The Instigator
SOLARIS2020
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
wierdman
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points

Christian/Catholic USA residents are aiding in the collapse of the USA economy.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
wierdman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/22/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,533 times Debate No: 17615
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (14)
Votes (4)

 

SOLARIS2020

Pro

I am PRO on the debate: Christian and Catholic residents of the USA are one of the largest groups in the USA perpetuating the ongoing collapse of the USA economy, causing financial hardship to their neighbors, friends, relatives, and even to themselves with the boomerang effect as they fail to do what is right, moral, and honorable.

CLARIFICATIONS:

By stating, "are one of the largest groups", I am referring to Christian/Catholics collectively as home owners who have breached their contractual obligation as borrowers.

According to PEW FORUM ON RELIGION & PUBLIC LIFE:

78.4% of Adults in America are CHRISTIAN, of which 23.9% are CATHOLIC.

www.religions.pewforum.org/reports

According to CENSUS OF HOUSING:

In the year 2000, in the USA there was a 66.2% HOMEOWNERSHIP RATE.

According to the National Association of Realtors homeownership spiked to 69% in 2004 and 2005, and as of the 3rd quarter of 2010, it fell to 66.9%.
www.nar.org homeownership statistics

This is a political debate, not a religious debate per se, hence no Bible references, quotes, etc. Christians greatly influence USA political policy. The housing collapse and economic collapse is largely influenced by what our Christian brothers and sisters do and don't do.

Of course, the buck does not stop at the Christian ATM housing machine and this is not the blame game, it is moreso to identify the large voting group claiming to be Christians/Catholics and how their actions or lack of actions thereof are directly affecting all of America's residents.

ROUND 1: Acceptance, miscellaneous comments.
ROUND 2: Opening Argument.
ROUND 3: Rebuttal.
ROUND 4: Final Rebuttal.
ROUND 5: Closing Argument.

Both Instigator and Contender must cite any/all material referenced. Neither Instigator or Contender shall use The Bible or any religious references (this is a Political, not a Religious debate).
wierdman

Con

Thanks for this debate
Christians although the largest religion in the United States do not proof to be the direct cause of our economic downfall.

I look forward to hearing from you.
Debate Round No. 1
SOLARIS2020

Pro

SOLARIS2020 forfeited this round.
wierdman

Con

Due to the fact that my opponent did not post her debate, i am unable to fully understand her point of view on this topic. My opponent failed to realize that you can not blame the fall of the American economy solely on Christians as they are not the only ones who contribute to the many factors of our economic collapse. My opponent stated that "78.4% of Adults in America are CHRISTIAN, of which 23.9% are CATHOLIC." ;however she failed to realize that this piece of evidence does not justify that Christians are the sole reason the United States economy is failing.

The United states economy is like a tall tower in that it consists of many fundamental pieces. one of this piece is the individual American however to completely isolate a group of people and tell them that they are the main contributors tho the economic downfall would be seclusion. Further more after exclusive research, i found no study or survey that states that Christianity are the main factor of economic depression.

