Chistians should be perfectly fine with abortion
Debate Rounds (3)
I would like to start with the fact that they believe in the "Sanctity of Life"- the idea that because God gave life, only He can take it, thus to abort would be playing God and that is blasphemy and a sin. If God gave life, they believe that the person to whom he gave life has a purpose to serve God in any way that they can, and so by ending that life (Which begins at conception for many), removes this person's ability to fulfil God's wishes.
Secondly, the Ten Commandments state that: "You shall not murder"- Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21, and Christians believe that ending a life, even at conception is murder, which sentences them to hell. Strong believers also advocate that God decides everyone's fate and as such no one should have abortions because that would condemn them to hell, and of course, that would be horrible, especially when aforementioned Christian could've stopped it from happening.
Finally, Christians believe that God created man in his own image, and made us king of the animals- "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."- Genesis 1:25. As such, abortion is taking away the uniqueness that God bestowed upon us as the human race- if we can throw the life of a human as quickly as we can the life of an animal, then we have not met this role that God set upon us, and have dishonoured his wishes and gifts.
Christians believe abortion is wrong because:
1) It breaks the sanctity of life
2) It is murder
3) It breaks the unique gift God gave to the human race that we should rule over everything, and that we take God's image.
the bible and preachers teach peace and to love your fellow man. it also states we were all born sinners and need to accept jesus as our savior to get into heaven. it states god has a divine plan. he knows everything before it happens and everything happens because of gods will. which we supposedly cant understand and just have to accept it. if you read the bible and and understand gods will, and you have an abortion, then it must be part of gods will and his divine plan. otherwise theres no justification for harm being brought to an innocent child. if god created all of us and already knows what were going to choose and do because he created it all that way. having an abortion should be perfectly acceptable. its either people are being taught wrong or there are inconsistencies throughout the teachings that contradict what we are actually supposed to do. do you go against gods divine plan, or agaisnt gods teachings.
" Strong believers also advocate that God decides everyone's fate and as such no one should have abortions because that would condemn them to hell, and of course, that would be horrible, especially when aforementioned Christian could've stopped it from happening"
so that fate must be abortion. god decided that was the childs fate and thus made it so. that sentence contradicts itself. if god decides everyones fate then there no way any human can stop gods plan. who are we to determine if gods will is bad or agaisnt his own rules? throughout the bible gad has killed millions of people, even with abortion. why are we to think that these abortions arent part of his divine plan in present day?
we all sin everyday multiple times. jesus was the only perfect being. the bible states every sin is a sin no matter if its murder or you worked on sunday. it is said in the bible if you sin and ask for forgiveness, no matter what the sin is , you will be saved and forgiven. so if it is a sin, and all sins are the same, why is it so bad to sin, be forgiven AND have your child directly go to heaven. you cant work on sunday (sin) and then turn around say abortion is bad (sin) , according to the bible.
1. god has a divine plan that he made before any of us were alive
2. everything that happens is because of gods will good or bad. we just dont know what his will is
3. abortion must be part of gods will if he created you with plans to have the abortion.
4 . the souls of aborted children still get to go to heaven and be with god.
So let's begin with your first statement: "God has a divine plan"- indeed Christians believe that he does. Many believe, however, that the divine plan does not involve controlling the will of all the people He made to rule His Earth- that would be useless wouldn't it? To create something that does the job you were supposed to do, but then continue to your job, turning your special creation into some wasted material. We may as well be considered animals, however, the bible refutes that particular point, or else every human would rule every human. Christians believe that God gave us free will. This means that we have the ability to make our own decisions, whether to abort or not, for example. The free will is what makes a human a human- we are not bound by mere instinct, we are dynamic and capable of a higher level of thought.
