The Instigator
frulockxxx
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
burningpuppies101
Con (against)
Winning
35 Points

Chopsticks vs Forks

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/21/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 12,804 times Debate No: 5766
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (6)

 

frulockxxx

Pro

i would like to start by saying i have not read the other chopstick debate because i do not yet want it to influence my ideals this debate i am starting because i like the topic and i am writing a real life dialog essay for a class

i have choosen the side of chopsticks
i would like an opponent who is on the side of forks please

first the health benefit of chopsticks if far greater then that of the fork with a fork u can get the food now eat fast even though it takes ur body 15 minutes to relize that it is full with chopsticks u can only eat so fast so people will relize they are far before they would stuff them selves silly with all that extra fat your body will end up storing

speaking of the speed of forks compared to chopsticks ill move on to a social issue family's all around America like to have that family dinner where everyone sits down togather for awhile well kids these days just don't apreciate that time they share and just shovel their food in as fast as they can well with chopsticks you can't use them as a shovel so that forces the children to have more family time that they will indefinably appreciate later in life

thirdly lets admit it our economy is getting rough with all the inflation chopsticks are just overall cheaper to produce .
burningpuppies101

Con

Thanks to my opponent for the debate. I do think this will be entertaining and fun for us all. I would also like to welcome my opponent to debate.org. Let's debate!

Topic Analysis:
The topic is: Chopsticks vs. Forks. What this means is that my opponent will try to prove that chopsticks are better. My job is to prove that forks are better.

I'll spare you the definitions, since I think we all know what a chopstick is, and what a fork is.

Refutations:
I'll just directly quote my opponent, so we all know what I mean.


This is the jist of my opponent's first argument. His evidence for this is that you can eat much faster with a fork than with chopsticks. Therefore, you are more likely to make yourself fat because you are eating much more than you normally should with a fork, than with chopsticks.
REFUTATION: You cannot blame societies tendency to eat fast on the tools they use. I can use chopsticks, and eat just as fast as I would with a fork. Many people can. Therefore, I have shown that chopsticks are not better than forks in this case. I will show how forks are better in a bit.


So my opponent argues that because you can eat quite fast with a fork, society is damaged. You can make the same argument with chopsticks. If you are proficient with chopsticks, then you can use them just as fast as you would with a fork. And actually, you can use chopsticks to shovel in food. Many Chinese people eat their rice like this: Put their bowl to their mouth. Use the chopsticks to shovel in rice and food.
REFUTATION: Also, again. You cannot blame society's problems off the tools they use. Using the example above. People have the ability to eat just as fast with their chopsticks than with their fork. I have shown chopsticks and forks to be equal on this point.


So my opponent makes an economic point. Chopsticks are supposedly cheaper to make.
REFUTATION: Even if they might be cheaper to make, that does not outweigh the environmental concerns. Forks can often be reused. However, chopsticks are best known in a disposable form. You use them once, and thrown them away. Also, chopsticks are traditionally made out of wood. This has a huge impact on the environment. Take a look at this article.
http://www.independent.co.uk...
The article states many reasons as to how much chopsticks hurt the environment. Forks have much less impact upon the environment since they are often reused again and again, thereby saving much material.

Ok, so so far, I have shown that chopsticks are not better than forks. If anything, they are equal. Therefore, my opponent hasn't proved his point. Now I will present my own arguments as to why the fork is undoubtedly better.

1. Ease of use. For many people, learning how to use chopsticks can be a pain. It is very hard to manipulate 2 long pieces of wood with one hand. I know many people who have been trying for years, but cannot figure out how to use chopsticks. Forks on the other hand, are very easy to use. You hold it in your hand, any way you like, and the rest is self-explanatory. You use it to either scoop food or to spear the food. Then you eat it. It is much easier to use a fork than it is to use chopsticks. Because of this ease of use, forks are better.

2. Forks are better for social gatherings. For a social gathering in America, we often want to impress others. Fumbling with your utensils is not the best way to put your best foot forward. Imagine yourself at a dinner party with all your friends and your boss, and the food is served. You look for a fork to use, but all you can find are a pair of chopsticks. You don't know how to use chopsticks. You will undoubtedly embarrass yourself by the end of the night in 2 ways: 1. You try to use them but fail, and make a fool of yourself. 2. You use the chopsticks, but in such a poor way that people laugh at you.

