The Instigator
carriead20
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
9spaceking
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Challenger's choice

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
9spaceking
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/18/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 783 times Debate No: 65385
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (3)

 

carriead20

Pro

This is a simple debate. The challenger picks the topic and the positions and I will debate them on it.

10,000 characters
72 hours
5 rounds

If the challenger would like they can start their arguments in the first round but it is not required.

NO NEW arguments in the last round only rebuttals.

Good luck!
9spaceking

Con

School Uniforms Should Not be Required
You pro, I con (I will try to prove that school uniforms SHOULD be required)
I'll just start off light here:
School uniforms increase unity, prevent crime (more easily identify those that don't belong) and students who wear uniforms have better grades.
source: http://www.psmag.com...

Your turn
Debate Round No. 1
carriead20

Pro

Thank you Mr. SpaceKing for accepting my debate and making one that I have yet to debate.
Okay let us get started!

I have never been a big fan of school uniform – some argue that it levels the social playing field for poorer students, but I don't find that very convincing. If people are all in the same faded red jumper and ill-fitting grey trousers, it is reasoned, there is less room for judgment than if Lizzie fails to own the same Armani jeans as Beth. But publicly humiliating boys for having cheaper, non-leather versions of the generally accepted black school shoe, potentially takes some of the power out of that argument.

The state sixth-form college I attended had a nonexistent clothing policy – many of us took our A-levels in pyjamas without a teacher batting an eyelid – and a track record in results that rivalled the nearby private schools. At one of those private schools, my friend was being harassed, repeatedly, about his haircut by a cohort of adults. At one point, the headmaster of this prestigious institution was left with his head in his hands by the very idea of a (clever, well behaved) young boy whose naturally curly hair went slightly past his ears. Suspension from school was seriously discussed – even expulsion. He was a straight-A student. It was utterly absurd.

While both boys and girls can find themselves on the wrong side of the school uniform law, there is a difference in how they are treated. What counts as "smart" for girls all too often hinges on how revealing their outfit is deemed to be: in schools such as Ryde Academy, for instance, clothes must not be "provocative". But which teacher is it who goes around making the judgment call on whether teenage girls' trousers are excitingly tight, rather than just straining a bit after an ambitious lunch?

9spaceking

Con

Thanks my opponent for his quick reply and not falling to the School Uniform FF curse.
My opponent tries talking about the clothing of students and how they are bullied. It is exactly this problem that school uniforms cure. You see, bullies have less things to bully if they all look to wear the same thing. Furthermore, economic differences are separated. Instead of someone wearing epic designer jeans in contrast to normal jeans, we have everyone wearing similar uniforms. "Educational psychologist and TODAY contributor Michele Borba thinks uniforms are a good idea because they create “emotional safety at a school, which is pivotal to learning. Having kids wear uniforms will reduce bullying because kids won’t pick on each other for how they’re dressed, she said, and in urban settings, gang affiliation through dress will go down as well. The uniforms also reduce distractions, Borba said." http://www.today.com...
This psychologist is totally right. Pure logic proves that uniforms will help hinder bullying.

My round one points are not refuted.
Back to you sir, and I hope you become the second user to ever avoid the School Uniform FF curse!
Debate Round No. 2
carriead20

Pro

I may not have debated this but as you and the readers can tell I was ready for it and have read many articles about it.

Uniforms cannot deter the larger issue of violence and drug abuse in schools.

One doesn't need to look any further than Bill Clinton's address itself to understand the hypocritical nature of this argument. To quote a few excerpts from his speech,

"Today I'm visiting Long Beach, California, a community that has helped to restore order to its schools by requiring elementary and middle school students to wear uniforms... We've all seen the tragic headlines screaming of the death of a teenager who was killed for a pair of sneakers or jewelry or a designer jacket. In Detroit, a 15-year-old boy was shot for his $86 basketball shoes. In Fort Lauderdale, a 15-year-old student was robbed of his jewelry. Just this past December in Oxon Hill, Maryland, a 17-year-old honor student was killed at a bus stop, caught in the crossfire during the robbery of another student's designer jacket." (The American Presidency Project, The President's Radio Address)

In this address, the President appreciates the efforts of the Long Beach (Unified School District) in mandating elementary and middle school students to wear uniforms. However, the examples of violent behavior that he cites are all related to students in the age-group 15-17.

Across US, elementary and middle school students are being required to comply with the rules of school uniforms, while at the same time, juveniles - who, as statistics show, are involved in most illegal activities - are being excluded. There is a consensus on the fact that bringing in a regulation that mandates uniformity across schools will do little to address the larger issues of drug abuse, gang-wars, robbing, etc. By using school uniforms as a panacea, its proponents are overlooking the root cause of the problems.

Imposing uniforms on children infringes on their constitutional rights.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution gives every individual the right to express himself freely. By imposing uniforms on children, schools take away this right from them. Numerous lawsuits have been filed by the parents of children, on the grounds that the school uniforms as an infringement on the rights of their children. The judgment in these cases has been given after taking into account the respective scenarios, and there isn't still a universal rule on this issue.

In the landmark decision of Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, the Supreme Court ruled in the favor of the students who were suspended after they refused to remove black armbands, which they had put on in opposition to the war in Vietnam. The court ruled out that the rights that every American is guaranteed by the First Amendment to Constitution, applies to every student and that schoolchildren, "do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate." People who support uniforms argue that an absence of uniformity can lead to a disruption in the school. However, it has to be noted that assumption plays a larger role than prudence in this claim. A teenager who is fully clad in a school uniform can still disrupt the proceedings if he hurls obscenities at his colleagues and teachers. By denying students the right to express their personalities, uniforms not only infringe on their constitutional rights, but also inhibit the development of virtues such as diversity and tolerance in the school.