Secondly you said that: " throughout the bible gad has killed millions of people, even with abortion"- God has never interacted with the human species himself, except to speak to Moses in the form of a burning bush. As such, God himself has never caused abortions or killed millions with them. Not only this, but God's own ten commandments were set out with number 4: "You shall not kill"- Deuteronomy and Exodus. As such, the fact that abortion exists is because of the free will God gave humanity and not an Act of God itself, in the same way that fertility treatments are an extension of Jesus' knowledge and love, abortions were the extension of free will bestowed upon humanity so that we would not be animals.
Finally, the biggest issue that I have with your arguments is that you think Christians become upset because the soul of the child doesn't go to heaven. For a start, this is unclear, as to go to heaven one needs to be Christian, baptised and been cleansed of sins, three things that unborn babies can't do. Even if they do go to Heaven, the biggest issues Christians have with abortion is that it is murder, and to murder is to break one of the ten commandments and as such go to Hell. Christians have an issue with abortion because of this. Abortion is murder, it is taking a life, and condemning one's own life to hell. Not only this, but that life was given by God and it is a waste of his generosity. Think of it as a precious gift, and having that gift thrown away. This is abortion to Christians, and it is unacceptable. Genesis, chapter 38 shows exactly why Christians are against abortions: "And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled [it] on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also."- Genesis 38:8-10. This illustrates why abortion is an abomination to many Christians. They know that to abort life is to murder and to waste a gift that God has given, resulting in total loss of faith.
1) God's divine plan does not encompass the control of every living being, or else He wouldn't have bestowed upon us free will.
2) The unborn may not go to Heaven
3) Abortion is wasting a gift that God has given.
4) Abortion is murder, and condemns the perpetrator to Hell.
" God has never interacted with the human species himself" --wrong
"Next we headed for the land of Bashan, where King Og and his army attacked us at Edrei. But the LORD told me, 'Do not be afraid of him, for I have given you victory over Og and his army, giving you his entire land. Treat him just as you treated King Sihon of the Amorites, who ruled in Heshbon.' So the LORD our God handed King Og and all his people over to us, and we killed them all. We conquered all sixty of his towns, the entire Argob region in his kingdom of Bashan. These were all fortified cities with high walls and barred gates. We also took many unwalled villages at the same time. We completely destroyed the kingdom of Bashan, just as we had destroyed King Sihon of Heshbon. We destroyed all the people in every town we conquered " men, women, and children alike. But we kept all the livestock for ourselves and took plunder from all the towns." Deuteronomy 3:1-7 -- surely some of those women were pregnant
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." Samuel 12:11-14 -- killing more children
"God himself has never caused abortions " --wrong
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up" Hosea 13:16 --every pregnant woman here gets a divine abortion
those are just a few examples of god going crazy with murder and abortion. thou shalt not kill, unless god instructed you to kill, as he has done so many times. to further my point god has no regard for life, he consistently has people killed or killed them himself but for some reason chirstians are being taught humans are special and god values all life. we are made in gods image. so mass murder, rape, killing women and children and aborting babies are exactly what god does. they arent reading there own bible or they arent understanding it. if they read the bible and follow with written word of god , they should have no problem with ending life. the fact he has ordered the death of unborn children , its reasonable to say god ordered the woman to have the abortion as part of his divine plan.
1) god kills and orders the death of unborn babies
2) god contradicts everything the bible teaches and orders humans break his commandments. you cant punch someone in the face while telling them not punch people in the face because its wrong
3) chirstians arent being taught the bible correctly or they would have to believe god ordered women to have an abortion. as we can see he orders abortion and murder all the time
4) its widely accepted , if not by all chirstians that aborted children souls go to heaven. mainly because they couldnt accept god would punish innocent souls. but my point they still believe their souls go to paradise where they all want to end up anyway
Secondly, God does not value all life, the Bible clearly states that God only loves believers, I.E: Christians. "Peter 5:6-7 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you."- This quote specifically states that only people "under the mighty hand of God" (Christians) will benefit from His love.
That concludes my rebuttal to the two points that your previous argument included and as such I will begin my total summary and closing argument for this debate.
