The Instigator
MikeShinnoda01
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
markasoftware
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Certificates and diplomas : Are they really important ?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
markasoftware
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/16/2015 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 563 times Debate No: 77774
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

MikeShinnoda01

Pro

To me, I totally agree with it.
because,
- It's gonna show who you really are
- It can make you get a good job
- You really need it for joining the government agency
markasoftware

Con

First of all, this is my first online debate, so tell me if I should/should not do something, as I'm obviously new to this

I believe that it things like diplomas and certificates are, to an extent, completely useless.

"It's gonna show who you really are": You can't really get a diploma or certificate for many things, even when the knowledge they give you are the same skills that you would get if you had taken an official course about it. One example of this is many hobbies. Many hobbies include skills that are very useful in the real world. One example of this is woodworking. You have to measure lots of stuff, be very precise, have persistence, and be creative (depending on what exactly that you're doing), among other things. However, unless you went to school and took a course on these things, you wont end up with a certificate or diploma for any of those things, even though by doing it you will have acquired or at least honed many skills which are often used in jobs. And woodworking isn't the only one like this at all. I'm a programmer, but I didn't learn how to program with an official course; I used a few books, a large sampling of websites, forums, etc to learn. I didn't get a diploma for any of that, but I still am a fairly confident programmer, and understand a wide variety of concepts, just as if I had learned it in school or taken an official course on programming. I bet that I could program a website that is at least as good as one made by someone with an equivalent amount of time spent learning it, but in school. So, TL;DR: People who teach themselves things, or learn them really in any non-official way, can still have tons of skills, but just not a certificate saying that they have them

"It can make you get a good job": According to this document: https://cew.georgetown.edu... 72% of jobs currently require you to have no more education than simply a high school diploma, which, unless you drop out (which most people who seriously want to get a good job will not do), means basically all you have to do is get through the mandated education to get those jobs. Additionally, http://www.forbes.com... states that the average job that people with a bachelor's degree get is only $45,000 yearly, which isn't really what you would expect as a "good job", especially considering you have to go to college for 4 years for that, which means you have to spend a lot of money (especially if you go to a good college), and 4 years where you won't be getting any money from your job.

"You really need it for joining the government agency": I don't really know anything about government jobs. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they do need a lot of diplomas and certificates. So, I'd say really the only thing i have to say about this is that there are lots of other jobs you can do instead, if you don't have a certificate. And most government jobs aren't really unique, you can probably find a private sector job that is very similar to the government job and that does not require so many certificates. Also, although the US government may require lots of certificates and such, governments in other countries may not, or at least not to such an extent

Now, some non-rebuttal arguments:

There are some things which are important for jobs which cannot be measured. Things like persistence, creativity, friendliness, etc are very hard to measure accurately with a simple test or to teach. Therefore, it is pretty difficult to provide certificates for these types of things. That's one reason why job interviews exist: so employers can see things like this in their potential employees. If somebody's a graphic designer, for example, no matter how much training they have in being a good artist, math concepts, knowing about geometry of designs, etc, if they can't think outside of the box, and all their artwork looks the same, they won't be very good at their job, and will end up being fired, even if their office is packed floor to ceiling with diplomas and certificates. This is just one example of this. There are many jobs like this which require unmeasurable skills apart from just graphic design

People aren't always able to get diplomas and certificates. For example, if somebody was born in a country, did their education there, and then moved to a country that didn't recognize their certificates from the country where they were educated, all their certificates and diplomas wouldn't be of any use anymore. Does that mean that all their skills don't exist anymore, simply because they don't have their diplomas to show it? I don't think so.

Once again, this is my first online debate. If I'm doing something obviously wrong, don't hesitate to correct me. Sorry if I messed anything up
Debate Round No. 1
MikeShinnoda01

Pro

MikeShinnoda01 forfeited this round.
markasoftware

Con

Well,I already said what I intended to in round one... So I'll await your response!
Debate Round No. 2
MikeShinnoda01

Pro

MikeShinnoda01 forfeited this round.
markasoftware

Con

Ok then...
Debate Round No. 3
MikeShinnoda01

Pro

MikeShinnoda01 forfeited this round.
markasoftware

Con

Well, I was hoping for this to be a bit more interesting than this, I guess...
Debate Round No. 4
MikeShinnoda01

Pro

MikeShinnoda01 forfeited this round.
markasoftware

Con

Well, this isn't very much of a "debate", is it?
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Theunkown 2 years ago
Theunkown
MikeShinnoda01markasoftwareTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: full forfeiture and bare assertions by Pro.