The Instigator
LifeMeansGodIsGood
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
RomanCatholic
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Catholics are not Christians

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
RomanCatholic
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/21/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 582 times Debate No: 62054
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (5)

 

LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

A real Christian is saved from Hell now and has eternal life now. Cathoics hope to be saved, but they are not saved now and they do not have eternal life now so they are not Christians now. I welcome my opponents explanation of what he thinks makes him a christian. I say He is a Catholic, and not a christian. And if he does not accept this challenge, he is a chicken catholic.
RomanCatholic

Con

Christian- a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)

I live my life for Jesus and according to his word, therefore I am a Christian.
Debate Round No. 1
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

While the meriam-webster definition of "Christian" may be the commonly understood meaning, it is not necessarily what a true Christian is. There are many religions that clain to be Christian. Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be Christian though they consider Jesus to be created and not the Creator. The devil believes in God, and the teachings of Jesus. The devil knows that Jesus's teachings are true. According to the meriam-webster definition, I guess the devil can sey he is a christian. So we have a christian devil and christian catholics.....and christian Jehovah's Witnesses sinse they claim to believe the teachings of Jesus.

It seems the more reliable definition of what a Christian is would be given by Jesus Christ Himself. A real Christian is forgiven and has eternal life now. A real Christian is saved and knows they have eternal life now as promised by Jesus Christ.
Jesus said in John 3:18, "He that believes on him (the son of God, Jesus) is not condemned." Then in Chapter 4 and verse 14, he said "....whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." If my opponent is truly believing and following Jesus, then eternal life is gauranteed to Him because Jesus said He is not condemned and that He gives water that continues into eternal life....never ending now or ever. Further in the book of John, chapter 5, verse 24, Jesus said "..........He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,..........Jesus gaurantees eternal life to those who are saved by Him, and nowhere in the Bible does it say we cannot believe on Him and trust Him.

The Meriam-Webster definition of what a Christian is implies that you can be a Christian but not have eternal life. This is contrary to the words of Jesus Christ who promises eternal life now. My opponent is forbidden from knowing he has eternal life, so He cannot be a true christian.
RomanCatholic

Con

You claimed that a Christian was, according to Jesus:
"He that believes on him" with him being Jesus

So, your definition is basically, "He that believes in Jesus" is a Christian.

My definition of "one who professes belief in Jesus" can also be simplified.

"One who" can become "he that"

"Professes Belief" can become "believes"

Basically, we have the same definition of "He that believes in Jesus"

This would mean that according to your own arguments, using your own definition, Satan is a Christian.

But, what I think what we both truly mean is someone who believes Jesus Christ's message is the truth and uses this truth to live their lives in the way that they see as moral.

I'd also like to argue, that what denomination you are a part of doesn't decide whether or not you go to heaven. Whether or not I am a Christian does not depend on if this Sunday I worship in a Baptist, Episcopal, Catholic, or any other denomination, possibly excluding radicals. Whether or not I am a true Christian depends on my actions. It depends on how much I love God and work to make the world a better place. Such things can only be known by God and will not be deciphered by humans. Therefore, because the Burden of Proof has been placed upon you unless you see yourself as worthy to judge the quality of a human soul, you have lost.
Debate Round No. 2
LifeMeansGodIsGood

Pro

The Devil believes in Jesus. You believe in Jesus. I believe "on" Jesus. There is a difference.

The difference is this. When I realized that I deserve to die and burn in Hell, and saw my need for God's mercy and believed "on" Jesus, I fell down before God and asked Him in Jesus name to save me. I trusted "on" him completely to save me. He saved me. I know He took my sin on Himself when He died in my place and now He is my life. I have eternal life now, Jesus Christ lives in me and I live in Him. You do not get eternal life by believing in Jesus the way you believe. You have to be saved from eternal death to have eternal life. It takes more than for you to believe in Jesus the way you are saying you believe in Him.

