The Instigator
Lee001
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
taburkasaurusrex
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Christ was not born on December 25th.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Lee001
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 568 times Debate No: 70686
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

Lee001

Pro

Everybody likes to celebrate Christmas for many reason. The most important reason is because they believe Christ was born on December 25th. Also they use the term, keep "Christ, in Christmas" There are no references in the bible that says he was born on December 25th. So there's no possible way of knowing that he was born on December 25th.

Christ: the title, also treated as a name, given to Jesus of Nazareth

Christmas: . A Christian feast commemorating the birth of Jesus.

Sources: https://www.google.com...

https://search.yahoo.com...

First round is acceptance. Good luck!
taburkasaurusrex

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Lee001

Pro

Thank you for accepting. Good luck!

Lets begin on how Christ was born.

Jesus was born by Virgin Mary in a manger. The baby was conceived by the Holy Spirit fulfilling God's words through the prophets. He was born to be our saviour. His death on the cross and risen gives us another opportunity to live fully. You can read Matthew Chapter 1 https://www.biblegateway.com....
In this chapter it says noting about when he was born, neither dose it mention December.

Here are two primary reason why Christ couldn't have been born on December 25th.

1) "First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke:2:7-8)
. Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays , Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night"

2nd) "Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, "the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism" (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus , 1970, p. 62).

So there is not possible way or proof that Christ could have been born on December 25th.

Sources: http://www.ucg.org...
taburkasaurusrex

Con

"Cyril of Jerusalem (348-386) had access to the original Roman birth census, which also documented that Jesus was born on the 25th of December. The date eventually became the officially recognized date for Christmas in part because it coincided with the pagan festivals celebrating Saturnalia and the winter solstice." www.gotquestions.org/December-25.html

Scroll down in the following page until you get the point 2 of Argument for a late December birth. http://www.hebrew4christians.com...

"The angel Gabriel made his announcement to Mary (Miriam in Hebrew) "in the sixth month" of Elizabeth"s pregnancy (Lk. 1:26, 36), i.e. any time between 5 and 6 months after June 25th, 7 BC " let"s guess at December 11th (Kislev 22, 3755 AM). The message was "you shall conceive" (Lk. 1:31), so again, it would be reasonable to assume that Mary became pregnant some time during the following month " let"s guess at December 25th (Teveth 6) " if only because that would be remarkably appropriate day! Jesus would then have been born some nine months later " say September 25th, 6 BC (Tishri 15, 3756 AM), which just happens to be the date of the Feast of Tabernacles!" http://homepage.ntlworld.com...

I understand what the paragraph above says, but when a child is conceived in the womb it is now alive. That is why abortion is murder.
Debate Round No. 2
Lee001

Pro

My opponent states : "Cyril of Jerusalem (348-386) had access to the original Roman birth census, which also documented that Jesus was born on the 25th of December" Yet, he didn't provide any proof or sources that backs up his argument.

I don't clearly understand his statement :
The angel Gabriel made his announcement to Mary (Miriam in Hebrew) "in the sixth month" of Elizabeth"s pregnancy (Lk. 1:26, 36), i.e. any time between 5 and 6 months after June 25th, 7 BC " let"s guess at December 11th (Kislev 22, 3755 AM). The message was "you shall conceive" (Lk. 1:31), so again, it would be reasonable to assume that Mary became pregnant some time during the following month " let"s guess at December 25th (Teveth 6) " if only because that would be remarkably appropriate day! Jesus would then have been born some nine months later " say September 25th, 6 BC (Tishri 15, 3756 AM), which just happens to be the date of the Feast of Tabernacles!"

There are sure allot of "guesses" in that paragraph, yet non of them declare December 25th to be his Birth.

My Next Argument:

"Other evidence that December 25 is the wrong date for the birth of Jesus comes from early writings. Iranaeus, born about a century after Jesus, notes that Jesus was born in the 41st year of the reign of Augustus. Since Augustus began his reign in the autumn of 43 B.C., this appears to substantiate the birth of Jesus as the autumn of 2 B.C. Eusebius (A.D. 264-340), the "Father of Church History," ascribes it to the 42nd year of the reign of Augustus and the 28th from the subjection of Egypt on the death of Anthony and Cleopatra. The 42nd year of Augustus ran from the autumn of 2 B.C. to the autumn of 1 B.C. The subjugation of Egypt into the Roman Empire occurred in the autumn of 30 B.C. The 28th year extended from the autumn of 3 B.C. to the autumn of 2 B.C. The only date that would meet both of these constraints would be the autumn of 2 B.C.

John the Baptist also helps us determine that December 25 is not the birth of Jesus. Elizabeth, John's mother, was a cousin of Mary. John began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar. The minimum age for the ministry was 30. As Augustus died on August 19, A.D. 14, that was the accession year for Tiberius. If John was born on April 19-20, 2 B.C., his 30th birthday would have been April 19-20, A.D. 29, or the 15th year of Tiberius. This seems to confirm the 2 B.C. date, and, since John was 5 months older, this also confirms an autumn birth date for Jesus.

Another interesting fact comes from Elizabeth herself. She hid herself for 5 months and then the Angel Gabriel announced to Mary both Elizabeth's condition and that Mary would also bear a son who would be called Jesus. Mary went "with haste" to visit Elizabeth, who was then in the first week of her 6th month, or the 4th week of Dec., 3 B.C. If Jesus was born 280 days later it would place his birth on Sept. 29, 2 B.C. Some scholars interpret the 6 months to be in line with the Hebrew calendar or the August-September time frame. Since Mary's pregnancy commenced a little before the sixth month around July, Jesus would be born somewhere around March-June. But does it matter if Jesus was born on the spring, the fall, or on December 25? Does it matter, theologically, when Jesus was born? What do you think, does it matter what day we celebrate His birth? "

Sources: http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org...

http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org...
taburkasaurusrex

Con

taburkasaurusrex forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Lee001

Pro

I don't see any point of arguing anything in this round for I have made my points. Vote pro :)
taburkasaurusrex

Con

taburkasaurusrex forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Lee001 2 years ago
Lee001
Just message me sometime.
Posted by connorjfield 2 years ago
connorjfield
I'm turning this into a whole other debate and I apologize maybe sometime we can make it an actual debate.
Posted by connorjfield 2 years ago
connorjfield
so is saying "everybody likes Christmas" There again is no record of his existence anywhere. How is that possible?
Posted by Lee001 2 years ago
Lee001
That is your own opinion, so that doesn't make it a fact.
Posted by connorjfield 2 years ago
connorjfield
There is absolutely no historical record of Jesus' existence. He is a fictional character, so no he was not born on Dec 25 or Oct 19 or February 38.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Illegalcombatant 2 years ago
Illegalcombatant
Lee001taburkasaurusrexTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: 2 rounds forfeit by Con
Vote Placed by Paleophyte 2 years ago
Paleophyte
Lee001taburkasaurusrexTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit