The Instigator
WilliamBlackstone
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Pro (for)
Winning
34 Points

Catholicism

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/13/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,894 times Debate No: 31238
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (35)
Votes (7)

 

WilliamBlackstone

Con

Catholicism is a perverse legacy of oriental witchcraft and neo-pagan quasi-Christianity all fused together through the bringing together of Baylonish pagan worship as if it is Christian, when, in fact, the Christian component is drowned and extinguished in the pagan, demonic element. Truly, there is nothing here that the Lord Christ is proud of. In fact, He would admonish all of us to run as fast as we can away from such vomit and filth. So why the adoring public lovefest with this abomination?
AlwaysMoreThanYou

Pro

Introduction

As the preeminent fundamentalist Catholic of the site, I feel compelled to take the position as 'Pro' in this debate, in order that my opponent (who is, by all accounts, a heretic of the most foul sort) might be debunked.

As this topic is expansive, I feel no obligation to provide an affirmative case of any sort, as to do so would be an insurmountabe task. For this reason, I charge my opponent with the burden of proof.

Rebuttals

Unfortunately, it appears that my opponent would prefer to make unsubstantiated assertions rather than engage in any sort of meaningful argumentation.

Contention 1. Catholicism is a perverse legacy of oriental witchcraft and neo-pagan quasi-Christianity all fused together through the bringing together of Baylonish pagan worship as if it is Christian, when, in fact, the Christian component is drowned and extinguished in the pagan, demonic element.

Reply to Contention 1. I am hardly surprised to hear such incoherent ramblings from a psuedo-Christian heretic. However, as no evidence has been supplied to support this, there is no reason to credit it to any degree. 'That which can be asserted without evidence...'

Contention 2. Truly, there is nothing here that the Lord Christ is proud of. In fact, He would admonish all of us to run as fast as we can away from such vomit and filth.

Reply to Contention 2. False. As a side-note, it is of the greatest arrogance for my opponent to claim to know the mind of Jesus.

Conclusion

There isn't much point in making a real response, given the severe dearth of support for my opponent's arguments so far. I pray that he make a better argument next round.
Debate Round No. 1
WilliamBlackstone

Con

Welly welly welly welly welly welly well! A nice young little altar boy has challenged me. He thinks that anyone who attacks catholicism is a heretic. I will allow him to take the podium to explain transubstantiation, honestly, to the public. I have a degree in the Classics, that means I studied 5th century Attic Greek for two years, and Latin for the same, I did practical archaeology in Roman Britain in the 1980's on Nero's fort the Lunt at Baginton, Coventry, and have studied literature, modern English and comparative literature, as well as Greek and Roman history with a specialty in Roman. I have an honours B.A. from McMaster University, which was formerly a Divinity College of Toronto. What qualifications do you bring to the table, sonny boy? I used to be a Catholic until the age of 12. It is a creepy, vile religion cloaked in secrecy, and strange customs. I will be happy to come back here and give you more tidbits, but first, explain transubstantiation to the public, where the wine in the cup becomes, literally, the blood of Christ, and how you drink it. And do a good, honest job, cause I will be back for more.
AlwaysMoreThanYou

Pro

Introduction

As my opponent does not appear to have put significant effort into organizing his round, I will attempt to utilize a different format to best respond.

Rebuttals

Con writes Welly welly welly welly welly welly well!

I reply Well well well well well well welly!

Con writes A nice young little altar boy has challenged me. He thinks that anyone who attacks catholicism is a heretic.

I reply I haven't been an altar boy for over a year now, and you just happen to be a heretic. It's not necessarily related to your attack on Catholicism.

Con writes What qualifications do you bring to the table, sonny boy?

I reply I am a Doctorates in Sacred Theology and Canon Law from the Pontifical University of West America. I have been Patriarch of DDO for over a year (and I'll thank my opponent to address me with the correct style of 'His Beatitude' or 'Your Beatitude'). In addition, I have been recognized by the International Community for Latin and Greek as the greatest expert on ancient languages alive today. Furthermore, I have PhDs in Nuclear Botany and Reckoner Lore which I obtained from Oxbridge University. Because of my great qualifications, everyone ought to believe whatever I say.