Because again, forks are easier to use, they are better for social gatherings, and therefore better than chopsticks.

3. Ease of learning. Using a fork is very easy to learn. It takes about 30 seconds, and it is self explanatory. Chopsticks on the other hand, require someone to teach you. You need to be taught how to use chopsticks. Because it is easier to learn how to use a fork, forks are better.

4. Forks have more utility than chopsticks. They have more uses. Forks can be used to spear items of food. Forks can be used to scoop food. Forks have more uses than chopsticks. Chopsticks can only pick up foods using 2 pieces of wood that are very hard to manipulate. Because forks are more useful, they are better.

5. Forks have less impact on the environment. Chopsticks are primarily made out of wood. If you look at the above link, it provides statistics as to how many trees are destroyed to make chopsticks. Forks on the other hand, are often made out of metal, are more durable, and are often reused. Because they are reused, their demand is lower, so the impact on the environment is smaller since less forks are made.

For the above reasons, forks are better than chopsticks. Thank you
Debate Round No. 1
frulockxxx

Pro

frulockxxx forfeited this round.
burningpuppies101

Con

I have nothing to say... I'm sorry if my opponent wasn't able to get an argument out in time. If he wants we can do another debate after this one.

Extend everything.
Debate Round No. 2
frulockxxx

Pro

ooopsies lol i am new here and def didn't know about time limit lol sorry about that so imma pretend it didn't happen

i guess first ill argue back on mine

Health- i do not agree with u on the point that eating with chopsticks at the same speed as a fork if were trying to eat a bowl of rice as fast as u could a fork can easily shovel the rice in but a chopstick can barely get a bite at a time this proves the fork would be much superior which shows in the issue of health, forks being worse for you.

Social- as i already proved the speed of can be blamed on the tools they use

Price and environment- in my statement i did not state wooden chopsticks had to be used korean style stainless steal chopsticks is much cheaper then a set of forks.

now i will correct my opponents arguements

1 i will admit that the fork is much easier to use yes anyone can take a shovel shaped object and shovel food into that gaping hole in their face i would like to tell my opponent that all people in japan have learned to use chopsticks well unless their is something physically wrong with these people you know they must not be trying hard enough to learn but once they do learn the art of a chopstick does undoubtedly increase hand eye coordination and that is yet another contribution on why chopsticks are the better utensil.

2. you limit your social gatherings too much America is not the only country in the world you argue that we often want impress others in countrys such as japan or Korea it is seen that in a ceremonial dinner a fork set at a table would be an insult you would basically be calling your guest a Neanderthal using chopsticks can be seen as an art this art demostrates status in many country's your example does not hold water because if u did not know how to use the chopsticks why would they be the only utensil you could use.

3 yes i do admit it is easier to learn how to use a shovel to eat then a chopstick but i do not agree on the second statement i learned how to use chopsticks on my own with no help i watched them being used a few times and then i tried took me about 10 minutes to get it down now i can easily use my chopsticks.

4 your forth statement holds no water at all it is just repeaing your previous statements while adding in 2 things that chopsticks can to spearing... are u serious what shape is a chopstick scooping is a bit harder but can be done as u see when u see someone eating rice with a chopstick they scoop the rice from the bowl into their mouth but getting less rice then the scooping from the fork which proves my first argument with the issue on health smaller bites are much better for your indigestion.

5 i never said what syle of chopsticks were better i will now put out that korean chopsticks are stainless steel just like forks are made from many different materials so are chopsticks their are plastic metal and wood same as forks a metal chopstick and metal forks both have the same impact on the enviroment
burningpuppies101

Con

No offense, but please post arguments on time next time. I don't want to sound mean, but being new has no excuse.

I'll go through my opponent's points just like last time. I suggest my opponent do the same, is it was very confusing to read his speech.



