The Instigator
Xanxus
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
9spaceking
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
9spaceking
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/18/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 979 times Debate No: 52874
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

Xanxus

Pro

You're move Space King if you choose to accept. State your topic!

i)Acceptance
ii) Opening statements
iii) Rebuttals
iv) Counter-rebuttals
v) Conclusion
9spaceking

Con

I accept the challenge. I will do the topic I am most versatile in: School Uniforms Shouldn't be Required. I will be pro, you will be con. (You will argue that school uniforms should be required)
Debate Round No. 1
Xanxus

Pro

School Uniforms should be required in all education institutions for the following reasons:

i) They bring unity and uniformity within the school community
ii) They destroy social barriers and puts everyone on an equal paying field in terms of clothing
iii) They hide the poor backgrounds of certain students which protects them from ridicule.
iv) Since certain social barriers have been destroyed. This less distractions from study and other scholarly duties.
9spaceking

Con

I will say my opening statements (and rebut you later).

In the adult world students have to make their own choices and school uniforms exclude that "training excercise" of having to choose what clothes to wear. [1]

School uniforms send out a sense of anti-individuality that goes against our personal liberty and freedom of expression. A nation should not go against its beliefs. It would not really matter if this was not in the constitution in the first place, but seriously--the constitution is the basic belief of America, and breaking it is a big blunder! [2]

Although school uniforms can bring a sense of unity among students, the unity is too robot-like! As shown in source [3], a parent openly states "I believe we should...advance independent, creative thinkers -- not standardized, uniformed thinkers." Frudden said. "To do anything less is to do our children and our society a disservice."

As shown from source [1], parents are unsatisfied with the school uniform prices, indicating that school uniforms don't exactly save parents money. They would not complain if the school uniforms actually saved money!

People usually judge other people based on the clothes they wear, I agree, but a person's clothes really have nothing to do what goes on. If someone isn't very smart or physically capable they will still get bullied regardless of the fact that they look the same as everyone else. In other words, bullies can still persist, teasing other students concerning their mental ability instead of physical. Furthermore, not everyone bases people on their clothing. Sure, nobody's like the Beauty from "Beauty and the Beast", but everyone can see some desirable traits underneath the ugly face! (No offense, Mr. Beast)

Onto you, con!

ALL SOURCES IN MLA CITATION
[1]Brosnan, Peter, and Alexis Brindley. "What Not to Wear: A School's Dress Code Limits Clothing Styles and Colors." Current Events, a Weekly Reader Publication 28 Mar. 2011: 7. Opposing Viewpoints in Context.Web. 10 Feb.2014."

[2]Fetzer, Kent J. "School Uniforms Stifle Freedom of Expression." Salt Lake Tribune [Detroit] 18 Apr. 2002: F2. Opposing Viewpoints in Context.Web. 10 Feb.2014."

[3]Dolan, Maura. "CALIFORNIA; Court Rejects School's Shirts; Judges Say Requiring Students to Wear the School's Motto Is a Free-Speech Violation." Los Angeles Times [Los Angeles] 15 Feb. 2014: AA3. Elibrary. Web. 21 Feb. 2014."
Debate Round No. 2
Xanxus

Pro

Uniforms do actually save you money in the long run let's go ahead and pretend that 4 uniform sets (mandatory pants and shirt w/shoes) costs $500. In truth, it would cost much less ($280 would be more realistic) but this is suppose to be outrageous. For the one time cost of $500, the student will be able to wear that same uniform in the span of four years of high-school.

"The article references a recent study showing the average 10-year old is outfitted with $729.50 in back-to-school apparel and supplies. While that number may not come as a surprise to most parents, the responses for apparel items are very telling." [1]

"Most parents responded that they spent $48 on pants for their children and that $30 was a "reasonable" price for a T-shirt. Using those figures, the average American family is encountering a figure approaching, and in some cases surpassing, $300 per child for back-to-school clothing. Contrast that figure with the cost of a year's worth of school uniforms. The cost of a year's worth (Five tops and five bottoms) of school uniform or standardized dress code clothing is $150 (www.frenchtoast.com)." [1]

So take $729.50 mutliply it by 4 and you have $2918.
Take $500 (outrageous overstated) multiply it also by 4 (for each year) and you have $2000 (saved $918)
Replace that with $280 (more realistic) multiply it by 4 and your expense is $1120 (you have saved $1,798)
Now use $150 as the source recommended and you have an expense of only $600 over the course of 4 years (Here you have saved $2,318)
So you say that uniforms do not save you money in the long run is false.

