The Instigator
MouthWash
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points
The Contender
cbrhawk1
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points

Children should be disciplined with beatings.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
MouthWash
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/20/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,687 times Debate No: 23695
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (6)

 

MouthWash

Con

cbrhawk1 recently asserted in this thread "The stupidity of today's American youth"(http://www.debate.org...) that parents should discipline their kids with violence, as well as claiming that he succeeded under this type of parenting. Trusting that he means what he says, I am willing to debate him on the subject.

This is his quote:
"This is lack of parenting in the Western world leading kids to try stupid things. This is because we teach parents not to beat the living hell out of their children when they are wrong. When you don't discipline and/or watch your children, this is what happens."

First round acceptance.
cbrhawk1

Pro

I'll accept the challenge with the following definitions:

Beatings: the act of punishment through physical force without causing permanent physical harm (i.e. fractures, physical damage to brain, etc...).

Discipline: the act of negatively reinforcing a particular behavior.
Debate Round No. 1
MouthWash

Con

I thank Pro for accepting this debate.

What do beatings do?


Hitting creates violent children


When a child is hit, they learn that violence is an aspect of life and resort to hitting each other during playtime, when they have disagreements, and in other situations [1.http://www.askdrsears.com...]. It creates an idea of "might makes right" in the child and they believe that such interactions are normal. Children who are physically hurt have no other coping skill but violence.

Hitting doesn't stop bad behavior

Beating a child can make them stop any misbehavioral action immediately. I am not arguing against this, nor am I saying it is ineffective. However, the child is responding out of fear, and is not actually learning any sort of lesson from it [2.http://www.naturalchild.org...]. They are only aware of one thing- Misbehavior = pain. The child only learns how to get away with bad behavior or actions. The act of trying to escape pain reinforces the image of the parent as evil and anger can build up over years. Inevitably he or she will rebel or hit back.

Abused children become violent later in life

I will simply quote statistics for this. [3.http://www.theannainstitute.org...]

Adults abused during childhood are:

- more than twice as likely to have at least one lifetime psychiatric diagnosis
- almost three times as likely to have an affective disorder
- almost three times as likely to have an anxiety disorder
- almost 2 ½ times as likely to have phobias
- over ten times as likely to have a panic disorder
- almost four times as likely to have an antisocial personality disorder

·Numerous studies have documented that most violent criminals were physically or sexually abused
as children. (Groth, 1979; Seghorn et al, 1987)

·Children from violent homes are 24 times more likely to commit sexual assault than their counterparts fromnon-violent homes. (Dinzinger, 1996)

·Of 14 juveniles condemned to death for murder in the US in 1987, 12 had been brutally physically abused and five had been sodomized by relatives as children. (Lewis et al, 1998)

·A study of convicted killers reports 83.8% suffered severe physical and emotional abuse and 32.2% were sexually violated as children. (Blake, 1995)

Alternatives



Arguing


Arguing with your child (not raising your voice) is beneficial for him or her. Instead of saying "Because I said so," argue using facts and explain to the child what they did wrong and why they are being punished. The kid learns how to think independently and resist peer pressure. [4.http://www.npr.org...] Of course, this method is more effective with teenagers.


Time outs

When a child is put in time-out, it allows them to think about what they have done, as well as allowing them to calm down. [5.http://kidshealth.org...#] Some experts also say that they should only be kept in time-out until the child stops resisting, which teaches them self-regulation.

Losing privileges

This one is the most obvious. It is the most basic punishment and through it children learn that doing certain things results in the loss of whatever objects or activities are related to it. When they are beaten, they only learn pain.

"In psychology, any stimulus that reduces the strength of a behavior in some measurable way is a punishment for that behavior. Punishment is something that happens to behavior rather than something that is done to a person." [6.http://www.cyc-net.org...]

I am done and look forward to my opponent's response.
cbrhawk1

Pro

I'm going to go ahead and forfeit this debate. I figured I would want to debate this issue, but I really haven't been motivated to look up information on it.