Ok, you contradict yourself. You claim that chopsticks are hard to use to shovel in food. Then you state later on that you are proficient with chopsticks. If you are proficient with chopsticks, then you must therefore be good enough that you can eat at a reasonable pace, or you wouldn't consider yourself proficient. Can you please elaborate as to your skill level with chopsticks, as in how you use them. Also, as a separate point, you can't blame people for the tools they use. That would be like blaming the treadmill for making people skinny since using a treadmill is efficient in getting you fit. Therefore, treadmills are worse than walking. Or something ridiculous like that. Here's a better example: It is like blaming the All in one Fitness Machine for making people skinny since it is good at getting people in shape. You cannot blame an inanimate object for a person's problems. That is silly.


Also, you refute yourself in your first speech. I'll point that out now. Here's a quote: "well kids these days just don't apreciate that time they share and just shovel their food in as fast as they can." You said it yourself. KIDS DON'T APPRECIATE THE TIME THEY SHARE. And they use tools to increase their ability at not appreciating the time they share. Also, you offer no proof to this claim. So we can disregard your entire argument, so I win this point.



I never said that only wooden chopsticks had to be used. I said that for the most part, most chopsticks are made out of wood, and that adversely affects the environment. You really haven't said anything about my point.

~~~

Comments on my opponents refutations of my points:

1. Thank you for conceding the point.
Also, you offer no proof to your claim. We can therefore disregard it. But just in case you find evidence of this, here's my response: I would like to kindly ask my opponent not to insult my friends. Also, there are many ways to increase hand eye coordination, such as doing sports like baseball, tennis, so on. Using chopsticks isn't the only way. And I'm doubting that too. Plus, forks increase your hand eye coordination. Here's my proof: When you use a fork, you use your eyes to guide your hand to the food. You use your eyes to gather information as to what you should tell your hands to do. Doing this enough increases the ability for your eyes to communicate with your hands, therefore increasing your hand eye coordination. I have just proved that forks also increase hand eye coordination. Therefore, forks and chopsticks are equal in this aspect.

2. This is my point. Fine, I limited it to America, but my point can be extended to the rest of the world. Imagine yourself going to Japan or Korea. You consider yourself proficient with chopsticks, but while in Japan/ Korea, you meet with a whole bunch of executives. You meet over dinner, and all the other people, having used chopsticks all their lives, are completely proficient and are experts at using chopsticks. You on the other hand, use chopsticks with some confidence, but everyone else clearly sees that your technique is poor. You would just insult everyone by claiming you can use chopsticks, while in fact you cannot use them with the technique and skill of everyone else. Also, there is nothing wrong with asking for a fork. You don't have to give everyone a fork, just give it to those who ask for one. Asking for a fork shows that you respect everyone else at the table enough not to insult them with your attempts at using chopsticks. And my example does hold water because no where in my example did I say that chopsticks were the only utensil you had the ability to use.

3. Thanks for conceding the point. You just conceded that forks are easier to use than chopsticks, and therefore better.
To your claim that you can use chopsticks, no offense, but I doubt that you can use them with the ease of someone who has learned how to use chopsticks since they were born. Please elaborate on your skill level with chopsticks. Rate yourself using this:
1. Not at all.
2. Sort of.
3. I hold the chopsticks in a fist.
4. I hold the first chopstick like I would hold a pencil, and the other stays still.
5. I can pick up marbles.
6. I do not drop things after I pick them up.
7. I am as good as someone who has been using them their whole life.

Please state all that apply to you.

4. My fourth statement holds lots of water actually. You conceded the point yourself: "ust repeaing your previous statements while adding in 2 things that chopsticks can to spearing" SO you agree that forks can do more. And your point about indigestion; look above. You can't blame tools for human error.

5. So in this refutation, you try to limit the topic to arguing about Korean chopsticks, because they are made of stainless steel. You can't do that. You have to defend all chopsticks. Also, how often you use a wooden fork? Also, if you look at the link I provided in my first speech, you will realize that the majority of chopsticks are made out of wood. They do not have the same impact on the environment because of the demand. I agree, if you were to consider one pair of chopsticks to one fork, it is possible that the environmental impact is the same. However, more than one pair of chopsticks exist. You have to show why even though a vast majority of the chopsticks are made out of wood and are made by the billions, they harm the environment much less than forks, where the demand is much lower.

