It also says in the Bible to pray to the Lord your God for forgiveness. Never did it say repent to a mere mortal so he can tell God to forgive you.

It was the Catholics and the Christians whom blamed Marilyn Manson, and geeky kids for the school shootings at Columbine. It is this blasphemy that helps make Catholicism disagreeable and offensive for suppressing speech, being hypocritical, and directly misinterpreting the Bible.

I have more arguments after I rebuttal my opponents opening arguments.
Melvin

Con

First off, I find it offensive that you hate the religion because of some messed up people. Second the Pope is a person who is a symbol to spread the word of the Lord. They talk through the Lord. They help channel the prayers of others, this helps others repent and know that their prayers have been heard. The Pope-organization is against gambling, prostitution, and stealing from the poor, and in fact we beleive in helping the poor, and treating everyone as your neighbor. We beleive in loving in all,helping all, and to do them no wrong. This is why God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, so you would treat others with kindness and respect.

It does say ask the Lord for forgivness of your sins, but this is so they may clean their soul. It also says do as Jesus did. He forgave, he asked for forgiveness, this is all symbolic as well as literal, to ask for forgiveness from all, so you may have another chance.

I also have more, but decided to just fend for myself this round.
Debate Round No. 1
Scyrone

Pro

Firstly, I don't hate religion. I hate certain religions, but Catholicism, Christianity, and Judaism is not the whole of religion, it is only a hypocrisized part of religion.

Secondly, why do you need a symbol to spread the word of the Lord? He told his followers to go out and spread the word, not a single Pope. "Go out into the world and spread the good news," Jesus said to his followers in the Bible. Any follower of god can be considered "symbolic", not just a single figure.

Actually, there are a good number of Popes that did not fit the anti-gambling, anti-prostitution, and anti-poor stealing. Here are a few excerpts from a website explaining some of the evil traits of the Popes:

"The method in which this pope actually got into office deserves to be told. On the death of Liberius (in office: 352-366), the previous pope, there was no consensus among the clergy as to his successor. A faction supported Ursinus, who was one of Liberius' deacons. Damasus was supported by the faction who was previously loyal to the antipope Felix. To consolidate his position and claim to the papacy, Damasus hired a gang of thugs and carried out a three day massacre of Ursinus' supporters. That did not satisfy this heresy-hunting pope. After his consecration as bishop of Rome, his men attacked Ursinus and his remaining supporters who were seeking refuge in the Liberian basilica. As a result of that attack, one hundred and thirty seven supporters of Ursinus were murdered."

"Pope Symmachus (in office 498-514), like Damasus, is recognized by the church as a Saint, partly due to his strong defense of orthodoxy. But this pope was a promiscuous fornicator, although he did have a regular lover, named Conditria. He regularly misused church funds. A synod of Italian bishops was held in the year 502 to discuss charges of fornication and cheating."

"Twentieth century popes may be less immoral than their predecessors but many of the unattractive traits remain. One such example is Pope Pius XII (in office 1939-1958). Pius knew about the Nazi atrocities on the Jews but chose to keep silent about it. The papacy today, as before, showed itself incapable of providing a moral leadership when it was needed most."

http://www.geocities.com...

"This is why God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, so you would treat others with kindness and respect."

So "Thou shall not worship another God or idol" is a way we should treat others? They were selfish laws created by your oh-so "awesome" Jehovah so he could keep his people (whom he banned to a desert for 40 years) in line with his owns needs and wishes.

"It does say ask the Lord for forgivness of your sins, but this is so they may clean their soul. It also says do as Jesus did. He forgave, he asked for forgiveness, this is all symbolic as well as literal, to ask for forgiveness from all, so you may have another chance."

This has nothing to do with the argument. All this shows is a preachy sermon about forgiveness by God, and in no way defeats my argument.

Not only are the Catholics responsible for modern day criticism but also partially the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the start of many witch hunts, which all ended up in blood-shed.
Melvin

Con

Without a symbol it is much harder to spread the word. Though we all are to spread it, with a symbol we are recognized by others and this gets the word out. Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, Priests, all of these help us talk to God and share in our faith.

I read a comment about this debate this person said "How does my being a Catholic hurt you. It is people like you that ridicule and attack people because of their beliefs when they in no way are harming you that lead to intolerance." Never did I say you hate religion. I said it's unfair to me and the other devout Catholics who are good people by hating Catholicism when few have hurt you or anyone you know.

