The Instigator
TUF
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points
The Contender
Godsconservativegirl
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Charizard would win scyther in a pokemon battle

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
TUF
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/3/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,571 times Debate No: 21193
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (6)

 

TUF

Pro

First off, I have a video, of a live pokemon that was caught on film!

It's apparent in this video, that Scyther just stood there and took every attack that Charizard used on Scyther.

But in all seriousness...

I would like to debate "an anonymous user" on the following topic, per request in the forums. The issue will be "Charizard would win scyther in a pokemon battle".



-INTRO-

For those of you who don't know what pokemon is, I will briefly explain.
Pokémon has become the second most successful and lucrative video game-based media franchise in the world, behind only Nintendo's own Mario series. It originally started as a anime television series in 1995. It then quickly became popular as a video game in 1996. Pokemon is still popular to many children and young adults to this day, and is often played in pokemon card battles.

A pokemon is a fictional character that can be contained in something called a pokeball. These pokemon are controlled by people called "pokemon trainers", and often used for people's own entertainment, such as pokemon battling.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Charizard and scyther are both pokemon that started in the first game and television series.

I am going to be arguing that if both pokemon were to battle each other, charizard would indeed win the battle.

The premises for my argument will be as follows:
1. Stats
2. Type
3. Battle style
4. Moves


To start I would like to provide the following information about both pokemon.
----------------------------
Charizard (Japanese: リザードン Lizardon) is a dual-type Fire/Flying Pokémon.
It evolves from Charmeleon starting at level 36. It is the final form of Charmander.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)


Scyther (Japanese: ストライク Strike) is a dual-type Bug/Flying Pokémon.
It evolves into Scizor when traded holding a Metal Coat.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)

----------------------------

1. -Stats -

Charizard would win in a pokemon battle first of all, because it's stats are overall superior than those of Scythers.

Scythers experience at level 100 can go up to 1,000,000.

Here are it's base stats:
HP: 70
ATTACK: 110
DEFENCE: 80
SP.ATTACK: 55
SP.DEFENCE: 80
SPEED: 105
TOTAL: 500

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Stats


Now let's compare those to Charizards base stats.

Charizard at level 100 gets experience up to 1,059,860 (significantly higher than scyther).

HP: 78
ATTACK: 84
DEFENCE: 78
SP.ATTACK: 109
SP.DEFENCE: 85
SPEED: 100
TOTAL: 534

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Base_stats

All of charizard's stats, total out to be higher than those of Scythers.

2. -Type-

In pokemon games, and in the movies/t.v. series, each pokemon has it's certain weakeness and strengths. Each pokemon has a type affilliated with it as well that is taken into account when battling.

Scyther's type is bug/flying

His weakness's are:
Flying: 2X's
Rock: 4X's
Fire: 2X's
Electric: 2X's
Ice: 2X's

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Type_effectiveness

Again let's compare this to Charizard's.

Charizard's Type is fire/flying.

His weakness's are:
Rock: 4X's
Water: 2X's
Electric: 2X's
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Type_effectiveness

Charizard has the advantage with these superior stats because of both of Charizards types are an automatic weakness for Scyther.
Also Scyther's Auto-type doesn't contain any of Charizard's weakness. Thus in order for Scyther to even hope to stand a chance, Scyther will need to learn some very good moves.


3. -Battle Style-

SCYTHER'S BEHAVIOR:

"Scyther are very intelligent, but tend to be quiet and reclusive in the wild. They tend to act like lions, and if a challenger Scyther wins a battle against the leader of the Scyther swarm, the original Scyther leader will depart, and the challenger will take place as the new leader. When confronted by a Trainer, they will react very aggressively to defend themselves, but when trained, Scyther can be among the most loyal Pokémon on any Trainer's team and hate to give-up."