In John chapter 11, at the tomb of Lazarus before Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus said to Lazarus' sister, Martha, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and beliieveth in me shall never die. Here, Jesus uses the word "in" rather than on, but He is clearly using it in a way you do not believe in, since the belief Jesus is talking about results in having eternal life now, never dying. I know I have eternal life now, I know I'm going to heaven with my sins forgiven because Jesus took my death and I am never going to die. Jesus said I would never die. I have eternal life. I believe Him. You do not.

l who believe on Him. I believe on Him and I know I have eternal life. I am a Christian. You believe in Him but you ignore and do not believe His Word when He promises eternal life to all who believe on Him. Your belief is not Christian. Your belief is Catholic. Your religion forbids you from believing you have eternal life now and you are forbidden from knowing now that your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven. Catholic belief is not Christian though it claims to be. Catholicism rejects Jesus' Word so it is not Christian. Catholics are not Christians.
RomanCatholic

Con

The first half of your argument was simply you reiterating what I previously said, Our definitions obviously were not the literal translation of a belief in existence but a belief in the truth of his words.

The next half was well, ridiculous. It was filled with false statements that you have no evidence to back up.

"I believe him. You do not"

Really? All you know about me, is that I'm a Roman Catholic. According to your argument, this means that I do not truly follow Jesus.

This is your theory
1. Person is a Roman Catholic hence
2. Person does not believe Christ

Let me give you a few names.

Saint Pope John Paul II
Mother Teresa
All other Popes
St. Francis of Assisi
Hundreds of other saints

So none of the people listed above follow Jesus. None of the people above are Christians.

Using your theory stated above you believe yourself to be above all those holy Roman Catholics.

"Catholic belief is not Christian though it claims to be. Catholicism rejects Jesus' Word so it is not Christian. Catholics are not Christians."

Pretty Bold statements, with absolutely no evidence behind them. You can't make an absurd claim, give no evidence and hope people will believe you.

"You have to be saved from eternal death to have eternal life."

Using this theory, Mary, Mother of God did not go to heaven.

Mary was born without original sin and never sinned. Therefore, she was never under threat of possible eternal death.
using your incorrect theory, this means that she is incapable of making it to heaven.

"Your religion forbids you... from knowing now that your sins are forgiven"

Ever hear of the Sacrament of Reconciliation? It's a belief among Catholics that sins are forgiven.

I am almost out of characters so I will have to end this shorter than I wanted

In the end, I don't care whether or not you think I'm a Christian. I know am.

"If you are humble, nothing will touch you, neither praise nor disgrace, because you know what you are" -Mother Teresa (Source in comments)
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by RomanCatholic 3 years ago
RomanCatholic
Source for Mother Teresa quote

https://www.pinterest.com...

Only had 1 character left at the end
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
LifeMeansGodIsGoodRomanCatholicTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: OMG No True Scotsman! ... For the debate to be won by pro (as admitted by him at the start of R2) we have to dismiss the English language, and move the goalpost to True Scotsmen standards. Con even caught that pro is just babbling, since pro's new definition, is not actually different than the English one. It goes downhill from there, with pro threatening suicide (talking about how he deserves to die, and be forever in hell).
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
LifeMeansGodIsGoodRomanCatholicTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's entire argument is based on a logical fallacy (No try Scotsman). Therefore, arguments to Con.
Vote Placed by TrasguTravieso 3 years ago
TrasguTravieso
LifeMeansGodIsGoodRomanCatholicTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro doubles down on his claims on what Catholicism is and teaches in spite of having a Catholic on the other side telling him what it is his faith is and teaches. Reducing the term Christian to what his own opinion happens to be does not seem reasonable, particularly when others who share his own theological view disagree on his definition of Christianity.
Vote Placed by YYW 3 years ago
YYW
LifeMeansGodIsGoodRomanCatholicTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: CON showed that Catholics are Christians, and PRO made unpersuasive dogmatic arguments that demonstrated he lacked a coherent understanding of what Christendom is.
Vote Placed by Relativist 3 years ago
Relativist
LifeMeansGodIsGoodRomanCatholicTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: The debate is about Catholics yet the debate doubles down into semantics and pros repeated claims of how his opponent isn't a Christian. The personal implications of your opponent is irrelevant and warrants a conduct loss for touching on personal matters.