The Instigator
Freemind
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points
The Contender
elphaba1389
Con (against)
Losing
16 Points

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/12/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,234 times Debate No: 4668
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (9)

 

Freemind

Pro

Pick one of the three resolutions and state Pro or Con. In my 2nd I'll make an oppening STATEMENT (just a couple of sentences, no more). You will in your second. In my third I'll make a constructive speech. You will in your third. In my fourth I'll make a rebuttle. You will in your Forth.

Pick

--Flag burning should not be allowed in the United state

--Don't ask Don't tell is a jugmental and segragist policy

--Women should reproduce at the earliest they can while still being able to sustain the child
elphaba1389

Con

for this debate I choose:

"Don't ask Don't tell is a jugmental and segragist policy."

and I'm going PRO on this one.

you can give your opening arguement, as you are obviously CON.
Debate Round No. 1
Freemind

Pro

I Have no arguments for con and conceed any and all points. I would like to thank my opponent and I can see nothing but a Pro ballot.

For a more interesting debate look at ORGANIZED RELIGION being debated by the same people.
elphaba1389

Con

no offense, but why would you ask me to choose PRO or CON without an argument for both sides?!

you could have challenged yourself, and argued against something you are obviously in favor of. Doing that makes you a stronger debater.
Debate Round No. 2
Freemind

Pro

I had every intention of debating either side. However, I feel so strongly against DADT that I couldn't accept arguing for it with out some sort of disclaimer. That Being Said:

Observation one is Inherenchy:

DON'T ASK DON'T TELL IS AN APPROVED REGULTION IN THE U.S. MILLITARY
Andrea Stone, USA TODAY 3/12/2007
The "don't ask, don't tell" policy allows lesbians and gay men to serve if they keep quiet about their sex lives. Commanders are barred from asking subordinates about their sexual orientation.

DON'T ASK DON'T TELL IS A POLICY TO REDUCE DISCRIMINATION AGAINST GAYS
Karisha Prescott, Associated Content Jan 22, 2008
The DADT policy means that a homosexual service member may practice their desires...It also means...that they are not to be harassed, hazed, or witch hunted.

--observation one underview: In the status quo Don't Ask Don't Tell is in place not to judge but to protect against the narrow minded view towards gays.

Observation two is Advantages:

Advantage One: Unity

FIGHTING BATTALIONS SUCCEED BECAUSE OF THEIR SINGLE UNIT FIGHTING STYLE
Yaakov Katz, the Jerusalem Post Aug 15, 2006
They hiked over 40 kilometers, killed close to 20 Hizbullah guerrillas and spent 32 days in Lebanon without a single casualty. But on Monday, soldiers from the Herev Battalion emerged from battle, sweaty, dusty and tired making history twice - as the first battalion to enter Lebanon and the one to spend the longest amount of time deep in enemy territory...the battalion secured the area of the kidnapping and assisted in the evacuation of the dead soldiers from the scene of the attack....the elite Maglan and Egoz Units suffered heavy casualties during clashes...Why did Herev succeed where so many other battalions appeared to have failed? "We are a strong unit."

DISRUPTING AND WEAKENING UNITY IN OUR MILLITARY CAN HAVE FATAL CONSEQUENCES
Jamie Weinstein, Grassroots Activism to Renew America April 20, 2005
Even if — and that's a really big if — the U.S. military was being unduly discriminatory, would it warrant action to weaken it? During World War II, there was segregation between whites and blacks within the ranks — certainly a clear case of discrimination. Yet, do you think it would have been prudent to try to weaken the military by hampering its recruitment efforts as a form of protest at a time our military was facing down Nazi Germany? Of course not. And what we have today doesn't even approach the type of discrimination that went on in the military during World War II. Whether you agree or disagree with DADT — there is logic behind it.

NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION IS THE LARGEST THREAT TO AMERICA
Lieutenant General Patrick M. Hughes, USA Director, Defense Intelligence Agency Feb. 5-6 1997
The threats facing the United States have diminished in order of magnitude. This review of the global security environment assumes that the United States remains a global power militarily. Proliferation constitutes a direct threat to US interests worldwide.

