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The Contender
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Charmander(pro) vs Bulbasaur (con), who is better?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/23/2013 Category: Games
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,308 times Debate No: 42851
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)




This debate will be about which Pokemon is better, Chamander or Bulbasaur. I will be in favour of Charmander. Con will be in favour of Bulbasaur.
Debate Round No. 1



Better: "more desirable, satisfactory, or effective" [1]

Firstly, as we all know, Charmander is super effective on Bulbasaur. However, we should also see how these 2 pokemon are good against other pokemon.

Charmander is resistant to 6 types: fairy, bug, ice, steel, grass and fire. However Charmander has 3 weaknesses, water, rock and ground. [2]

Bulbasaur on the other hand has 5 resistances: fighting, water, grass, electric and fairy. Bulbasaur also has 4 weaknesses: fire, bug, psychic and ice. [3]

As you can see, Charmander has more resistances and less weaknesses than Bulbasaur, making him better pokemon.
Charmander is also a better Pokemon to have in pokemon X and Y. Charmander evolves into Charmeleon, than to Charizard, who has 2 mega evolutions. Because of his different amount of mega evolutions, Charizard offers a greater variety of strategies possible, since Charizard X is also a dragon type, and Charizard Y has the ability Drought. [4] Also, in Pokemon X, Charizard has an advantage over more gyms than Venusaur. In pokemon X and Y, you obtain the Kanto starters, including Charmeleon, Bulbasaur and Squirtle In Lumiose city a bit after you beat the first gym. There are 7 gyms afterwards. Those gyms are: rock, fighting, grass, electric, fairy, psychic and ice. [4] Charmander is strong on fighting, if you evolve it into Charizard by then. Charizard is also strong on grass, and ice. It is weak to rock, and to electric, however with mega evolution X, you can abolish this weakness, because Charizard will no longer be an flying type. Charmander, Charmeleon and Charizard would be neutral to psychic. Furthermore, fairy would be weak against Charmander, however Charmander will not be strong against fairy.

So basically, Charizard, Charmeleon and Charmander would be strong on 3 types, weak to 2 (not including mega evolution), neutral to 1, and resistant to 1.

Bulbasaur, Ivysaur, and Venusaur would be strong on rock. Furthermore, they would be weak against psychic and ice. And they would be resistant to fairy, grass, fighting and fairy. So Bulbasaur is weak against 2, strong against 1, and resistant to 4.

Having the super effective advantage over gym leaders is more helpful than being able to resist them, because you have no advantage physically over the opponents, you are only able to resist them, turning Bulbasaur into a wall. Walls are meant to faint, but are there to slow things down.

With these advantages over having a Bulbasaur, Charmander is obviously the superior pokemon.



Lets go straight into this

My advesary started his intial round by claiming that charizard is more effective in a 1v1 against a bulbasaur, however this is not the topic of the debate. This is a discussion about whom is better, not whom is better in a 1v1. What makes a Pokemon effective in most games is its ability to work in a team composition, and there are different types and strategies that play into this.

Evolution : Charizard vs Venasaur

This plays a vital role in whom is better. Oblivious we are going to assume the trainer will evolve them because of the stat bonuses that are attained. Let us first compare the tiers in meta use.

Venasaur is rated in OU(overused), which is the second highest tier[1]


Charizard is placed in the NU(never used category)[1]

Even among meta players there is a common acceptance that venasaur is a better pick.

Even among basic weakness in their final stages, venasaur trumps charizard.

My adversary is trying to compare 3 to 4 weaknesses or saying charizard is better because vensaur has one additional weakness [2]. This is flawed and even in the new x and y and mega evolution venasaur is never used in the way charizard is. venasaur was originally in the UU tier the same as charizard, but no one had any idea how explosive he would be in that tier.

He excelled at being a bulky sweeper but his strong point was not being used a basic sweeper but to force switches in matches. Venasaur also has power stab moves such as leafstorm , giga drain, and power whip. Venasaur can even out play some of his counters with sleep power because it can buy him an extra turn. Depending on your build with him, you also have moves such as sludge bomb and leech seed to eat away at the enemy Pokemon. Venasaur even has earthquake if needed. [3]


While my adversary makes a correct assumption in assuming that charizard may dish out more burst damage upfront and would win in a one on one fight, he fails to address the purpose of venasaur which is a utility role.

As i previous stated venasaur can draw switches, stall fights, sap hp and just cause havoc in a match. This is true even in OU

" Venusaur can perform excellently as a Leech Seed abuser, thanks to its great bulk coupled with the ability to incapacitate a counter or check with Sleep Powder. Leech Seed provides Venusaur with some form of recovery, while weakening the opposing Pokemon at the same time. Leaf Storm offers a powerful STAB move that hits many Pokemon hard, but lowers its Special Attack after every use. Grass Knot is a great alternative, still hitting quite hard thanks to many top Pokemon that reside in the tier being very heavy. Hidden Power Fire allows Venusaur to hit Steel-types that would otherwise wall this set, such as Scizor. Since Scizor is one of the most common switch-ins to Venusaur, and can also not get harmed by Leech Seed thanks to U-turn, it can easily switch in and hit Venusaur hard or allow the opposing team to gain momentum. Sludge Bomb can be used instead of Hidden Power Fire for a secondary STAB move, but Venusaur loses out on the ability to hit Steel-types. "[4]

Even in younger stages bulbasaur can win.