~~~

In conclusion, I have shown why again, all my opponents points are irrelevant or matter very little to the debate, and I have shown why all of my arguments have fallen through my opponents speech. Here they are again:

1. Ease of use. My opponent actually fails to refute this one, and instead concedes it.
2. Better for social gatherings. My opponent attacks me with a personal attack, and doesn't actually address the issue.
3. Ease of learning. He also concedes this point.
4. More Utility. My opponent again attacks with a personal attack, and fails to refute my point, and is shown to concede the point.
5. Less Impact. My opponent tries to limit the topic and fails to refute the point.

So as of this round, I am winning.

Thank you

Note to opponent: Please use grammar and spelling. It took me 15 minutes to decipher your speech before I could argue against it. Don't want to sound mean, but its the truth.
Debate Round No. 3
frulockxxx

Pro

Ok, you contradict yourself. You claim that chopsticks are hard to use to shovel in food. Then you state later on that you are proficient with chopsticks. If you are proficient with chopsticks, then you must therefore be good enough that you can eat at a reasonable pace, or you wouldn't consider yourself proficient. Can you please elaborate as to your skill level with chopsticks, as in how you use them. Also, as a separate point, you can't blame people for the tools they use. That would be like blaming the treadmill for making people skinny since using a treadmill is efficient in getting you fit. Therefore, treadmills are worse than walking. Or something ridiculous like that. Here's a better example: It is like blaming the All in one Fitness Machine for making people skinny since it is good at getting people in shape. You cannot blame an inanimate object for a person's problems. That is silly.

first off i do not understand how me as a whole relates to the entire population in using chopsticks. but if u need to know i can catch grapes while people toss them at me yes i feel i am good but i still cannot possibly eat with chopsticks as fast i can with a shovel/fork and as for your arguement on not blaming the "tool" yes u are correct about this but the fork is a tool that makes it easier to eat that fast i know it is completely up to the person how fast the person wants to eat heres my example i was argueing this with a classmate and he brought the same thing as you he told me u can't blame the fork its the self control of the person then he told me when he was yound he ate really fast and because of that his parents gave him a tiny fork to use. when he used the tiny fork he was still eating pretty fast but he was getting smaller portions and chopsticks can't go as fast plus u usally get smaller portions so if u understand this example then then u should see that my chopsticks are like his small fork.

Also, you refute yourself in your first speech. I'll point that out now. Here's a quote: "well kids these days just don't apreciate that time they share and just shovel their food in as fast as they can." You said it yourself. KIDS DON'T APPRECIATE THE TIME THEY SHARE. And they use tools to increase their ability at not appreciating the time they share. Also, you offer no proof to this claim. So we can disregard your entire argument, so I win this point.

im sorry u completely disregarded the portion of speed my arguement, this arguement is the same based on speed
so in actuality you have lost this argument and so i win this point

I never said that only wooden chopsticks had to be used. I said that for the most part, most chopsticks are made out of wood, and that adversely affects the environment. You really haven't said anything about my point.

cause your point did not pertain at all to korean style chopsticks whitch are made of metal

1. Thank you for conceding the point.
Also, you offer no proof to your claim. We can therefore disregard it. But just in case you find evidence of this, here's my response: I would like to kindly ask my opponent not to insult my friends. Also, there are many ways to increase hand eye coordination, such as doing sports like baseball, tennis, so on. Using chopsticks isn't the only way. And I'm doubting that too. Plus, forks increase your hand eye coordination. Here's my proof: When you use a fork, you use your eyes to guide your hand to the food. You use your eyes to gather information as to what you should tell your hands to do. Doing this enough increases the ability for your eyes to communicate with your hands, therefore increasing your hand eye coordination. I have just proved that forks also increase hand eye coordination. Therefore, forks and chopsticks are equal in this aspect.

i do not understand how u don't see how u cannot tell that chopsticks help to increase your hand eye cordination any activity involving cordinating your hands with what u see the more complicated the task the better it is for your hand eye cordination then in your arguement you compare forks as equal i find u are mistaken you yourself said that the chopsticks are hard to use and so you must have to admit that that chopsticks are superior in this topic (and about ur friend i did not insult him i wondered y u were lieing because a month of practicing it and still not getting it is obviously a exaggeration.)