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Behavior

CHARIZARD'S BEHAVIOR:

"Generally, a Charizard will be competitive. It loves to battle and spend a great amount of time training or looking for opponents. Its competitive spirit is also noteworthy, since it will never spit flames at a weaker foe unless provoked or commanded. When it gets very angered, the flames on its tail become a bluish-white color. It spits fire that is hot enough to melt boulders. It is known to have unintentionally caused massive forest fires with its tail-flame. The more experienced a Charizard, the more intense its tail flame and breath are. Charizard has been depicted in Great Bowls of Fire to repeatedly lick the people and Pokémon it is fond of, in a similar manner to a dog."

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Behavior


When Looking at the Bios of both pokemon, it is pretty clear to see that Charizard attitude is much more battle oriented. While Scyther may be more clever, Charizard spends more time training, and preparing for battles, thus we can assume that Charizard will prove to be more clever in battle.

4. -Moves-

While the stats basically prove most of both of these characters abilities, the battle will ultimately come down to which moves were used more effectively by both pokemon. Which moves can each pokemon learn?

A full list of Scyther's learned moves can be found on this link:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Learnset

Upon reviewing the link, you will find that the only two moves of Scyther that could prove type effective against Charizard, will be:
Wing attack
Airslash.


Now, let's take a look at Charizard.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Learnset

As you can see, charizard has plenty of type effective moves towards Scyther.

Air Slash
Ember
Fire Fang
Flame Burst
Wing Attack
FlameThrower
FireSpin
Inferno
Heat Wave
Flare Blitz

It doesn't take a whole lot of insight to review that Charizard's learned move are far more superior than Scyther's that will actually have a physical effect on Charizard.

-CONCLUSION-

I have proved that Charizard would beat Scyther in a pokemon battle.
Charizard proves himself, Statistacally, behavoirally, type effectiveness, and because of his superior battle movements.

Because of all the information I have provided, I strongly urge, you the voters, to vote Pro.

I would like to thank "the anonymous user" in advance for accepting this debate, and wish her luck in the following rounds.

http://pokemon.pikimal.com...
http://pokemon-pokedex.findthedata.org...
Godsconservativegirl

Con

I will accept the challenge. Although I agree with you, I will debate that scyther would beat charizard in a pokemon battle.

1. Scyther is faster, and would be able to dodge charzard's attacks. Scyther's speed is 105 while charizard's is only 100. Also, here's another fact about scyther's speed.

"Scyther is also noted for its agility. While hunting in the wild or in a battle between trainers, it relies on its speed to strike quickly and to avoid being struck in return by its foe. If angered, it can boost its agility, allowing it to quickly tear down any opponent. Its nigh-supernatural speed can make it seem to be in more than one place at once, or to seem invisible as it moves in, strikes, and leaves the opponent before he can feel the blow. For this reason, Scyther is sometimes known as "the ninja Pok�mon"."

http://gaming.wikia.com...

With than information, charizard would get confused and wouldn't be able to attack.

2. Scyther doesn't only have two moves, scyther has various moves that will help him beat charizard like:

Rain dance
Toxic
Hyper beam
Protect
Double team
Aerial ace
Swords dance
U-turn
Rock smash
quick attack

Scyther can do rain dance to weaken charizard and use toxic, hyper beam, or cut to attack charizard.
Debate Round No. 1
TUF

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting!

****REBUTTALS****

"Scyther is faster, and would be able to dodge charzard's attacks. Scyther's speed is 105 while charizard's is only 100. Also, here's another fact about scyther's speed."

You can not honesetly expect to win this debate alone, on the fact tha hos agility is a mere 5 notches higher than Charizards, do you? Even after all those stats I threw at you?

Charizard has higher HP, SP. Attack, and SP. Defence. In total. Charizard exceeds Scyther in 34 levels of ability. Speed being 5 more than Charizards isn't a large enough factor to weigh in the battle to make a significant difference.

"Scyther doesn't only have two moves, scyther has various moves that will help him beat charizard like:"

I never said that Scyther had 'only' two moves. I said that he only had two moves that would be effective against charizard. Then I provided a list of moves that scyther has, the same one you provided.


****MY CASE****

Dear audience, my ENTIRE case has been dropped, please extend all arguments.