AMERICA'S MILITARY IS THE ONLY THING HOLDING ENEMIES AT BAY AS OUR SOFT POWER DECREASES
Joseph S. Nye, Jr., Council on Foreign Relations June, 2004
Anti-Americanism has increased in recent years, and the United States' soft power is in decline as a result. The United States cannot confront the new threat of terrorism without the cooperation of other countries.

OPEN HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE MILITARY LEADS TO UNREST AND WILL WEAKEN THE US'S ABILITY TO PROTECT ITSELF
ELAINE SCIOLINO, the New York Times July 19, 2000
Last July, Pfc. Barry Winchell, 21,[an open homosexual] was bludgeoned to death with a baseball bat as he slept in his barracks at Fort Campbell. A 19-year-old private, Calvin Glover, was later court-martialed and sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder. Members of the unit in which the killing took place held anti-gay attitudes.

--Advantage one underview:

National Hegemony, or world influence, is made up of two things. Soft power, or the diplomatic process, and hard power, or military might. The U.S. is losing most if not all of it's soft power. This means that the only thing keeping other countries from attacking us is our hard power. Strong hard power can only be obtained from a well working, single entity militia. Most people don't realize the danger a collapse in U.S. hegemony has. As the world power, if we suddenly lose our strength it would lead to a massive struggle. Suddenly global powers like individual european countries, Iran, China, Russia, etc... will all be caught in a mad scramble to prove their dominance to attain the U.S.'s position as world superpower. In today's age a struggle of this kind would, and Could, only be solved with the use of nuclear weapons. As long as the U.S. can maintain the present level or more of hegemony we won't see this conflict. However, the U.S.'s soft power is already nearly non-existent. So we MUST keep our hard power up. Unfortunately, for better or for worse, a narrow minded view on homosexuality exists. Having open homosexuals in the military can and WILL decrease the effectiveness of our military thereby decreasing our hard power which leads to...well, nuclear war. I personally(look at my second speech) believe that gays should have just as many rights, however, we cant make that social reform just yet. If we could rely more on soft power then a slight drop in hard power wouldn't have the same implications. But since our soft power is practically non-existent, we don't have the liberty to rely on it...yet. Because we are debating Don't Ask Don't Tell, which is an AMERICAN policy, we must look to the security of our own nation as well as the dangers of a nuclear conflagration to determine whether or not it is a justified policy. For the time being, and since that's all we're debating the don't ask don't tell policy is necessary both to the security of america and to the security of every human wishing to avoid nuclear war.
elphaba1389

Con

Honestly, DADT is for the individual's safety. The sad reality is that there are people out there who will kill them because of their sexuality. Just recently there was an article about a soldier being stoned to death because he was openly homosexual.

While I hate the thought of a homosexual individual having to hide who he is, the sad truth is that it has to be this way in order to keep them from being harmed/killed. I have so many homosexual friends (i am straight) that if keeping them safe meant not telling anyone about their sexuality, then I would want them to keep quiet about it. As soldiers they are in danger anyways, but not because of something like their sexuality.

I don't oppose DADT, I hate that it has to be that way. Why can't everyone just accept everyone for who they are?!
Debate Round No. 3
Freemind

Pro

All of my opponent's last speech is EXACTLY what I was stating. If you look at my *Removed* Evidence:
DON'T ASK DON'T TELL IS A POLICY TO REDUCE DISCRIMINATION AGAINST GAYS
*Name Removed*, Associated Content Jan 22, 2008
The DADT policy means that a homosexual service member may practice their desires...It also means...that they are not to be harassed, hazed, or witch hunted.

One will see that is exactly what DADT is for.
The resolution we chose was:
"Don't ask Don't tell is a judgmental and segragist policy."

My opponent has conceded all arguments and thus they all need to be considered voters for the pro of this debate and the con of the resolution.
I have clearly proven the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy is not to segregate or discriminate but to protect and strengthen. Even my opponent has agreed that it is necessary.

