The Instigator
Con (against)
0 Points
The Contender
Pro (for)
1 Points

Catholics vs Baptists

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/18/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 265 times Debate No: 89841
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)




I am doing a research paper against Catholicism.
28 Watch yourselves and the whole flock, in which the Holy Spirit has placed you as supervisors, to shepherd God"s church, which he obtained with the death of his own Son.[a] 29 I know that, after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and won"t spare the flock. 30 Some of your own people will distort the word in order to lure followers after them. 31 Stay alert! Remember that for three years I constantly and tearfully warned each one of you. I never stopped warning you! 32 Now I entrust you to God and the message of his grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all whom God has made holy. 33 I haven"t craved anyone"s silver, gold, or clothing.(Acts 20:28-33 CEB)
These Bible verses clearly state that there was going to be people from the church trying to persuade other people to do things that go against the scripture yet sound like they go along with it. Paul also says that he didn't crave gold, silver, or clothing from fellow believers unlike the Popes and Priests do(but now they crave different things but they mean the same.).
"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you- who are you to judge your neighbor?" James 4:12

The Bible does not say anything about monks and nuns being any holier than normal people. It actually says the opposite. "Don't let anyone who wants to practice harsh self-denial and worship angels rob you of the prize. They go into detail about what they have seen in visions and have become unjustifiably arrogant by their selfish way of thinking" Colossians 2:18.

"They look like they are wise with this self-made religion and their self-denial by the harsh treatment of the body, but they are no help against indulging in selfish immoral behavior." Colossians 2:23. Doing these things will not save you. A long list of religious rules is still attractive to us today because it requires strong self-discipline and can make a person appear more religious. This is the same problem Jesus was dealing with some 2,000 years ago with the Pharisees and the Jews. Things like Sacred Tradition may seem great and religious, but are actually pointless to your salvation. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith"and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8. God is all about gaining all the glory. He deserves all the glory! He made us and loved us. He gives us all we need although we still pursue sinful lusts and vanities. God would not want man to make a bunch of traditions and ceremonies that take to focus off of what He did by sending His son. If we could save ourselves through indulgences, penance, or sacrament, why would we need God? Why would He send His son to earth to carry our sins on His sinless self?

"Finally, let"s draw near to the throne of favor with confidence so that we can receive mercy and find grace when we need help." Hebrews 4:16. Why do Catholics pray to saints when it it states in this verse that we should boldly approach God?
"There is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, the human Christ Jesus." 1 Tim. 2:5. Again, we don't need those saints who somehow made it to heaven to pray for us. God loves us and wants us to pray to Him. When Jesus was teaching His disciples how to pray to God, He started out saying that we should address God by calling Him "Abba, Father." I don't know about you, but I don't have to get someone else to talk to my father for Him to hear me. "Since you call upon a father who judges all people according to their actions without favoritism..." 1 Peter 1:17.

My final debate is about Mass. What is the point? I've heard Catholics say that that is how they get on God's good side or that's how they get saved. One, Jesus yelled "It is finished!" when He was on the cross. When Catholics have Mass, they believe that the bread and wine turn into flesh and blood. That means every time they have Mass, Jesus has to come down and suffer again; what about "It is finished"? This is just an analogy Jesus used just like all the other ones Catholics skipped and didn't take literal. "First clean the inside of the cup so that the outside of the cup will be clean too." Matt. 23:26. Jesus didn't mean a literal cup. He was in the middle of rebuking Pharisees when He said this. It would be quite silly if Jesus literally meant He wanted them to clean a literal cup.
"You are saved by God's grace... It's not something you did that you can be proud of." Ephesians 2:8,9
"[Catholic Mass] deceived Christians into believing that Christ's saving work on the cross was not finished, and that Christ has to suffer and die for their sins everyday." BiblioPlan Medieval History 2nd book by Rob and Julia Nalle.

With all do respect to all Catholics and Baptists. This is from my interpretation from the scriptures.


The Catholic Mass :
Unlike what my opponent asserts, Jesus is not resacraficed over and over again at mass. It's not a repetitive moment. It is the representation of Christ's Death on the Cross on Calvary. Christ Commanded his Apostles to MAKE PRESENT His sacrifice in remembrance of Him until He comes again. (Luke 22:19; 1Corinthians 11:26).

