The Instigator
ILL_logic
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
shauneng
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Chickens can help us understand dinosaurs

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/15/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,398 times Debate No: 46022
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

ILL_logic

Pro

In my debate I need somebody to challenge why chickens can help understand Dino DNA
(MEANING you do not believe chickens can have anything to do with understanding dinosaurs) i am pro -challenger is con explain to me why we can not learn anything about dinosaurs from a chicken . good luck and i look forward to a rather interesting debate
shauneng

Con

1st point: The differences between chickens and dinosaurs

http://www.independent.co.uk...
This is the first result of the Google search.
After I read it, I started to question the qualifications of the scientists. Even if the chickens have evolved from dinosaurs, chickens and dinosaurs are already a far cry from each other. What makes you think that the experiment was a success? Let me give you an example.
http://www.theguardian.com...
We have permanent breasts and apes don't. Apes only have full breasts only after giving birth. Even with our DNA as humans being almost the same as apes, we differ from apes greatly. Talk about chickens and dinosaurs! Evolution has changed dinosaurs, almost completely altering them. The experiment result can be compared to a person often carrying a heavy load on his back.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com...
Throughout the years, his bone structure changes, making him stooped. The prosthetic tail is most probably the same thing.

2nd point: The possibility of chickens related to dinosaurs

Yes, chickens may have evolved from dinosaurs, but even that may is a big may.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
http://www.newscientist.com...
The links above states the evidence of the evolution.
However, in the second link, they recognize the method is prone to being not accurate or completely off.
In this wikipedia page : http://en.wikipedia.org... , it says that chickens and dinosaurs may be related because they have a lot of similarities.
But, I have this link : http://answers.yahoo.com...
The evidence for one of the provided example:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu...
The thing is, even with a lot of similarities, they may not be related. The evidences that suggest that chickens and dinosaurs are related are actually a HYPOTHESIS, meaning that it is DEDUCTIVE REASONING(GUESSING).

I'll present my other points later in other rounds.
Debate Round No. 1
ILL_logic

Pro

i would like to start off by saying that i never agree to chickens evolving from a dinosaur so that is not relevant in a sense
. i simply just asked if " CHICKENS CAN HELP US UNDERSTAND DINOSAURS" your saying that chickens being related to dinosaurs is just a theory . that is true but that is not what i care about . i simply want to know "can chickens in anyway help us understand dinosaurs " .. can they?
shauneng

Con

What I'm saying is that because chickens and dinosaurs are too different from each other, and they are most probably are not related to each other, so yes, I'm saying that chickens can't help us understand dinosaurs. It's like studying the facial expressions of apes. If they "smile", they are actually just baring their teeth, giving the message: "Don't mess with me". We humans smile because we are happy.

Thus, chickens can't help us understand dinosaurs
Debate Round No. 2
ILL_logic

Pro

http://media.web.britannica.com...

above is the picture of living relations ,here you can see the bone layout /structure of a modern chicken is almost the same . excluding varients like the tail ,long claws ,and teeth but even with all that missing the chicken is still considered a "avian dinosaur" it is the closely resembled avian animal we have alive to this day that resembles the dinosaur so yes i believe chicken can help us and not by the whole evolution theory lets forget about that right now i will show you why chickens can help us understand dinosaurs

One of the major proteins found in our bones is called collagen. Collagen is special in a lot of ways.

First there is a lot of it in a bone. If any amount of protein were to survive, it would be collagen.

Second, it is different than a lot of other proteins. It has special things done to it by the cell that make it very stable. These chemical modifications make it easy to distinguish from other proteins.

Finally, it has stayed very similar over time. This means there are changes we can find. But not so many that we can't tell what we have.

So some scientists did some experiments on a particularly well-preserved T. rex thigh bone. First they demineralized it. Basically they added something (EDTA) to help turn the stone back into bone.

Then they checked what was there with antibodies. Antibodies can tell whether or not a certain protein is there. They can be very specific´┐Żsome recognize just one part of a protein from one type of plant or animal.

When scientists added antibodies that recognized chicken collagen to the demineralized bone, the antibodies stuck. This told them that there was collagen there. And that it was similar enough to the chicken protein to be recognized.

OK but how much like a chicken is it? To figure this out, the scientists decided to look right at the protein. They used a technique called mass spectrometry (mass spec).

In mass spec, a protein is chewed up in a specific way and the pieces identified. Scientists can then compare the chewed up protein to known proteins and see how related they are.

When they did this, they found that the T. rex collagen was most similar to chicken collagen. Next were newts and frogs. Others were much less related.

So chickens came from dinosaurs, right? Well, maybe.

Unfortunately, the scientists didn't have alligator or crocodile collagen to compare it to. Once we see how related these beasts are to a T. rex, we'll have a better feel for how related a chicken and a dinosaur are.

One thing is for sure, a chicken and a dinosaur are very related. And now that we have this technique, I am sure lots of other collagens will be figured out. Then we'll be able to tell whether the dinosaur came before the chicken. Or its egg.

http://genetics.thetech.org...
this is one source i have i have many sources on this subject if anybody would like some links let me know or if anyone would like to discuss the topic further
shauneng

Con

http://www.newscientist.com...

Read this link. It explains your point on the collagen issue. but, they recognize the method is prone to being not accurate or completely off.

This is the paragraph that says so :
There was one glaring mistake, however. Asara's results suggested the Anolis lizard, a native of the Southeastern US, shared more relations with mammals than with alligators and dinosaurs. Such errors are common when working with limited sequences, Asara says.

For your other point about chickens being similar to dinosaurs, here's my links that i have provided before:
http://answers.yahoo.com...
http://evolution.berkeley.edu...

I'll requote what I've said before:
The thing is, even with a lot of similarities, they may not be related. The evidences that suggest that chickens and dinosaurs are related are actually a HYPOTHESIS, meaning that it is DEDUCTIVE REASONING(GUESSING).
Studying an animal of a specific family does not help you much to understand an animal of another family. To understand dinosaurs, you need dinosaurs.

Even if you copy and paste things, you should read what I've just put up. I didn't even need to present new arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
LOL: You've been Cloned. :-D~
Posted by ILL_logic 3 years ago
ILL_logic
it seems my computer decided to spam =/
Posted by ILL_logic 3 years ago
ILL_logic
depends on how far back you go sagey would be my opinion . i do agree though that ancestors would not understand even simple biological terms
Posted by ILL_logic 3 years ago
ILL_logic
depends on how far back you go sagey would be my opinion . i do agree though that ancestors would not understand even simple biological terms
Posted by ILL_logic 3 years ago
ILL_logic
depends on how far back you go sagey would be my opinion . i do agree though that ancestors would not understand even simple biological terms
Posted by ILL_logic 3 years ago
ILL_logic
depends on how far back you go sagey would be my opinion . i do agree though that ancestors would not understand even simple biological terms
Posted by ILL_logic 3 years ago
ILL_logic
depends on how far back you go sagey would be my opinion . i do agree though that ancestors would not understand even simple biological terms
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
Yep Ostriches can help us understand Velociraptors, well, t;hey are a direct lineage, I suppose in a way I can help others understand my ancestors. Though I think the environment and thus psych would differ.
My ancestors certainly didn't think anything like I do.
So the understanding would most likely be of a genetic/phenotype nature only.
Posted by Actionsspeak 3 years ago
Actionsspeak
It sounds funny but animals help you understand other animals, since they all follow a path from evolution.
No votes have been placed for this debate.