Individuality does not only show through the clothes that you wear but also through your character as well. The way that you hold and portray yourself is much more important than the clothes that you wear. All clothes do is amplify the effective. Similarities pull people together even if it's he hate for they're uniform. It still drives the student population inward towards each other. Cliques become slightly harder to form and thus more people are included. You're correct in saying if someone isn't smart or physically incapable they will get bullied but let's face uniforms cannot save everyone. Of course the bottom 10% of the social percentile will continue to get picked on. If you're not good people then your not no good with people it's a personality to flaw that the students will have to overcome and they must work to achieve that.

Sources (I don't MLA, it's a weird social convention) :

[1] Buesing, Matt, "Case Closed: School Uniforms Cost less" http://www.examiner.com.... Web. 06 Sept. 2014.
9spaceking

Con

I extend my arguments which you didn't rebut: "In the adult world students have to make their own choices and school uniforms exclude that "training excercise" of having to choose what clothes to wear. [1]"; "School uniforms send out a sense of anti-individuality that goes against our personal liberty and freedom of expression--a Constitutional belief. [2]"
Now, time to rebut: "For the one time cost of $500, the student will be able to wear that same uniform in the span of four years of high-school." Not true, children can have growth spurts and outgrow the uniform, and because such new uniforms need to be bought. In addition, after uniforms are bought, old clothing is practically useless, only to be worn during weekends, only 2/7 of the time. This ratio amplifies over a big time, and soon enough, the difference between how often the uniform is worn compared to the normal clothing is in the hundreds. Years make that number high up in the thousands!

" The way that you hold and portray yourself is much more important than the clothes that you wear." Which is exactly why school uniforms aren't needed. Nobody cares about your clothes except yourself and your parents, and that is the reason why school uniforms aren't needed. Why should they be required? That only makes the school administrators' jobs tougher--they have to make sure the uniforms are worn the whole day, and students have to bring checks to school to buy the uniform. If uniforms weren't required school administrators won't have to worry about making sure all students wear their uniform and student's don't have to annoyingly bring checks to school to buy uniforms.
Your turn, pro!
Debate Round No. 3
Xanxus

Pro

Uniforms help to distinguish students from outsiders. Which is beneficial to the faculty in helping supervise and provide a safe environment for there kids to learn. Students can also conceal weapons in their personalized clothing and accessories which brings dangers and bad press to the school. Not to mention extreme forms of bullying.

This is video is an example of how students can conceal weapons in their clothing.

https://www.youtube.com...

Now I'm not saying that the students should be in uniform all the time. I believe that students should be award when they are behaving and performing well. So maybe once every month a civvies day will be in order when students will be able to come in in their regular clothing and embrace their individuality. It is something to be celebrated however one is to think of the tribe before themselves. It is the Bullworth way. (I just wanted to say sorry lol )

Rebuttal 1
Now, time to rebut: " 'For the one time cost of $500, the student will be able to wear that same uniform in the span of four years of high-school.' Not true, children can have growth spurts and outgrow the uniform, and because such new uniforms need to be bought. In addition, after uniforms are bought, old clothing is practically useless, only to be worn during weekends, only 2/7 of the time. This ratio amplifies over a big time, and soon enough, the difference between how often the uniform is worn compared to the normal clothing is in the hundreds. Years make that number high up in the thousands!"

I actually rebutted this statement later on. First off, I had said that $500 was an exaggerated amount and that it was still less than the average cost of regular clothing each year. Which was $729.50. If we multiplied that by 4 years you will still save $918 compared to regular clothing. Yes children do have growth spurts and outgrow uniform but in most cases that occurs toward the end of year but since everyone is different the parent would just buy the new uniform set early instead of the beginning of the succeeding new year. The same cycle will apply.