Please flow across all of my arguments. And note, since this is my final speaking round, my opponent cannot be allowed to bring up any new evidence in this debate. She had her chance to support and make any and all arguments why it is a judgemental and segragist policy. That being said, if she does bring up any new arguments, because I will not have a chance to debate them it is unfair that she brought them up and they must be schartched from the ballot and hold no sway in this debate.

I'd like to thank my judges for taking the time to read this debate and I'd like to thank my opponent for debating me.
elphaba1389

Con

Thank you for posting the debate. I am strongly against DADT, but like you said, it is for their own safety. Is it judgemental? Yes. Is it segragist. Yes. If a commander finds out that a soldier is homosexual, they will more than likely be kicked out. Here again, stripping them of yet ANOTHER right all because of their sexual orientation.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by KarishaPrescott 8 years ago
KarishaPrescott
The topic of my article only covered straight peoples misuse of the policy to get out of the military easily. It is rarely used to benifit the homosexual population of the Navy, at least what I saw in my five years. On occasion, when harrassed, people would stop if threatened with a courtmartial but not enough people know the particulars of the policy. It is explained to the extent of 'stop making fun of the gay kid, that's not allowed'. I can't say it enough. Equality. Equality. Equality.
Posted by KarishaPrescott 8 years ago
KarishaPrescott
I am extremely UPSET. I am glad CON won. I AM KARISHA PRESCOTT. I am very disappointed that the title to my article would be changed to support something so easy! The Title of my article was Don't Ask, Don't Tell, The Back Door Policy: Discrimination is Still Biting the Government in thier Collective A's (sensorship).
My article covered the misuse of the policy and how it should be abolished, being replaced by EQUALITY. But the fact still remains that there is alot of hate in the military, and the world. i think of anyone, I am an authority on the issue. i wrote the article after being blackmailed and harrassed for dating the same sex.

Here is the real skinny on the policy.
It is there to threaten those who are threatening homosexuals. A person is not ALLOWED to be openly gay. Even a statement that alludes to it could land them in an investigation that gets them the boot. But, there are stereotypical character traits that go along with any persons living style. When people are not as good at hiding it, people attack. Both physically and mentally. Hazing, beatings, you name it and even possibly resulting in death.
Yes. If this policy is abolished there will be alot of unhappy people. If it is abolished, we wont lose as many perfectly trained and able bodied soldiers, sailors and airmen based on their sexual preference. Simply making everyone equal IS the way to go. People will cope. Ther are plenty of people that silently know about gays. To be blunt, when out to sea, many men become bi for a deployment. IT HAPPENS. If the world can deal with it, so can the military. It is the only organization able to openly discriminate.
Equality is the only way to go. DADT makes it a bargaining chip for someone that knows your secret, sees you kiss your significant other and has something they can report you on, its blackmail material.
They will learn. Hazing, battery, murder. All covered outside DADT. Equality is the answer. Stop misquoting. ITS DISGRACEFUL AND WRONG.
Posted by alvinthegreat 9 years ago
alvinthegreat
love the power tagging:

AMERICA'S MILITARY IS THE ONLY THING HOLDING ENEMIES AT BAY AS OUR SOFT POWER DECREASES

"Anti-Americanism has increased in recent years, and the United States' soft power is in decline as a result. The United States cannot confront the new threat of terrorism without the cooperation of other countries."

Haha, I knew Nye would never say this
Posted by Freemind 9 years ago
Freemind
By pro i mieant pro on the chosen resolution. So please vote for the "con"(elphaba1389)
Posted by Puck 9 years ago
Puck
"I Have no arguments for con and conceed any and all points. I would like to thank my opponent and I can see nothing but a Pro ballot."

wth
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by Supernova 8 years ago
Supernova
Freemindelphaba1389Tied
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Vote Placed by Freemind 8 years ago
Freemind
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Vote Placed by KarishaPrescott 8 years ago
KarishaPrescott
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