The Ten commandments were not selfish rules made by God(it's disrespectful to me if you say my "oh-so "awesome" Jehovah"). One rule says to respect God. Is that so bad? He was a savior who saved them from slavery from the Egyptians, not someone who banished them to a desert. Also when the Bible says 40 years it doesn't mean 40 years just many years. But besides the one rule you said there are many like, Honour thy father and thy mother, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery(to lie), Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour, Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. Do those seem selfish to you. To me, they sound like good ways to treat others.

When I say "Jesus forgave and asked for forgiveness," I meant to, as you called them, mere mortals.

You once again generalized a people. You said " Not only are the Catholics responsible for modern day criticism but also partially the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the start of many witch hunts, which all ended up in blood-shed." Was it just the Catholics? Or was it the Jews, the Baptist, the Mormon, and the Catholic who did this? Or was it just the Catholics? Generalizations and stereotypes do nothing but assume that there is one like it, it must be them all.
Debate Round No. 2
Scyrone

Pro

"Without a symbol it is much harder to spread the word. Though we all are to spread it, with a symbol we are recognized by others and this gets the word out. Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, Priests, all of these help us talk to God and share in our faith."

To Christians the symbol is God. They seem to be better off than the Catholics.

"I said it's unfair to me and the other devout Catholics who are good people by hating Catholicism when few have hurt you or anyone you know."

Who said I hate Catholics? I think they are disagreeable (it doesn't make sense) and is offensive (offends many people).

"it's disrespectful to me if you say my "oh-so "awesome" Jehovah""

And you don't explain why. You find half the things I say offensive but you have never explained why. Why? Because it has absolutely nothing to do with the debate. We aren't talking about what me saying is offensive, we are talking about why Catholicism is and is not offensive. Get on with it.

"says to respect God"
"The Ten commandments were not selfish rules made by God"

Wow.

"Also when the Bible says 40 years it doesn't mean 40 years just many years."

No, it means 40 years. It is just long enough to take off a generation, which is what God wanted and what the adult Israelites had to do.

"Honor thy father and thy mother"

There can be little exceptions, but I am sure many societies before Christianity had this rule in place, and therefore do not come from Catholicism.

"Thou shalt not kill"

Your religion of course ignored this one MANY MANY times.

"Thou shalt not commit adultery"

This one too, with some little boys might I add.

You might like this: http://www.bishop-accountability.org...

Basically showing how many Catholic Priests have "sexual" accusations against them (and approved by the appropriate governments). Just so you don't have to go through the report, it is 4,392.

"Thou shalt not steal"

Catholics have stolen before. Buddhism came before Catholicism and Christianity; their books were written before the Godzi:

""...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353

Christianity must have been desperate to steal from Buddha.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour"

http://orichardcraigo.wordpress.com...

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's"

I think we have already established this in stealing and adultery.

"Do those seem selfish to you. To me, they sound like good ways to treat others."

Okay a few are selfish and useless, but they do seem like good ways to treat others . . . but then again, Catholics have disobeyed every one of them except for the one saying "respect God", and even that is controversial.

"Or was it the Jews, the Baptist, the Mormon, and the Catholic who did this? Or was it just the Catholics?"

Just the Catholics and the Christians. In the Crusades the Muslims were defending themselves from your attack. Mormons? They weren't around at that time :D Baptist is Christian. And the Jews have nothing to do with it. They don't even completely agree with you.

"Generalizations and stereotypes do nothing but assume that there is one like it, it must be them all."

But that is what Catholicism is, a generalized sect of Christianity. It is a specific viewpoint to the Bible with beliefs that are specific to Catholicism. All Catholics are meant to be the same by the rules they follow and do. That is why I generalize. Now if we were talking about Christianity then that is a different story. But we are not.

Well, my opponent hasn't made any clear cut answer to why Catholicism is NOT disagreeable and offensive. All he has done is reply to my points. Maybe he will do so in the closing arguments (let's hope so to make it at least a more interesting debate).

In general this is why I think Catholicism is disagreeable and offensive:

1. General acceptance of disrespect towards the Ten Commandments. (disagreeable)
2. Misinterpretation of the Bible. (disagreeable)
3. The Crusades. (offensive to Muslims)
4. The Witch Trials. (offensive to everyone who was blamed as a witch)
5. The Inquisition. (offended critics of the Catholic Church)
6. The rape and sexual accusations (backed by the governments and the Catholic Church) against Catholic Priests (4,392 of them). Including women and boys. (offensive and disagreeable, clearly)
7. General disrespect the Popes had to society throughout history (disagreeable and offensive)

Not much from my opponent on these points to back up his points. He had no sources either.