Perhaps, we can revisit this issue at a later date. Or, perhaps, we can meet in the forums, but this isn't a particular topic of heavy interest of mine, and would be doing a disservice to the debate community for not being thorough in addressing this subject

I apologize to you and all others.
Debate Round No. 2
MouthWash

Con

Pro has, unfortunately, forfeited. I apologize for the wasted debate.

Vote Con.
cbrhawk1

Pro

Well, the big thing here is this:

When I was challenged, I figured I would eventually find time where I would want to look his stuff up. I did write down a few sources, an opening, and I had an idea of my counters to the sources and arguments.

But, I'm just not a big fan of debates like this. I prefer discussions over debates. The one debate I did have was before I realized that the forums were active and full of good material themselves. Later on, I'll probably make a thread where these things can be discussed by many people. I can post smaller bits of research and won't have to hunt down everything and try to be elaborate and lengthy.

Just so it's known, the last debate I had, most of my rounds were done over the course of a few hours of study, verification, calculation, and writing itself. This topic, while one that I have an opinion on, and with Diablo and Uncharted Waters, combined with my current investment in the topic of Global Warming, it's hard for me to want to dedicate that kind of time.

Vote con please and thanks or the challenge regardles and I'm sorry for wasting your and others time with my wishy-washiness.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by NickTheGrapist 5 years ago
NickTheGrapist
Right.
Posted by MouthWash 5 years ago
MouthWash
Your kids. Your mind, especially.
Posted by NickTheGrapist 5 years ago
NickTheGrapist
for?
Posted by MouthWash 5 years ago
MouthWash
Don't. Get help.
Posted by NickTheGrapist 5 years ago
NickTheGrapist
Haha i refuse to insult you.
Posted by MouthWash 5 years ago
MouthWash
Perhaps you should consider therapy, my misguided friend.
Posted by NickTheGrapist 5 years ago
NickTheGrapist
@MouthWash
I can think of no gentler way to put this.
You are an idiot for complaining about me bitching,
and it is because of this that you are a bigger idiot than that of i.
However, i will forgive you, because now i am complaining about you complaining about my bitching, and if you reply, you undoubtedly will also be complaining. So to again reply would be self-refuting and therefore pure idiocy. Good try though.
Posted by MouthWash 5 years ago
MouthWash
@NickTheGrapist, I can think of no gentler way to put this. You are an idiot. If you feel that way so strongly then debate it, don't bitch about it.
Posted by NickTheGrapist 5 years ago
NickTheGrapist
Children should occasionally be disciplined with beatings....
Take for instance a child who doesn't react to any of the alternative discipline provided. Perhaps the child doesn't care...or perhaps they simply ignore it.
Your first point is a fallacy in of itself due to it's lack of historical reference. Which society was more corrupt? That of 200 years ago, or the "corrupted" youth of today?

Your second point makes no sense. The alternatives provided all use pain as a vantage point to teach a lesson.

The next point was a fallacy due to definition...
"Beatings: the act of punishment through physical force without causing permanent physical harm (i.e. fractures, physical damage to brain, etc...)."
So to say people who have this or that from physical/sexual abuse relates in noway to the argument...as that happened, and was permanent. Physical attributes describe emotional attributes, however the reciprocal of that isn't held true. So the definition still stands.

Seems to me this debate was a wasted debate anyways.
Posted by MouthWash 5 years ago
MouthWash
Damn something happened to the spacing.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by SuburbiaSurvivor 5 years ago
SuburbiaSurvivor
MouthWashcbrhawk1Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by royalpaladin 5 years ago
royalpaladin
MouthWashcbrhawk1Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by daytonanerd 5 years ago
daytonanerd
MouthWashcbrhawk1Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: A Pro FF
Vote Placed by Double_R 5 years ago
Double_R
MouthWashcbrhawk1Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Counter VB.
Vote Placed by ras2000 5 years ago
ras2000
MouthWashcbrhawk1Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: pro is right
Vote Placed by Wallstreetatheist 5 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
MouthWashcbrhawk1Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited due to an overwhelming case by Listerine.