1. My opponent has not proven that Scyther has superior stats than charizard, other than speed lol.

EXTEND

2. My opponent never touches on Charizards type being better effecting that Scyther's.

EXTEND

3. My opponent has not refuted battle style and behavior of both pokemon.

EXTEND

4. My opponent has not refuted that Charizard has more effective moves than scyther.

EXTEND


****CONCLUSION****

My entire case has been dropped, and hers refuted.

I thank the audience for their time, Vote PRO!

:)
Godsconservativegirl

Con

"You can not honesetly expect to win this debate alone, on the fact tha hos agility is a mere 5 notches higher than Charizards, do you? Even after all those stats I threw at you?

Charizard has higher HP, SP. Attack, and SP. Defence. In total. Charizard exceeds Scyther in 34 levels of ability. Speed being 5 more than Charizards isn't a large enough factor to weigh in the battle to make a significant difference."

Your right, I did drop that because I can't prove that Scyther's stats are higher Charizard's. it's a proven fact that Charizard's overall stats is higher and better than Scyther's, so I can't prove that it's not. Plus, if you look at the stats, Scyther's attack is higher than Charizard's. Scythers is 110 and Charizard's is only 84. Although 100 and 105 is a little difference, it's not a little difference in Scyther's case. Scyther's speed can make it look like it's at multiple places at one time. Charizard would get confused on which is the real Scyther.

"I never said that Scyther had 'only' two moves. I said that he only had two moves that would be effective against charizard. Then I provided a list of moves that scyther has, the same one you provided."

You're right, you didn't which was a mistake on my part. I apologize for claiming something you didn't say.

"1. My opponent has not proven that Scyther has superior stats than charizard, other than speed lol."

I will in this round. There are three stats that Scyther can handle better than Charizard. Scyther has better resistance against water, fighting and steel. Scyther can use rain dance against Charizard, any of it's cut moves and steel wing against Charizard.

"2. My opponent never touches on Charizards type being better effecting that Scyther's."

I didn't because there's nothing to prove that Charizard's type isn't better than Scyther's. it's a proven fact that Charizard's type is better.

"3. My opponent has not refuted battle style and behavior of both pokemon."

I will in this round.

"Generally, a Charizard will be competitive. It loves to battle and spend a great amount of time training or looking for opponents. Its competitive spirit is also noteworthy, since it will never spit flames at a weaker foe unless provoked or commanded. When it gets very angered, the flames on its tail become a bluish-white color. It spits fire that is hot enough to melt boulders. It is known to have unintentionally caused massive forest fires with its tail-flame. The more experienced a Charizard, the more intense its tail flame and breath are. Charizard has been depicted in Great Bowls of Fire to repeatedly lick the people and Pok�mon it is fond of, in a similar manner to a dog."

Charizard's beavior and style is very good, but with Scyther's cleverness and speed comes with this fact also:

"Scyther's carapace can be used to camouflage itself, making it hard to see even when it is not moving."

http://gaming.wikia.com...

Scyther can use this technique to protect it's self and to surprise attack Charizard.
Also, it can cut a log in one blow, so it's attack power can damage Charizard pretty well.

"4. My opponent has not refuted that Charizard has more effective moves than scyther."

Although I didn't respond to this direcly, I did show a list on how scyther's moves are more effective than charizards.
Debate Round No. 2
TUF

Pro


****REBUTTALS****

" Scyther's attack is higher than Charizard's. Scythers is 110 and Charizard's is only 84"

Attack means nothing when comparing special attack.

Scythers special attack is only 55, While Charizards is 109. Special attack is what delivers all those BIG movies, like flamethrower, Fire blast, and the ones that are going to provide critical hit damage. This all scythers Special Attack's are going to be in-effective against Charizard anyway, because of the type resistant.

Comparing normal attack damage, we minus 26 points. But in this hypothetical battle, any smart person will be using charizard's big devastating moves, that are going to inflict the most damage on Scyther. These moves require special attack, which practically demolishes scyther's HP in a single hit, as the attack difference equals 54.

"Although 100 and 105 is a little difference, it's not a little difference in Scyther's case. Scyther's speed can make it look like it's at multiple places at one time. Charizard would get confused on which is the real Scyther."