The topic of this debate was that Christians should be perfectly fine with abortions, which I refute, even as an atheist, because I have a functioning knowledge of Christian beliefs.
Christians are opposed to abortion because of the following reasons:
1) It breaks the Sanctity of Life- the idea that God gave us life and so only He can take it, and for a human to do that is playing God.
2) God's divine plan does not conform to the idea of free will
3) It takes away the uniqueness that God bestowed upon humanity when he created the human race
4) It is considered to be murder, and commandment 4 says that "You shall not murder". He who breaks commandment 4 or any commandment would go to Hell.
Let's begin with point number one: The Sanctity of Life.
The Sanctity of Life is the idea that God gave life to the human race, especially Christians, and so to take away life before natural causes (including disease) is to be playing God, which is blasphemy and condemns the perpetrator to Hell. If life is taken before birth, it is removing one's ability to follow the wishes of God, which Christians believe is the purpose of our lives. Furthermore, Abortion removes gifts that God gave us, and shows ungratefulness and a disbelief of God.
Secondly, we'll move on to point 2, the idea that you kept repeating as "God's divine plan". The bible does indeed state that God has a divine plan, but it also says that God gave humans free will- to a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to "choose life . . . by listening to [God"s] voice," that is, by choosing to obey his commands. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) This offer would be meaningless, even cruel, if we lacked free will. Instead of forcing us to do what he says, God warmly appeals to us: "O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river.""Isaiah 48:18. As you can see, God gave us free will, free will to follow his commands, but in the way that does not make life meaningless and controlled, but rather in a way that allows us to make our own, informed decisions, or else Jesus would not have had to pay for our sins, the Bible would be a useless tool as we would do whatever God wanted and thus we have free will. In this way, your argument that when abortions occur, they do so at God's will is false. Abortions occur at our will, and we face the consequences.
Point 3 links on to this really very nicely too- the idea that God created us in His own image- "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."- Genesis 1:25. Why would anyone create anything better than something else, yet have that same thing bound by Its own will, which makes it the same as the things it was supposed to be different from? God would have created us as his own achievement, something that would serve him and do his bidding, but voluntarily. Humanity was created just as God wanted, and it would be a waste to abort such a thing, and insulting too. It would be like freeing a prisoner, who would enjoy life, and then having them executed just because you couldn't be sure that they'd do what you want them to. Abortion is appalling in this way, as it refutes the idea that humanity is unique and special, and that we have a right, given by God, to live.
Finally, I conclude this debate with the single most important point that Christians have against abortion, and that is that abortion is murder. Pure and simple. Murder, one of the ten commandments written by God and dictated to His creation in the knowledge that believers would adhere to such things. Murder is murder, and he who murders will go to Hell when he dies. Christians are scared of Hell, and they live to serve their creator. The idea that anyone could go against such a wish is unimaginable to them, and thus they hate abortion. Abortion shows the amount of unbelievers that exist, and furthermore show such ruthless to people to have no interest at all in life. Christians are offended by the idea that abortion is legal, how humanity, created by God has fallen to such a low level. It shows that people no longer care, and it destabilises the power of God in the modern world, which is a worrying thought to pious people. You say constantly that everything fits with God's divine plan, and that abortion is God's will, but it can't be, not when God's own creation is defying his wishes. What creator would ever want that? None of them. Abortion will stop people that could serve God from living. It denies His will as a creator, and shows that clearly, moral rights have gone, and the world is slipping out of control. For this reason, Christians are against abortion.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: To con as pro did not refute the ten commandments reason and isn't well informed on the "all babies go to heaven idea" No they don't in informed Christians eyes. That is why many parents have babies baptised as quickly as possible. Just because some people like to shove fingers in their ears and say LALALALA doesn't mean the religion itself agrees. Also "god" gets to do whatever he wants without consequence and is seen as good. You on the other had have to follow many rules and still repent, it does not matter if he is a hypocrite.
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