2. This is my point. Fine, I limited it to America, but my point can be extended to the rest of the world. Imagine yourself going to Japan or Korea. You consider yourself proficient with chopsticks, but while in Japan/ Korea, you meet with a whole bunch of executives. You meet over dinner, and all the other people, having used chopsticks all their lives, are completely proficient and are experts at using chopsticks. You on the other hand, use chopsticks with some confidence, but everyone else clearly sees that your technique is poor. You would just insult everyone by claiming you can use chopsticks, while in fact you cannot use them with the technique and skill of everyone else. Also, there is nothing wrong with asking for a fork. You don't have to give everyone a fork, just give it to those who ask for one. Asking for a fork shows that you respect everyone else at the table enough not to insult them with your attempts at using chopsticks. And my example does hold water because no where in my example did I say that chopsticks were the only utensil you had the ability to use.

looking at your example all i can think of is when a big company goes over to meet foreign corpuation they do tons of research on their customs and learn their differen't manners since we are going into their country to make a deal we should learn their customs and not try to bring our own into the mix if george bush could do it i am a strong believer that anyone can

3. Thanks for conceding the point. You just conceded that forks are easier to use than chopsticks, and therefore better.
To your claim that you can use chopsticks, no offense, but I doubt that you can use them with the ease of someone who has learned how to use chopsticks since they were born. Please elaborate on your skill level with chopsticks. Rate yourself using this:
1. Not at all.
2. Sort of.
3. I hold the chopsticks in a fist.
4. I hold the first chopstick like I would hold a pencil, and the other stays still.
5. I can pick up marbles.
6. I do not drop things after I pick them up.
7. I am as good as someone who has been using them their whole life.

My fourth statement holds lots of water actually. You conceded the point yourself: "ust repeaing your previous statements while adding in 2 things that chopsticks can to spearing" SO you agree that forks can do more. And your point about indigestion; look above. You can't blame tools for human error.

first i will state that i am able catch a grape if tossed to me i don't often use chopsticks once and awhile and to have fun second i did not doncede to ur 3rd or 4th argument please read what i said more carefully

So in this refutation, you try to limit the topic to arguing about Korean chopsticks, because they are made of stainless(sorry i limited this lol i ran out of characters

first i would like to state if i have to focus on all types then u also have to defend all forks second if we have to argue all types then i guess i will change the arguement i found this point elsewhere when researching Chopsticks are biodegradable. It sounds like a silly point, but if you think about all of the silverwear that gets thrown away from houses and and restaurants, you can only imagine just how much silverwear is forever buried underneath us. Now metal is not that harmful to the earth, but the wood that the chopsticks are made out of is beneficial to the enviroment. It will decomspose and become fertile soil. Metal forks cannot say that. So point one: Chopsticks are more enviromentally friendly.
burningpuppies101

Con

Again, I would like to ask my opponent to use spell check.

So I'm just going to go through my opponents points and refute them in order.

1. In this argument, my opponent speaks about chopsticks being tools, and how chopsticks are less efficient than forks, and therefore better for you health. I make the argument that we shouldn't be arguing that the tools create the problem, it is the person who uses the tool. You cannot blame the knife for stabbing someone, just like you can't blame the gun for killing someone. You conceded that point in your own circular way, talking about how a friend of yours uses a tiny fork because he eats too fast. You prove it yourself. Your friend eats too fast, so he is given a smaller fork. It is because of him he is given a different tool, so it is your friends fault, not the tool.

2. I did not disregard the portion of speed. I merely took care of it with my first refutation. Look above.

3. In this point, my opponent talks about how korean style chopsticks do not apply to my point of environmental effect. It doesn't matter. I was attacking wooden chopsticks, which are the majority. I took care of the rest of the chopsticks in my other points, which conicidentally you drop.