Unfortunately it is not as simple as that in the MMO gaming society. Especially with a major player like Charizard. Speed generally has little effect on element based moves (water, fire grass, ice, etc), and large effect against physical moves (Tackle, double edge, slap, pound etc). Relying on a difference of only 5 speed would be impractical even if charizard was breaking the physical barrier in which he would be doing these types of moves. But Charizard is an element based pokemon, and any pokemon trainer would be ludicrous to make such a move. Now when charizard use a fire attack, for example flame wheel, there is no chance that 5 notches is speed will do any difference. In the games, speed also doesn't even "Confuse" it's victims. I believe you are mis-lead in that approach.

"There are three stats that Scyther can handle better than Charizard. Scyther has better resistance against water, fighting and steel. Scyther can use rain dance against Charizard, any of it's cut moves and steel wing against Charizard."

These aren't really stats. Either way, it doesn't help Scyther much to water resist from a fire type pokemon. Charizard, is definitely not a steel type. And coming into this battle, it is unlikely that he will be using any fighting type moves. Thus, Charizard seems to be safe from Scythers 'resistances'.

Now on to the rain dance portion. Rain dance doesn't seem to do much against a pokemon like charizard. It reduces fire moves by 50%, and boost water moves by 50%.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(move)

Scyther is a bug pokemon, so there are actually not ANY moves scyther can learn besides rain dance, that are water type.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(Pok%C3%A9mon)#By_TM.2FHM

This isn't going to help him very much.

Anyways, this can easily be combatted by the move "Sunny day" if charizard had it equipped. Not that it would be very beneficial to use it, nor would rain dance. Rain dance doesn't help scyther enough to risk losing even one move for.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net...(move)



"I didn't because there's nothing to prove that Charizard's type isn't better than Scyther's. it's a proven fact that Charizard's type is better."

Glad to see we agree! :D POINT CONCEDED.



"Scyther can use this technique to protect it's self and to surprise attack Charizard.
Also, it can cut a log in one blow, so it's attack power can damage Charizard pretty well."


Compared to thefeats displayed by Charizard in the series, I would say this is a minor ability. Charizard deflects a blast from Moltres, and Articuno (and actually defeating articuno), both legendary pokemon. He is shown to lift boulders 3 times his own size as well. He's collapsed mountains by flying at full strength into them.
He is seen melting huge boulders into nothing. He is seen taking on water pokemon such as Poliwhirl and Blastoise (who he also defeats). Also is shown to destroy Scizor, which is the pokemon scyther evolves into. That log cutting ability doesn't seem to show up for much.

;

"Although I didn't respond to this direcly, I did show a list on how scyther's moves are more effective than charizards."

No, you just provided a list of moves that scyther can use. Effective has nothing to do with that list lol.
It's safe to say you conceded them, as now I have no ability to respond to anything you say in the next round.

CONCEDED





****CONCLUSION****

My opponent has dropped quite a few of the points from my case. The ones she did lightly touch on, I have refuted in full.

I ask the audience to extend at least a conduct point because of this when voting. I thank my opponent for accepting this debate, and I feel I have proven that all in all, charizard would win a scyther is a supposed pokemon battle. Thankyou.
Godsconservativegirl

Con

Good video. I got to say, Charizard is strong!
"Unfortunately it is not as simple as that in the MMO gaming society. Especially with a major player like Charizard. Speed generally has little effect on element based moves (water, fire grass, ice, etc), and large effect against physical moves (Tackle, double edge, slap, pound etc). Relying on a difference of only 5 speed would be impractical even if charizard was breaking the physical barrier in which he would be doing these types of moves. But Charizard is an element based pokemon, and any pokemon trainer would be ludicrous to make such a move. Now when charizard use a fire attack, for example flame wheel, there is no chance that 5 notches is speed will do any difference. In the games, speed also doesn't even "Confuse" it's victims. I believe you are mis-lead in that approach."

I didn't know that you were talking about Charizard vs. Scyther in the Pokemon game. I thought we were debating Charizard vs. Scyther in the show. Now that I know that, I must agree with you.