Con writes It is a creepy, vile religion cloaked in secrecy, and strange customs.

I reply It would appear that my opponent considers 'plastered all over the internet' to be 'cloaked in secrecy'.

Con writes I will be happy to come back here and give you more tidbits, but first, explain transubstantiation to the public, where the wine in the cup becomes, literally, the blood of Christ, and how you drink it.

I reply Not much to say. Wine becomes blood. Bread becomes flesh. It's pretty simple (if incredible).

'If anyone says that in the sacred and, holy sacrament of the Eucharist the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular change of the whole substance of the bread into the body and the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the appearances only of bread and wine remaining, which change the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be anathema.' - Council of Trent [1]

'I answer that, Some have held that the substance of the bread and wine remains in this sacrament after the consecration. But this opinion cannot stand: first of all, because by such an opinion the truth of this sacrament is destroyed, to which it belongs that Christ's true body exists in this sacrament; which indeed was not there before the consecration.' - St. Thomas Aquinas [2]

Conclusion

I have degrees, therefore you should believe me.

Sources:
1. http://www.ewtn.com...
2. http://www.newadvent.org...
Debate Round No. 2
WilliamBlackstone

Con

My oppononent is sarcastic, he does not have degrees, but if you are a salt-of-the-earth type you may simply read and conclude that he is a liar. Truly, he is both. This is O.K as my final salvo will maybe not silence him (dogmatic Catholics will continue eating the unclean carcase long after it has rotted and been proven poisonous), but it will definitely bring to bear the correct biblical approach to understanding why Catholicism is idolatrous, perverse, un-Christian, and therefore ungodly, and why anyone who wants to follow and love the Father, and his Christ, must depart from this man-made oriental form of sorcery.

Here I go, so watch out, cause you're gonna get run over

First, let us turn to the ultimate platform for comparison, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. Why there first? Because here is the first systematic icon in God's transmission of divine law as intened for man. All His dealings prior to Moses were with select individuals, most of them part of a single lineage whose dna had not been tampered with by the Nephilim. Through that pure Sethic line down to Noah, and ultimately Abraham, God was to begin his rescue mission for man. And since man was by now in complete darkness when it came to understanding divine nature and human nature and their interplay, man had to be reminded. Hence the TEN COMMANDMENT. I will show briefly how Cahtholicism violates the most imortant of these, the first 4.

1. I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, you shall have no other gods before me.

The Catholics for 1700 years have esteemed Miriam, the mother of Jesus, thy even turned her into the Mother of God, and they worship her, pray to her, not only to her, but to statues of her (2. Thou shalt make no graven image of anything that is in the earth, above or below it, to bow down and worship it.) And so they do, not to the Queen of Heaven alone, who started out a mere sinner like me and like anybody else, but all the other saints that have been elevated to positions of godhood. Catholics the world over pray to saints, bow before their likenesses, and light candles to them, as if to a god. Clearly, Cahtolicism has made all who practise such violators of the most important commandments dealing with the sanctity, the holiness, and the onliness (God alone) of God. But wait, there is more.

3. Do no take the name of your Lord in vain. Really? We are not talking about use of things like goddamn or Jesu as an expletive instead of spoken in reverence, but here is what is referred to as righ behaviour which brings a good report to the name of the Lord. So, altar boy, when your protected pedophiles among you bugger and abuse the young, and the remedy is to demote and send off to remoter and remoter buggerships instead, how does this all make God whom you claime to serve look? This commandment deals with righteousness being upheld so that the name of the Lord is spread in fame and in cleanliness, so that He is hallowed, and now besmirched with the faithful's bad actions. The Vatican has many ugly things to hid in that regard, like helping the Nazis get passports so their passage out of Europe could be smoother, not to mention that the whole idea of camps was planned and perfected largely by those in Rome, to be used first in South America in the late 1800s. And let's not forget the 400 yreatr long Inquisition, where Christians' property was confisctaed and they were tried and murdere as heretics or witches so that Mama in Purple could increase her holdings. Does collaborating with Franco, Hitler and Mussolini sound like taking the Lord's name in vain? It sure does to me.