4. Here is the point about hand eye coordination. You argue that chopsticks are harder to use, so it increases hand eye coordination. Here is my response. Chopsticks should be rated on their utility, not their side effects. The purpose of using chopsticks are not to increase hand eye coordination, it is to eat. Because the primary purpose of chopsticks is to eat, forks are superior for reasons I will show later.

5. So you argue that we should adopt other customs, as in a big company.... First, there is another example. You are a tourist, and go to visit friends. You meet for dinner, and are unable to use chopsticks. Horrific fail and embarrasment. Anyways, back to your example. Even if we learn their customs, that does not mean that we will be able to do everything they can do. No matter how much you practice with chopsticks, I'm sorry, but you will not be better than someone who has been using chopsticks since they were born.

6. SO in this point, my opponent tries to say that chopsticks are beneficial to the environment. This is simply not true. Look at the like I posted in the first speech. That article clearly shows that chopsticks are horrible for the environment. Even if they are biodegradable, they are not better than forks. You have to prove that forks are worse, and you haven't done so. And also, we don't throw away metal forks, we reuse them. So in reality, forks are still better.

CONCLUSION:

First, my opponent should use better structure, since it is very hard to decipher his speech.
Second, my opponent has not shown why forks are worse than chopsticks in terms of the environment. I have shown why chopsticks are worse for the environment, and I have sources backing me. My opponent has done nothing but make a claim.
Third, all we have been debating so far are all minor points. We forget one important thing. We forget the fact that we use chopsticks to eat, and forks to eat. Because the primary purpose of a utensil is to eat, we must judge primarily from that standpoint. In my first speech, I presented these points:
1. Forks are easier to use than chopsticks.
2. Forks are better for social gatherings.
3. Ease of learning.
4. More uses for forks than chopsticks.
5. Less impact.

My opponent has made no attacks on my first point. We can assume he agrees. Therefore, I have shown forks to be better in terms of ease of use.
My opponent has made attacks on my second point, but I have shown why he is wrong. Therefore, I have shown forks to be better in terms of social gatherings.
My opponent has also made no points against my point of; it is easier to learn how to use forks than chopsticks. He actually conceded. Therefore, I have shown forks to be better in terms of ease of use.
My opponent has not made any arguments against my points that there are more uses for forks than chopsticks. He concedes. Therefore I have shown that forks are better than chopsticks in terms of utility.
My opponent made a ridiculous claim that chopsticks are biodegrade-able and forks are not, so chopsticks are better. However, we do not throw away forks nearly as much as we throw away chopsticks. Also, I have shown that chopsticks are horrible for the environment, using my link. Therefore, I have shown forks to be better in terms of enviromental impact.

Note to audience: I only have to show that forks are better an any terms, since my opponent has not defined under what context, and I win the debate. Since my opponent has made no arguements against my points of ease of use, ease of learning, and utility, I win the debate on default.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
frulockxxx

Pro

frulockxxx forfeited this round.
burningpuppies101

Con

Extend all arguments.

Conclusion: My opponent's job in this debate was to show that chopsticks are better than forks. He argues this with several minor points, talking about the benifits of using a chopstick. However, he ignores the fact that utensils are used for eating, and therefore should be judged on their use for eating. That's where ALL of my points come in. Since my opponent ignore this, and I refute all his points, I win.

Thanks for the debate.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by ShenFlare 1 year ago
ShenFlare
There are several culture specific norms that chopsticks may be better for use than forks. Three examples include:

1) taking lobster meat out of a lobster tail without using your hands
2) removing shrimp shells with your mouth and chopsticks without using hands
3) eating peanuts on a small plate that was served as an appetizer for a family style meal without picking with your hands (precision is required in a group setting)

There are other practical scenarios in asian culture where a fork may be the wrong tool to use
Posted by Rezzealaux 8 years ago
Rezzealaux
Forks ftw.
Posted by frulockxxx 8 years ago
frulockxxx
u know u want too
Posted by burningpuppies101 8 years ago
burningpuppies101
so tempted.....
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King_Jas
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Vote Placed by burningpuppies101 8 years ago
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frulockxxxburningpuppies101Tied
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