Uniforms do not take care of the entire clothing needs of children.

Uniforms may be cheaper than branded or designer clothing, but they are no way cheaper than street clothing. Thus, if you are not fussy about a particular brand, you can save a lot of money if the school does not insist on uniforms. Uniforms alone do not take care of all the clothing requirements of kids. Along with uniforms, you need to buy clothes to wear after school as well as on weekends. Needless to say, this imposes an additional expense on parents. With normal clothing, parents have an option to buy from discount stores, used clothing store, etc., to save a considerable sum. Uniforms are found only at select stores, with a fixed price, which can be a real pain for low-income families with multiple kids.

Uniforms cannot prevent the need for implementing formal dress code in schools.

Dress code implementation can never be unambiguous. Students can always find ways to tweak the code as per their taste. Uniforms, to some extent, may prevent the students from displaying their fashion sense. However, students may still find ways to stylize their school uniforms. For instance, they may roll the skirt at the waistline to make it shorter, or refuse to tuck in their shirts. It is simply impossible to prevent the students from displaying their personal taste even in uniforms.

Opponents of school uniforms are not ignorant about their perceived benefits, but it has to be remembered that the issues that proponents talk about tackling - such as violence and drug abuse - require an effort on war-footing. The policy-makers need to envisage the required measures that will hamper these activities, not only in schools, but elsewhere as well. There are larger issues of gun-control, which have been lingering on for a long time, and the recent spate of shootings pose a question mark to all of us on whether our demand of combating these challenges by mandating school uniforms is rational. We, as a society, and as a country, are looked upon as one of the most liberal and diverse in the world. Some of our greatest achievements and innovations have been as a result of the strong values of individuality and expressiveness, and we need to ensure that we are not degrading these virtues.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org...;
9spaceking

Con

1. Uniforms' deterrence
"A recent study by the U.S. Department of Education suggests that school uniforms can help reduce theft, violence, and the negative effects of peer pressure caused when some students come to school wearing designer clothing and expensive sneakers. A uniform code also prevents gang members from wearing colors and insignia that could cause trouble and helps school officials recognize intruders who do not belong on campus."
[http://0-files.eric.ed.gov.opac.msmc.edu...]
It seems that uniforms can deter violence and gangs (and inevitably, drug abuse).
Besides, even with school uniforms we still work hard to prevent my opponent's problems proposed. Just because we have a deterrence to violence, crime, and gang does not mean we will stop continuing to prevent it. My opponent offers no studies to support that if school uniforms were required, then we wouldn't work just as hard to solve my opponent's problems. In fact, we would work just as hard, it's just that with the deterrence, stopping these problems are easier than ever! Thus, we should require uniforms to help us prevent these problems and minimize bullying, violence, and theft.

2. Constitutional rights
The "Classic" argument as always. But have you thought--these students can still express themselves through jewelry and extra accessories, such as that black armband, or different shoes. People still have the right to express even with uniforms.

3. Entire clothing needs of children
Still, buying uniforms are cheaper overall than just buying clothing. Study finds that "the average American family is encountering a figure approaching, and in some cases surpassing, $300 per child for back-to-school clothing. Contrast that figure with the cost of a year's worth of school uniforms. The cost of a year's worth (Five tops and five bottoms) of school uniform or standardized dress code clothing is $150 (http://www.frenchtoast.com...)."-- cited from http://www.examiner.com...
Along with its other positive benefits already stated above, school uniforms are definitely worth it.

4. Formal dress codes
Here my opponent contradicts himself against the "disregarding the freedom of expression" school uniforms supposedly brings. He states himself, "It is simply impossible to prevent the students from displaying their personal taste even in uniforms." We see here, with the stylized uniforms, my opponent's "Contriction of freedom of expression" argument, the core argument against school uniforms and possibly the most important one, is defeated.
As for the need to implement dress code, these little stylizations are nothing compared to v-neck t-shirts or revealing dresses. It is better to have the students customize their uniform than be able to customize any type of clothing they want.

Hang in there my opponent! Only two rounds to go.
Back to you.
Debate Round No. 3
carriead20

Pro

carriead20 forfeited this round.
9spaceking

Con

Ooooooooooooo snap I literally called it in round 2....

Opponent has fallen under the School Uniform FF Curse.

All arguments extended.
Debate Round No. 4
carriead20

Pro

carriead20 forfeited this round.
9spaceking

Con

How unfortunate! The curse has fallen upon my opponent...twice!
All my arguments remain NOT refuted, while I refuted my opponent's arguments. I win.
I leave the debate in the hands of the voters.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
again? Wow this is really a curse...the acronym is even SUC. It SUCks, and it SUCks the wins right out of you!
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
well I call it the "curse" because I've debated this same exact resolution 8 times and 7 people ff'd, including you. o.0
Posted by carriead20 2 years ago
carriead20
I didn't fall for the curse, I was dealing with some personal things the past couple of days. I didn't have time to post my arguments.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
wow....unbelievable....how did Ajab manage to NOT fall under the SCF curse?
Posted by carriead20 2 years ago
carriead20
Thanks for the suggestion!
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
just a lil suggestion next time you do this limit this to non-axiomic resolutions, otherwise con can just choose something like "if something is something, then that something is something" and be pro on that.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
let's see if this one falls victim to the School Uniform curse....
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Mikal 2 years ago
Mikal
carriead209spacekingTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by Mr.Lincoln 2 years ago
Mr.Lincoln
carriead209spacekingTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
o0jeannie0o
carriead209spacekingTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: easy win for con... so sad