The Instigator
DebateSpirit
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
moonshine311111
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Catholicsm fits with the Bible?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/12/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,423 times Debate No: 9473
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)

 

DebateSpirit

Con

I fail to see how Catholicism can fit with the teachings with the Bible, which are the Catholic dogmas, the Catholic teachings, the worship of Mary...

Therefore I believe Catholicism is not created by Jesus, and not the right religion that fit with the Bible both Old and New Testament.
moonshine311111

Pro

I will post my arguements as follows:
the 10 commandments
Jesus

10 commandments: 1." I am the Lord your God" - catholics believe in the lord and they worship him. They pray to him and they love him. I know , ive been to a catholic church twice.
2."You shall not make for yourself an idol" - catholics dont "worship" mary or the saints, they acknowledge them for their good works, nothing more, nothing less.
3."You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God" - I'm friends with 5 catholics and not once have i heard the lords name in vein come out of their mouths'.
4."Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy" - catholics go to church on Sunday's
5."Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy" - every religion believes this
6."You shall not murder" - catholics have the story of cane and able. "If anyone slew a person – be it for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people; and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." that is a piece of text from a catholic bible.(and no that's not a contradiction im just saying the catholics run on the original "untouched" bible).
7."You shall not commit adultery" - ""Have you not read, that he who made man from the beginning, made them male and female? And he said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh" again text from the catholic bible.
8."You shall not steal"- every religion believes this.
9."You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"- aka dont lie. catholics are the most honest people I know.
10."You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor"- again all religions believe this.

Jesus: "The Catholic beliefs are centered on Jesus' teachings, actions and life. The New Testament in the Bible is about Jesus and the apostles. The concept of the Trinity - God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is at the core of the Catholic faith. The Holy Spirit is the person that was left for the people on Earth when Jesus went back to Heaven. This Holy Spirit is found in any baptized person. Being an extension of Jesus, the Holy Spirit is always there for the believers."

"The Roman Catholic Church is the largest Christian church that has an Episcopal hierarchy with the Pope as the leading figure. The word 'catholic' indicates accordance with totality or keeping with the whole. The Catholic religion is based on the dogma that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he suffered for the sins of the mankind and He was resurrected after being crucified. This fundamental difference is brought to the fore by the open display of the crucifix and other means of idolatry. Other Christians display cross as a symbol of their religious doctrine whilst the Catholics sport icons of Mary along with Christ. The Catholics believe that Jesus was conceived by Mary, the Ever Virgin and that the Eucharist is Jesus. When Jesus sat at the Last Supper, he told the apostles to take His body to live forever. The catholic Mass is focused around the Eucharist. Good Friday, the day of penance almost at the end of the lent season signifies the day on which Christ was crucified. The Friday on which Christ was crucified assumes greater significance earning the epithet - "Good Friday" as it portends the fundamental dogma of Christianity, the life and crucifixion of Christ and the resurrection from the death signifying the everlasting lives of the believers."

Easter is an important day for all Catholics as it is the day that they celebrate the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. It is celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the spring solstice. The Easter day holds special significance since the Christian theology is centered around the resurrection of Christ and his relationship to mankind."
Debate Round No. 1
DebateSpirit

Con

Thank you for my opponent new argument:

First of all, let me say that my opponent arguments are all just naturalistic fallacy, by stating that the Catholics obey the 10 commandments, he had deprived us all from the truth that Catholicism is, in fact, not fitting with Christianity, and it's my responsibility to prove it.

"1." I am the Lord your God" - catholics believe in the lord and they worship him. They pray to him and they love him. I know , ive been to a catholic church twice."
_ The fact that they love God and worship God alone does not necessary, but how you worship God, I can say that "The Lord is my God." but worship Him by carve a golden calf and worship it like the Israelite did (Exodus 23:4), I can believe the golden calf was God that had given me the salvation, the same God of Abraham, of Joseph... But because my way of worshiping is wrong, God will condemns me like other non-believers.

2."You shall not make for yourself an idol" - catholics dont "worship" mary or the saints, they acknowledge them for their good works, nothing more, nothing less.
_ The Christian doctrines and dogmas believe that praying is worshiping, Luke 2:36-38 is an example, praising God, sing Hymnals also an example of worshiping(Colossians 3:16, Psalm 4:1...), we can call it as "acknowledge", but as far as praying and praising, it's not biblical. For an instance, I acknowledge Buddha good teachings about good deeds and helping and loving others, but I don't pray to Him or sing about Him, acknowledge does not mean that we pray to or praise to as a god or God.

3."You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God" - I'm friends with 5 catholics and not once have i heard the lords name in vein come out of their mouths'.
_ The Rabbi in the New Testament I believe have never used the Lord's name in vain, but in fact Jesus still rebuke them, why? You can answer this.

4."Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy" - catholics go to church on Sunday's
_ Jesus said: "Not everybody who shout: "O Lord, O Lord can go to heaven.", we all had misunderstood and believe that go to church alone can give you salvation, but it actually not. Catholics go to church on Sunday and their religion is fits with Christianity is irrelevant. It not base on do they go to church but rather how do they worship in that church which I had provided in my 1st statement. (The fact that every religions believe this is just another Argumentum ad numerum, the number had no weight in this debate, most of the religions might be wrong.)

6."You shall not murder" - catholics have the story of cane and able. "If anyone slew a person – be it for murder or for spreading mischief in the land – it would be as if he slew the whole people; and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." that is a piece of text from a catholic bible.(and no that's not a contradiction im just saying the catholics run on the original "untouched" bible).
_ From the dawn of civilization, we human know that killing is bad, all religions, from the ancient religions to the religions we have right now also support that killing is in fact unethical. All of the world's government, we believe that murdering is extremely illegal. But does that support that Catholicism is a branch of Christianity? It's really easy to see that.