Thanks for the debate, Melvin. And I thank whoever watched this for following it, remember to vote by debate, not by opinion.
Melvin

Con

First off, Catholics are Cristians to. God is our symbol, and just like the Christians we have preists, and ministers who are "symbols" of our faith.

If you want to know why it's disrespectful to me if you say "my "oh-so "awesome" Jehovah", it's because you are insulting Christ. The base of all CHRISTians including you. To me 'respecting God' is important, and that includes not insulting him. You see this is part of my faith and the Ten Commandments.

Once again 40 years does not mean 40 years. It means many years. Either way 40 years in a desert is better than a lifetime of slavery. God sent Mosses to free them. He is a savior. It may not originally come from Catholism but they are rules a Catholic should follow, it's called ethics. Priests, Popes, Bishops, whatever they are still human, therefore not perfect. Mormons, Catholics none are perfect. There are many times where people from all religions have disobeyed the word of the Lord, even if they didn't get the publicity. Though yes some preists made a mistake most of them are good honest people. I don't find an entire religion offensive because humans did what humans do, they make mistakes. The only one perfect is God. Christ the Almighty. Maker of Heaven and Earth.

Finally this is why I think Catholism is not disagreeable or offensive:

1. The Catholic faith is based off Jesus' example to love everyone, even your enemy.
2. The majority of the people are good and honest, this is thanks to our ethics based off the Ten Commandments.
3. Their ability to repent after making the mistakes every human makes.
4. The strength of our faith. That doesn't break no matter what God puts us through. As Mother Theresa said, " I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish He didn't trust me so much." She's saying she knows God will get her through everything, even if it's not easy.

Please do voye only on the debate not the opinion. Thankyou.
Debate Round No. 3
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by John_Quincy_Adams 8 years ago
John_Quincy_Adams
Fun Catholic school memory; I made the mistake of voicing my opinion that the host was only symbolic and not actually transubstantiation. Five minutes later I was up against a wall in the hall whilst my princiPAL, teacher, and priest fired off extremely aggressive questions until I assured them that I was wrong about it and they were right. Not really pertinent to the conversation, but I find it amusing. I'd like to thank them for helping me become the Godless Phillistene I am today
Posted by Scyrone 8 years ago
Scyrone
Fred, it does not have anything to do with new or old ideas. Any idea deserves no respect. Everything should be put to doubt and questioned.
Posted by sleepiB 8 years ago
sleepiB
New or old has nothing to do with it, what matters is if the idea provides reliable predictive insight, and even then, it expires the second a more accurate or precise model is tested.
Posted by PreacherFred 8 years ago
PreacherFred
"ideas do not deserve respect" ?!

There would be no progress without new ideas.
Posted by Scyrone 8 years ago
Scyrone
Thank you, sleepiB.

I should also clarify. I do not think religion is offensive. Religion for me is a very broad term. Religion includes all beliefs to me that could have a set of morals, values, standards, and systems to go about certain things.
Posted by sleepiB 8 years ago
sleepiB
I should clarify, I find virtually all superstition harmful and offensive, not just Christianity. I do suspect calling religion superstition will offend people, but ideas do not deserve respect. Ideas deserve criticism, and people are juvenile to get offended over an honest assessment of merit.
Posted by sleepiB 8 years ago
sleepiB
The Christian tradition in general is offensive, why would catholicism be any different?
Posted by Pride_of_Scotland 8 years ago
Pride_of_Scotland
Well excuse me, mate. My opinion is that your argument is offensive to me and all Catholics. And because of that, I voted for Melvin, who I believe presented a better argument. If you think that warrants me being kicked off, well, that's your prerogative. So it's a sort of combination voting for me.

If ya don't like it, well, I don't much care.
Posted by Scyrone 8 years ago
Scyrone
"I must vote for Melvin, because your assumptions that all bishops and priests are molestors is very offensive to me."

First, your not voting on the debate, your voting on opinion.

Second, I didn't say all. I said 4,392. Next time read the whole debate.

I think people like this should be kicked off of here.
Posted by Pride_of_Scotland 8 years ago
Pride_of_Scotland
I must vote for Melvin, because your assumptions that all bishops and priests are molestors is very offensive to me.
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