4. Honour the sabbath, and keep it holy. Well, how can you keep it holy when you have moved it ahead by one day? All observant Jews and early Christians kept the actual sabbath, the one that begins sundown Friday and ends sundown Saturday. A Catholic Council centuries ago had the bright idea to move to Sunday, and thereby violates and makes any observance of it null and void because the timing is presumptuously wrong. You cannot honour what you cannot keep. Daniel seems to have said "and the king shall even think to change the times and the laws." This elusive king has been thought to be Antiochus Epiphanes, or some future Antichrist of sorts, but it appears that the scripture has already come to fruition in how the Roman Church changed all the simplicity of the gospel to suit its own oriental needs. You see, Sunday worship lines up wil SOL, the sun, which is what Egyptians and Babylonians before them worshipped. Catholicism pays lip service to Jesus, but he is only one of many worshipped individuals, including Mary, hosts of saints, the Sun, pagan customs of transubstantiation. Even the clown costumes that the high clergy wear are reminiscent of Babylonian and Egyptian priests. They are the furthest thing from the modesty of a life dedicated to Christ. The tso-part hat that the Pope wears symbplizes that he is in charge of both realms of lower and upper Egypt. The Pharaoh of the day that had both hats ruled both spheres, as often the kingdom was divided. The splendour of such display is arrogance, of the mosy high order. It says, look at me, I am a Queen, and I shall never lack anything, therefore in one day her flesh shall be burned with fire. And all that delighed you shall be found no more.

I could go on, the main point is that if the first four commandments are in violation, and they be the most important of the commandments, dealing with God to man, then how possibly can Catholicism behave rightly toward man (homosexuality, predatory sex on minors, molestation of children, perverse religious practices like transubstantiation.) On a note, the last supper was supposed to be remembered. In other words, when friends and family of believers gatehr for a meal, once in a while, when they feel like doing it, reenact the simple breaking of bread, and drinking of wine, while the red letters of the gospel are read out loud by someone, as a token of remembrance. Nobody wants to see a magic trick of bread becoming flesh and wine becoming blood. Have you ever heard of symbolism? sonny boy?

I don't want to carry on further, because if you examine the final commandments of man-man behaviour, just imagine that you have to interact with an overarching Catholic system while trying to love your neigbour properly. Since your religious system dishonours God to the point that it is utterly vile and putrid, how then can it help you in your daily life to relate to one another properly? What I am saying is that if the most important commandments are violated, flagrantly, that system can only condemn you the closer you get to it. That is why I said to run away now!! Don't even look back.
AlwaysMoreThanYou

Pro

Introduction

It seems to me rather poor conduct to introduce completely new arguments in the very last round of the debate, but that's technically not a conduct violation so I suppose I must roll with it.

I apologize that my argument is not as comprehensive as I would have liked, but I had to re-create it from scratch twice due to computer problems.

Rebuttals

Con writes My oppononent is sarcastic, he does not have degrees, but if you are a salt-of-the-earth type you may simply read and conclude that he is a liar. Truly, he is both.

I reply That's pretty rude. I never accused you of being a liar, despite my skepticism.

Con writes thy even turned her into the Mother of God

I reply False. Luke 1:43.

Con writes and they worship her

I reply False. 'The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God.' - CCC 2112

Con writes pray to her, not only to her, but to statues of her

I reply False. No one prays to a statue.

Con writes who started out a mere sinner

I reply False. 'Therefore, far above all the angels and all the saints so wondrously did God endow her with the abundance of all heavenly gifts poured from the treasury of his divinity that this mother, ever absolutely free of all stain of sin, all fair and perfect, would possess that fullness of holy innocence and sanctity than which, under God, one cannot even imagine anything greater, and which, outside of God, no mind can succeed in comprehending fully.' - Ineffabilis Deus

Con writes other saints that have been elevated to positions of godhood

I reply False. Saints are not considered gods. See three responses above.

Con writes as if to a god

I reply As I have already written, it is prohibited to consider saints as gods. My opponent can claim violation of this as much as he likes, but unless he could have provided some legitimate evidence that this is in any way Catholic teaching, then this remains as unsupported as I remain vindicated and successful.