" 19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

" For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord"s death until he comes. " from the New International Version.
God is not restricted to Earth Time or our Calender... what took place at Calvary and what takes place at Mass is the same moment and the same sacrifice to God. There is NOT a new sacrifice of Jesus at Mass, but His one-time sacrifice at Calvary is MADE PRESENT. It was Jesus who commanded His sacrifice be made present until He comes again. He said, "DO THIS..."

It's interesting to point out that the Early Church Fathers who took control after the Apostles Died out...... believed this.
St Ignatius :
" Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead. "

" St. Justin Martyr, one of the earliest Christian apologists, writing around 148AD wrote,
"but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God"s Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus. "

" And, St. Irenaeus, around 180AD wrote,
[Christ] has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own Blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own Body, from which he gives increase to our bodies. "

2. There is one Mediator between God and Man and that is Christ Jesus. But asking one person to pray for you in no way violates Christ"s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19"20).

The intercession of fellow Christians"which is what the saints in heaven are"also clearly does not interfere with Christ"s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1"4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ"s role as mediator.

3. James 2:24 is remarkably clear: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." So what the heck is St Paul talking about ? When the Apostle Paul wrote about the Faith and Works thing in Espheisians, he was talking about a Group of People called the "Judaizers." These heretics taught that belief in Christ and obedience to the New Covenant was not enough to be saved. A man also had to keep the Mosaic Law (which, according to Hebrews 7:11-12, has been superseded in Christ) and be circumcised in order to be saved (cf. Acts 15:1-2). So that is what Paul is talking about in Esphesians.....

Paul made very clear in Romans 2:6-8 that good works are necessary for attaining eternal life, at least for those capable of performing them: "For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury."

Christ said in Matthew 19:17-19, : ". . . If you would enter life, keep the commandments . . . You shall not kill, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

he works that justify us"as we saw in Romans 2:6-11 and James 2:24"are works done in Christ. Indeed, in Romans 2:4, before Paul even begins to talk about the works we must do to be saved, he says, "Knowest thou not, that the benignity of God leadeth thee to penance" (Douay-Rheims). It is only God"s goodness that leads us to repentance so that we can perform good works.

Oh yeah.... there is nothing in Catholic Church teaching that teaches Monks and Nuns are holier than other people at all.

"There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you- who are you to judge your neighbor?" James 4:12

" Nevertheless, the emperor Decius (249-251 AD), one of the harshest persecutors of the early Christian Church, made the following remark, "I would far rather receive news of a rival to the throne than of another bishop of Rome." Decius said this after he had executed Pope Fabian in 250 AD. "

" Matthew 16:13-19 well: " And so I say to you, you are Peter [Rock], and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Debate Round No. 1


Hellowance forfeited this round.


My opponent has forfeited...... But it's fine.
Debate Round No. 2


Hellowance forfeited this round.


Debate Round No. 3


Hellowance forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


Hellowance forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by hutch976 5 months ago
Look up "The Lambs Supper" by Scott Hahn, he addresses with in depth scriptural exploration the answer to what Jesus meant by "It is finished".

He had graduate degrees in Reformed Theologies.
Posted by 6 months ago
It's fine !
Posted by Hellowance 6 months ago
I totally forgot about this debate. I did not mean to forfeit. I have been super busy with all of my end of the year school assignments.
Posted by dsjpk5 6 months ago
Well that would be a short debate. But that's not really a debate topic. You'd want to take a stand.
Posted by 6 months ago
If I were to accept this debate....... Can you define what the terms are going to be ? What topic, What Sources..........
Posted by Hellowance 6 months ago
I guess if I had to narrow it down, it would be: Why do Catholics pray to Saints bow down at relics?
Posted by mangolife23 6 months ago
Posted by dsjpk5 6 months ago
I'd possibly be interested in debating you if you narrowed it down. There's not enough space to properly debate all those topics. Pick one.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 5 months ago
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff many times, so conduct to Pro.