Rebuttal 2:
"Nobody cares about your clothes except yourself and your parents, and that is the reason why school uniforms aren't needed. Why should they be required? That only makes the school administrators' jobs tougher--they have to make sure the uniforms are worn the whole day, and students have to bring checks to school to buy the uniform. "

Not true. Try picking up girls looking a chump. Appearance is important that's what a uniform teaches people.It also teaches students to dress conservatively. Uniforms can be altered to fit everyone's individuality in most cases. The alterations are slight but noticeable if you've been wearing them long enough. Uniforms do shape you up for the real world. As far as school administrators go there's not much of a problem. If they're out of uniform they'll be sent home or to the attendance office to get a uniform pass. Easy and in most cases teachers don't bother to check unless it's obvious or you're causing trouble.
9spaceking

Con

*claps hands* Excellent job! You might become the first debater to not forfeit and win against me in a serious argument concerning school uniforms!

"...This is video is an example of how students can conceal weapons in their clothing." So why can't the students conceal weapons in their uniform? Is the uniform so expertly designed so that no weapons can be concealed? And couldn't they just conceal it in their backpacks?

" So maybe once every month.... students will be able to come in in their regular clothing and embrace their individuality." Exactlly! School uniform isn't required this day! You support that school uniforms shouldn't be required! Yipee! However, I haven't seen a school policy yet that "requires uniform" but lets it loose in one day per month....that would be weird.

"....the average cost of regular clothing each year." Okay, so I did some research. The average cost of school uniforms for parents is $249, based on http://greatergreatereducation.org.... However, this is still very expensive, and poor people are astonished by this, and cannot afford this rate of money according to this source: http://www.theguardian.com.... This is very costly, and although regular clothing each year might cost more, it is generally cheap clothing spent over a long amount of time rather than a lot of money spent in a single moment. Plus, more clothing gives a diversity to choose from, in contrast to looking the same every single school day. Also, many schools have several other uniforms such as formal uniforms for special occasions and yet another uniform for P.E. Many parents complain about the prices of all these uniforms combined together. [4]

" Try picking up girls looking a chump...." lol, but that's a different story. That's like comparing apples to oranges. Besides, school uniforms usually have a color scheme that don't look right for picking up girls. Even if the uniform was formal enough for this case, uniforms of those kinds are hard to know exactly what uniform parts need to be washed, dried and ironed the night before.

Oh yes, and a new point because I cannot give out new points in my conclusion: school uniforms aren't very comfortable. Some kids are sensitive to certain materials while others are opposed to buttons, zippers and restrictive clothing. Many girls, for example, do not like to wear dresses or skirts, which most girls' uniforms require. No uniform can suit all children. [4]

I extend my argument concerning the fact that constitutional rights are violated.

And finally, a mere 23% of schools require uniforms. [5] Why switch over? It would be awfully frustrating, annoying, and hard to do. Many educators and parents just don't see the point in switching over to uniforms, especially in American public schools where uniforms are still the exception and not the rule. [4]

[4] http://kidsfashion.about.com...

[5] http://www.statisticbrain.com...;
Debate Round No. 4
Xanxus

Pro

Xanxus forfeited this round.
9spaceking

Con

WHAT?!!! Come on man! You're like the fourth person to forfeit this series of debates I'm most skilled in. Can no one make a strong argument? It's not like I said "you may not post anything in the last round"...
Uggghhhh. I hate forfeiters. (How hypocritical of me! :P)
Vote con!
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Hello83433 3 years ago
Hello83433
If I could vote I would, but I think that pro wins this one. He stated why he had forfeited his last round(wasn't his fault) and ultimately had better arguments. In my mind, with my vote, Xanxus wins this debate.
Posted by Xanxus 3 years ago
Xanxus
Shoot forgot to post the last arguement lol and I had it typed too
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by bhealey 3 years ago
bhealey
Xanxus9spacekingTied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: I felt that Pro had better arguments while Con had better sources
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 3 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
Xanxus9spacekingTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Con. Pro forfeited round 5.
Vote Placed by Actionsspeak 3 years ago
Actionsspeak
Xanxus9spacekingTied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro won arguments, the last two rounds he pulled away. The forfeit ended any chance Pro had at receiving conduct, or arguments. However, I will grant sources to Pro sonce I strongly dislike MLA.