Con writes Does collaborating with Franco, Hitler and Mussolini sound like taking the Lord's name in vain? It sure does to me.

I reply It sounds like an association fallacy to me. <sarcasm>Some Christians take the name of the Lord in vain, therefore Christianity as a whole breaks the second commandment, all hail my brilliant logic.</sarcasm> This has nothing to do with Catholicism.

Con writes All observant Jews and early Christians kept the actual sabbath, the one that begins sundown Friday and ends sundown Saturday.

I reply You'll never be able to find an early Christian who kept the Jewish sabbath, because Christians aren't Jews. Only the Judaizers kept the sabbath, and I doubt you'll even manage to find any of them for the first few hundred years after Christ.

Con writes You see, Sunday worship lines up wil SOL, the sun,

I reply It also lines up with the day Jesus rose from the dead, and as actual early Christians will tell you:

'We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead' - Epistle of Barnabas

'Those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death' - St. Ignatius (Letter to the Magnesians)

Con writes Even the clown costumes that the high clergy wear are reminiscent of Babylonian and Egyptian priests.

I reply Irrelevant.

Con writes Have you ever heard of symbolism?

I reply Have you ever heard of context?

'The Jews and WilliamBlackstone then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”' - John 6:52 (the bolded is an interpolation)

Conclusion

I've skipped large parts of Con's 'argument', since most of it seemed to be irrelevant and oftentimes false ramblings that were of little relevance. Mind that my opponent has failed to source a single thing, so I pretty much just have to take his word for it that what he's saying is even true, which I'm not willing to do when it comes to matters like Catholic teaching that he claims are in contradiction.

'Give your head a shake... RUN, RUN from the lies of protestantism!!!' - Dogknox
Debate Round No. 3
35 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by dont-out-of-line.1 3 years ago
dont-out-of-line.1
As you can see Devient.genie Was rude in what he has said to me I do NOT appreciate what he has said. I would like to know why he has said this about me and what gives him the right to say that about me in the first place.
Posted by dont-out-of-line.1 3 years ago
dont-out-of-line.1
I'm sorry but that was rude I do not touch little boys... I'm not a pervert. I am now done with this goodbye.
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
dont-touch-little-boys-perverted-religious-person,

So to day that because I do not pray to your god means I pray to your devil?
I hope to hear your answer. No harsh feelings ever I love to here your opinion.
Love yours truly

The piece of sheet pope said those words, Not me, the pope is a POS loser and so are his 1.2 billion brainwashed lunatic followers :)

There are no loop holes in the truth, only in childish little kid brained religion.

The bible is one big hole and one big POS brainwash tool that affects weak minded and insecure losers :)
Posted by dont-out-of-line.1 3 years ago
dont-out-of-line.1
I'm going to find that one lop hole in your words. I do not pray to your devil I pray to my lord and lady. In the Wiccans we do not have a devil or hell. So to day that because I do not pray to your god means I pray to your devil?
I hope to hear your answer. No harsh feelings ever I love to here your opinion.
Love yours truly
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
Brainwashed reaction to pope francis:

I like him, he displays such humility:)

Reality:

"He who does not pray to the lord prays to the devil"

We had to wait no longer than his very first Mass as Pope Francis, to hear this reminder of why religions leave a trial of division and hatred around the world. What a way to kick-start his campaign, with such a beautiful message of love and tolerance to the youth of his Church.

Lesson Learned:

Kids, you know those children with Buddhist parents who live up the road? They're going to hell with the devil.
Those kids in your class from Muslim families? Going to hell with the devil.
Those kids at soccer with atheist parents? You guessed it, they're gong to hell with the devil.

We're right, everyone else is wrong, and in fact they're so wrong...they're going to hell with the devil

So much for humility :)

Did you know the pope actually believes the reason for spiders that eat bats, is because those spiders were created by a being that is concerned with what humans do naked.

I even heard that the pope really thinks that kittens, were created by a being that can convict humans of thought crimes such as lust.

Im pretty sure the pope thinks that the reason for goldfish is concerned with when, where, why and how humans ejaculate.

I'd be willing to bet the pope thinks the reason for giraffes, is also concerned with what days you hold holy in its honor.