7."You shall not commit adultery" - ""Have you not read, that he who made man from the beginning, made them male and female? And he said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh" again text from the catholic bible.
_I don't see the point of this text.

8."You shall not steal"- every religion believes this.
_Every religions are not all qualified as Christianity.

"Jesus: "The Catholic beliefs are centered on Jesus' teachings, actions and life. The New Testament in the Bible is about Jesus and the apostles. The concept of the Trinity - God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is at the core of the Catholic faith. The Holy Spirit is the person that was left for the people on Earth when Jesus went back to Heaven. This Holy Spirit is found in any baptized person. Being an extension of Jesus, the Holy Spirit is always there for the believers."

Catholicism also believe in the wrongful dogmas such as:
_ The Virgin Mary is the mediator of God which help us transfer our prayers to God.
_The Pope has the power in the church that can give the title "saint" to anybody and also can interpret the Bible anyway, because he believes that his interpretation is "God will."

"The Roman Catholic Church is the largest Christian church that has an Episcopal hierarchy with the Pope as the leading figure. The word 'catholic' indicates accordance with totality or keeping with the whole. The Catholic religion is based on the dogma that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he suffered for the sins of the mankind and He was resurrected after being crucified. This fundamental difference is brought to the fore by the open display of the crucifix and other means of idolatry. Other Christians display cross as a symbol of their religious doctrine whilst the Catholics sport icons of Mary along with Christ. The Catholics believe that Jesus was conceived by Mary, the Ever Virgin and that the Eucharist is Jesus. When Jesus sat at the Last Supper, he told the apostles to take His body to live forever. The catholic Mass is focused around the Eucharist. Good Friday, the day of penance almost at the end of the lent season signifies the day on which Christ was crucified. The Friday on which Christ was crucified assumes greater significance earning the epithet - "Good Friday" as it portends the fundamental dogma of Christianity, the life and crucifixion of Christ and the resurrection from the death signifying the everlasting lives of the believers."

Easter is an important day for all Catholics as it is the day that they celebrate the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. It is celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the spring solstice. The Easter day holds special significance since the Christian theology is centered around the resurrection of Christ and his relationship to mankind."

Another Argumentum ad numerum, the number can't say anything, Lord Jesus said: "Don't go into the wide gate...", so the big number of Catholicism is actually making their religion even more uneasy to fit in.

For the conclusion of this argument: Believe in the 10 comendments, believe in Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit..., this does not follow with "Catholicism fits with the Bible". Did not the Pharisees believe in God, or obey His commendments? But Jesus still call them the "woes", rebuke them. It's not how you believe, it does not say that do they go to church...It base on the way they worship God, follow the way that the early churches, that the disciples, the apostles worship God, or follow the Israelites to create a golden Calf and worship it.

Your choice.
moonshine311111

Pro

You proved your point.
Debate Round No. 2
DebateSpirit

Con

As my opponent declared "You proved my point", I'm confidently that he had forfeited, so therefore I want to continue with my points:

_Catholicism can't fit with the Bible itself for many conflicts with the tradition of the Bible, worship one God, worship the Trinity. Catholicism also "acknowledge" the saints and Virgin Mary by pray and praise them, as if they are indeed God, therefore it had violated the first commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
_Catholicism also create idols of the saints, the Virgin Mary and even Jesus. They had humanized God to a statue of a young man with red/yellow/brown hair and colorful clothes.
_Catholicism adopted the wrong books like I Macabe, II Macabe, Wisdom..., though even the Jewish community had abandoned these books from the Old Testament, but the Church still use these books to remain their points, causes aa conflict between those books and other books from the Bible.
_Catholicism believe in a Pope, which has power over all other Catholics, that's a wrongful thing. Even if Peter was actually the first pope, the Bible never describes Him as "Power more than other Christians." but He Himself said: "We are all like the cobblestones.", Peter himself had lowered himself from God.

Those are most of my points, I believe this debate is over.
moonshine311111

Pro

moonshine311111 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
DebateSpirit

Con

DebateSpirit forfeited this round.
moonshine311111

Pro

moonshine311111 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
DebateSpirit

Con

DebateSpirit forfeited this round.
moonshine311111

Pro

moonshine311111 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
CON wins due to concessions.

Conduct to CON for having less forfeits.
Arguments to CON for PRO's conceding.
Posted by DebateSpirit 7 years ago
DebateSpirit
Yay! :)
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
CON wins. PRO, that was a disappointing forfeit.
Posted by DebateSpirit 7 years ago
DebateSpirit
I don't understand moon, did you just said: "I'm lost."?
Posted by moonshine311111 7 years ago
moonshine311111
oh darn
Posted by DebateSpirit 7 years ago
DebateSpirit
No moon.
Posted by moonshine311111 7 years ago
moonshine311111
Is my opponent going to forfeit?
Posted by moonshine311111 7 years ago
moonshine311111
i posted my arguement
Posted by DebateSpirit 7 years ago
DebateSpirit
thank you, waiting for your arguments.
Posted by moonshine311111 7 years ago
moonshine311111
hello debatespirit..ive read your other debates and it appears this is gonna be a fun debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
DebateSpiritmoonshine311111Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Vote Placed by KeithKroeger91 7 years ago
KeithKroeger91
DebateSpiritmoonshine311111Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
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Total points awarded:70