Even if we were just to compare the level 1 stages bulbasaur would have the advantage for the same reason.

Charmander would not posses the ability to do any aerial attacks and also the power from which he gains as a charizard is lost.

Bulbasaur does not suffer from the same issue. Keeping him at his first stage would offer him a speed boost and he would still posses almost all of the same attack except for earthquake. He would be able to do the same thing as venasaur but gain a speed boost in the process to sweep faster. With this starter being a primary utility roll, he excels in all of his stages of evolution.

Checks and counters

" Though Venusaur has quite a few counters that can dispose of it, all checks and counters must beware of a potential Sleep Powder, which could severely cripple them. For that reason, it would be wise to switch in a status absorber to take the Sleep Powder before switching to your counter. Once sleep clause has been activated, Venusaur becomes much easier to counter, as there are a number of Pokemon who resists Venusaur typical attacking options. Skarmory is without a doubt the best counter to physical sets. Even boosted Power Whips don't bother it thanks to its typing, which 4x resists Grass-type attacks. It is also immune to Earthquake, meaning that there is nothing Venusaur can do to hurt Skarmory. In return, Skarmory can easily set up Spikes on Venusaur, smash it with Brave Bird, or phaze it with Whirlwind. Zapdos can switch into Venusaur and either set up a Substitute or fire off a powerful Heat Wave. Dragonite is also not weak to any of Venusaur's attacks, and can blast Venusaur away with Outrage. Note that Venusaur may carry Hidden Power Ice on some special sets, but it's never strong enough to OHKO Dragonite. Choice Scarf Heatran can switch in on anything but a Ground-type attack and threaten Fire Blast, much the same way as Infernape. Celebi is a solid response to all Venusaur as well, since it's immune to Leech Seed, resists Grass- and Ground-type attacks, and can hurt Venusaur with STAB super effective Psychic."[4]

This is what i was mentioned earlier, due to sleep powder this opens u a majority of avenues for venasaur in fights. He can sleep, stab, and change or even beat some of his counters using this method when matched with gigadrain or leech seed. He deals DOT damage and excels at doing it because of the potential he has to stall a fight with while doing DOT.

Mega Venasaur

Again even pro players acknowledge his potential in the meta and competitive scene.

"Venusaur gets a nice boost with a mega evolution. When Venusaur becomes Mega Venusaur, it’s base stat in special defense and defense. With the availability of moves like leech seed and sleep powder – Mega Venusaur becomes a potent support Pokemon for any competitive team. Like I mentioned above, Mega Venusaur certainly has the stats and movepool to serve a variety of roles in a competitive team. Since the metagame is still in its early stage – I feel like experimentation is a good way to go about things when creating a competitive team. Hence, most of these moveset are experimentations based on years of Shoddy and PO."[5]

When venasaur goes into mega he gains tankiness and turns to primarily support while still forcing switches. Like some moveset title suggests, Mega Venusaur role is to serve as an effective lead using the combination of sleep powder and Leech Seed to force switches, effectively scouting the opponents team [5]. Again this is making his roll as a utility and support very effective

Again compare this with Charizard

While venasaur acts as utility and can support a team while causing out switches, charziard relies on burst and pure power and also which is he is only used in RU(rarely used) or NU( Never used) battles.

Even with the speculation around mega charizard having two mega evolutions, it fails in a competitive battle when we place him side by side with venasaur. It does give him drought which is an added bonus, but you can only use one mega evolution in a battle and in addition it still goes by the same concept. He is all about power and bursting down.

In Closing

We are debating whom is "better"

and as my adversary described this entail whom is most effective.

Vensaur can serve as a tank. a support/tank, or play pure utility for his team. He can sleep and eat away at people with DOT damage and leech seeds and force switches to draw advantageous situations for the person using him. When we compare this with charizard and his pure reliance on just burst dmg in a single situation. It is quite clear the trio of bulbasaur/ivysaur/venasaur are far better especially in advnace meta battles when compared to Charmander/Charmelion/Charizard.

Debate Round No. 2


urapai forfeited this round.


I will take this as a concession from my advesary.

Bulbasaur due to evolution and his ability to work well in a team is a better Pokemon than charmander.
Debate Round No. 3


urapai forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


urapai forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by TUF 2 years ago
Nice debate
Posted by Digitallover12 2 years ago
No one wins Just Agumon
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by KingDebater 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's arguments about the different tiers of the final evolutions were what convinced me. Also, con didn't forfeit.
Vote Placed by dtaylor971 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con wins due to almost full forfeit. S&G to con also due to a clear way of writing and limited mistakes.