He may also believe that the reason for plankton and trees, will send two 16 yr old girls that kiss to eternal torment :)

Delusional 10:56--If millions of people want to believe the reason for the sub atomic world is homophobic, then by all means we should deny equal rights to marriage :)

Religious humans are the heaviest ball and chain mankind drags on its way to a higher standard.

Well played christian nation, well played :)
Posted by dont-out-of-line.1 3 years ago
dont-out-of-line.1
I try to see every side of things. And thank you I love to here peoples opinions.
Posted by WilliamBlackstone 3 years ago
WilliamBlackstone
Isn't it beautiful and ironic that the witch, the one who practises things that would have cost him his life in the camp of Moses, is the most reasonable one of us all?
Posted by dont-out-of-line.1 3 years ago
dont-out-of-line.1
I'm sorry but I dont agree with ether one of you. Sorry. I feel that this was poorly planed on cons part and I feel pro was to aggressive. But I have to say Con to you: Calm down and don't say you "hate" something because you wont be able to take it back. Pro: Please dont call people heretic. Can't we all just get along?
Posted by dont-out-of-line.1 3 years ago
dont-out-of-line.1
I don't fine this very kind of the pro he is rude to everyone who does not believe with what he believes in so to him it comes off as I AM ALL POWERFUL BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE but thats just me and I do Witchcraft aka Wiccan.
Posted by TrasguTravieso 3 years ago
TrasguTravieso
Their own version? Oh! You mean the original BEFORE the heretics started ripping out pages they didn't like.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by philochristos 3 years ago
philochristos
WilliamBlackstoneAlwaysMoreThanYouTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro has triumphed over the ravings of a heretic. For the first couple of rounds, Pro responded with just the right amount of absurdity to match the absurdity coming from Con. Con waited until the last round to make any real arguments. Most of those arguments consisted of mere assertions, but Pro responded with authoritative sources. Pro totally dominated this debate.
Vote Placed by wiploc 3 years ago
wiploc
WilliamBlackstoneAlwaysMoreThanYouTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.
Vote Placed by Lizard 3 years ago
Lizard
WilliamBlackstoneAlwaysMoreThanYouTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: This debate was a back and forth of you two saying "I'm more Christian than you", "nu-uh" rinse and repeat. This was Con's debate, so he should have backed his arguments with more than just opinion, and at least Pro was a little entertaining so i'm giving him conduct.
Vote Placed by Nur-Ab-Sal 3 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
WilliamBlackstoneAlwaysMoreThanYouTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I have to say that the altar boy looks like a nice, attractive genius. But besides that, he clearly defeated Con's nonsensical ramblings concerning the 'pagan' origins of Catholicism and lack of 'explanation' for transubstantiation, both of which Pro countered with well thought-out responses. Usually, I'd take conduct points from Con for being so ridiculously condescending, but it was so amusing it approached comedic genius. Especially that line from a Clockwork Orange. Anyway, altar boy gets my points.
Vote Placed by TrasguTravieso 3 years ago
TrasguTravieso
WilliamBlackstoneAlwaysMoreThanYouTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: His Beatitude the Patriarch of DDO has done a fine job as ever in defending the one true faith. Conduct to Pro due to the heretic's vile tactic of placing all arguments in the final round, Arguments Pro because heresy cannot withstand the light of truth. Sources Pro because His Holines Bl. John Paul II said the Cathechism a sure guide to the faith whereas base assertions against the Bride of Christ deserve only to be banned and their writers declared anathema until such a moment as they confess their sin against the one true faith and embrace the fullness of truth in our One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Vote Placed by 1Historygenius 3 years ago
1Historygenius
WilliamBlackstoneAlwaysMoreThanYouTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pretty much the same as Crypto. Con sucked at conduct and provided no sources. Pro's arguments stood in the end.
Vote Placed by xXCryptoXx 3 years ago
xXCryptoXx
WilliamBlackstoneAlwaysMoreThanYouTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con definitely loses conduct for insults, ramblings, and presenting all of his arguments in the final round. refuted 2 out of the 3 arguments Con presented in the fin round, and pro was the only one to list sources.