"Attack means nothing when comparing special attack.

Scythers special attack is only 55, While Charizards is 109. Special attack is what delivers all those BIG movies, like flamethrower, Fire blast, and the ones that are going to provide critical hit damage. This all scythers Special Attack's are going to be in-effective against Charizard anyway, because of the type resistant.

Comparing normal attack damage, we minus 26 points. But in this hypothetical battle, any smart person will be using charizard's big devastating moves, that are going to inflict the most damage on Scyther. These moves require special attack, which practically demolishes scyther's HP in a single hit, as the attack difference equals 54."

I must agree.

"Now on to the rain dance portion. Rain dance doesn't seem to do much against a pokemon like charizard. It reduces fire moves by 50%, and boost water moves by 50%"

I think reducing damage by 50% is a lot. this is just an example but say if Charizard's flame thrower takes 50 HP, if Scyther does rain dance, Charizard's flame thrower only takes 25 HP.

"Compared to thefeats displayed by Charizard in the series, I would say this is a minor ability. Charizard deflects a blast from Moltres, and Articuno (and actually defeating articuno), both legendary pokemon. He is shown to lift boulders 3 times his own size as well. He's collapsed mountains by flying at full strength into them.
He is seen melting huge boulders into nothing. He is seen taking on water pokemon such as Poliwhirl and Blastoise (who he also defeats). Also is shown to destroy Scizor, which is the pokemon scyther evolves into. That log cutting ability doesn't seem to show up for much."

In behavior, Charizard wins.

"No, you just provided a list of moves that scyther can use. Effective has nothing to do with that list lol.
It's safe to say you conceded them, as now I have no ability to respond to anything you say in the next round."

Oops, what I meant to say was this. Although I didn't respond to it directly, I did provide a list on how Scyther would beat Charizard.

I must say again, all this time, I thought we were talking about Charizard vs. Scyther in the show. I just debated a losing debate. Scyther stands absolutely no chance against Charizard. Well, this was an absolute victory for my opponent.
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BennyW 4 years ago
BennyW
If a lv. 100 Scyther is fighting a lv. 36 Charizard and uses special attacks and potions then possibly.
Posted by MattDescopa 4 years ago
MattDescopa
scyther could win if it maxes out its special attack and uses hidden power rock. It would also be holding a focus sash.
Posted by Godsconservativegirl 4 years ago
Godsconservativegirl
I lost..
Posted by Korashk 4 years ago
Korashk
I think I could win this debate as Con.
Posted by Korashk 4 years ago
Korashk
Charizard needing almost 60,000 more experience points than Scyther to get to level 100 isn't a point in its favor. It's arguably a negative.
Posted by 1dustpelt 4 years ago
1dustpelt
Gyarados vs Lapras?
Posted by 1dustpelt 4 years ago
1dustpelt
Gyarados is the best, it would beat them all
Posted by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
LOL

"Parasect, use Spore atta....oh, you fainted. Return."
Posted by mongeese 4 years ago
mongeese
"This couldn't be more one-sided."

Charizard versus Parasect. GG.
Posted by Doulos1202 5 years ago
Doulos1202
I have no real clue about the ways of pokemon but from reading the opening debate this seems to be a bit loaded and no challenge to Pro. Ofcourse you could try semantics ;)
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Altilongitude 4 years ago
Altilongitude
TUFGodsconservativegirlTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession
Vote Placed by BennyW 4 years ago
BennyW
TUFGodsconservativegirlTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con essentially conceded defeat.
Vote Placed by famer 4 years ago
famer
TUFGodsconservativegirlTied
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Reasons for voting decision: lol
Vote Placed by Chelicerae 4 years ago
Chelicerae
TUFGodsconservativegirlTied
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Reasons for voting decision: 'I lost..'
Vote Placed by YYW 4 years ago
YYW
TUFGodsconservativegirlTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: When con says: "vote pro!" as the Great Philosopher, Eurithmics once said "Sweet dreams are made of these, who am I to disagree?"
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
TUFGodsconservativegirlTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: "Well, this was an absolute victory for my opponent."