To conclude my point, i would like to state some of the REAL factors that contribute to our economic downfall: First, our Government passes the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 in an effort to assist low-income individuals to buy homes.
The CRA of 1977 simply "encourages" banks to make a certain amount of loans to low-income individuals. No enforcement or penalty for not being "encouraged"…yet.
In the mid 1990′s the HUD department of the Government begins requiring banks to prove they are making the right number of low-income loans.
Banks not making the government imposed, and now enforced "quota," are penalized.
The Clinton and Bush administrations with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd use the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 to force banks to make loans to unqualified people in the name of making homes affordable to everyone. This guarantees votes for the politicians. They ignore the likely economic outcome of giving loans to people who can't pay them back.
If the banks don't make the loans to unqualified borrowers, our Government prevents banks from opening new branches, new ATM's or expanding. Every bank knows if they don't accept the invite to the Government party and start giving out loans to people who can't pay them back, SOME bank will….which will force other banks out of business as the bank willing to play this game gets to expand and take market share from the other banks, who are denied by our Government every application to expand.
At the same time, both Republican and Democrat politicians in Washington and the bankers of The Fed attempt to manipulate the economy by lowering interest rates to boost economic growth.
Low interest rates reduce the costs of borrowing money which increases the number of home loans created, increasing the number of homes bought, thus reducing home inventory which raises prices.
As prices slowly rise, politicians continue to pander for votes by promising the American Dream and that owning a home is the right of every American. To backup that statement, they put the American taxpayer on the hook for every loan processed through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
As home prices rise, Fannie and Freddie, at the time both implied government entities (now explicit ones backed by taxpayer dollars) begin buying mortgages from the banks.
Between 1998 and 2003 Fannie & Freddie were the most frequent buyers of home loans.
Politicians encourage Fannie & Freddie to take on risky loans, and substantially lower their lending requirements, as Fannie CEO Daniel Mudd said, "…get aggressive on risk taking or get out of the company."
Unqualified borrowers (low-income, bad credit, no down-payment) are suddenly made "qualified" by banks being blackmailed by our own government.
Banks finally get the message that the government doesn't care how risky the loan is or how unlikely the borrower is to pay it back, so they learn to continue making home loans, no matter how risky, and just sell them off to Fannie and Freddie as fast as possible.
By the time Countrywide was out of business, 90% of their loans had been sold to Fannie & Freddie.
Fannie & Freddie have barely $83B in assets to cover a potential whopping loss of $5T in liabilities, an astounding and unheard of 60 to 1 ratio. Nobody in Washington cares because they know the taxpayer will foot the bill of all losses.
As these "unqualified" borrowers flood the market overnight buying houses, a rapid decrease in housing inventory begins inflating prices beyond normal ranges. Basic supply and demand principle.
Builders rush in and begin building homes but panic sets in as buyers continue to flood the market for fear of being "priced out forever." The National Association of Realtors (NAR) perpetuates this fear in the media to make more money through Realtor sales commissions.
Realtors routinely scare people during home buying process with claims such as, "they're not building any more land" and "the next phase release will cost more, better buy now."
Speculators enter the market, flipping homes for profit further driving supply down to ridiculously low levels which, through supply and demand, pushes prices even further into the stratosphere.
Buyers that would have been qualified at "normal" prices become unqualified as prices go out of even their range, fear sets in for them too so they begin using the same creative financing the banks were giving the original unqualified buyers to become qualified.
Wall Street creates investment vehicles that buy these unqualified mortgages from banks, mixes them together in pools of investments and resells them.
Normally, banks would be concerned that defaults from unqualified borrowers buying homes would cause the bank to fail. By selling these unqualified loans to Wall Street, the banks no longer have this fear.
Imagine being able to drink as much alcohol as you want and never getting sick. Now that the banks can unload every mortgage, toxic or not, onto Wall Street (to be bailed out eventually by the taxpayer) or the taxpayer directly (through Fannie and Freddie), they go on a drinking binge of epic proportions, with no fear of a hangover.
Banks enjoy all the fees they can charge for each loan they process and sell off to Wall Street or Fannie and Freddie. Banks accelerate loan processing to maximize fee revenue.
The Party rages on into the early morning hours…fraud permeates marketplace. Fraud from buyers, from banks, from Wall Street, from rating agencies, from Fannie & Freddie, from our Government.
There are no longer any "unqualified" buyers. Everyone can buy a house, even if they don't have a job, or any money.
Homeowners across the country see the rise in "value" of their own home and begin extracting that money from their home like an ATM machine buying cars, flat screens, iPods and taking vacations all over the world.
Our Government and The Fed see what is happening, but the economy is booming, money is flowing, the party is rocking…voters are exuberant…so the Government does nothing to stop the inevitable catastrophe. They know they can just point fingers at the Banks and Wall Street leveraging that ancient tactic of turning the masses against the "rich" which works like a charm every single time.
Home prices reach an unsustainable peak, the collapse begins.
The original unqualified borrowers begin defaulting on their mortgages and stop paying.
The Wall Street investment vehicles begin collapsing as borrowers default and a sudden and rapid exit from housing related investments occurs.
As the Wall Street investments collapse and more and more borrowers default, housing prices begin to plummet.
The unqualified "qualified" borrowers begin defaulting too.
Banks that were contractually liable for mortgage defaults they sold to Wall Street for 30 days begin to fail as Wall Street pushes those mortgages back on the banks. Banks begin collapsing.
"http://angrywoodchucksblog.com...;
Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
SOLARIS2020

Pro

SOLARIS2020 forfeited this round.
wierdman

Con

my opponent has forfeited. I am sill waiting for her post
Debate Round No. 3
SOLARIS2020

Pro

SOLARIS2020 forfeited this round.
wierdman

Con

my opponent has forfeited again.
Debate Round No. 4
SOLARIS2020

Pro

SOLARIS2020 forfeited this round.
wierdman

Con

Since my opponent has forfeited yet again, i urge you kind voters to please vote for me.
Debate Round No. 5
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
Who are those weirdoes, Double_R?
Posted by wierdman 5 years ago
wierdman
lol
Posted by Double_R 5 years ago
Double_R
Yea I think she got tired of all of the weirdoes here who have this strange need to make sense.
Posted by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
Wow: Pro instigated a debate, and then just deactivated her account. At least this will guarentee a victory for wierdman.
Posted by wierdman 5 years ago
wierdman
can you just post!
Posted by aircraftmechgirl 5 years ago
aircraftmechgirl
Honestly, the religious practice argument is completely asinine. I'm really hoping she doesn't go there because that's basically like saying Jews are responsible for farming being in trouble because they don't eat pork. It's one of those things where you sit there and say..."huh"?
Posted by Double_R 5 years ago
Double_R
I agree, I still don't know what she is trying to say. If 78.4% of America's adults are Christian then it is pretty much impossible for them to not be contributing to an economic collapse. Or is she trying to say it is because of their religious practices? 18 hours till her R2 argument is due. We will soon see.
Posted by aircraftmechgirl 5 years ago
aircraftmechgirl
This is going to be fun. lol. I honestly can't see how Pro is going to pull this off, since she is putting the entire thing on Christians/Catholics and home ownership. I'm not connecting the dots.
Posted by wierdman 5 years ago
wierdman
please post your debate soon...
thank you..
Posted by SOLARIS2020 5 years ago
SOLARIS2020
thanx for the words of wisdom to those taking the time to give me some pointers as I am a newbie in the arena of debate, I am having a great time and learning a lot from all you good people... hopefully with your help, I will become a worthy competitor as a warrior with words!
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
SOLARIS2020wierdmanTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not make a case. I can't guess what her point might be.
Vote Placed by 000ike 5 years ago
000ike
SOLARIS2020wierdmanTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture lent conduct and convincing argument to Con. As for reliable sources, Con had 1, Pro had 0.
Vote Placed by innomen 5 years ago
innomen
SOLARIS2020wierdmanTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Obvious
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
SOLARIS2020wierdmanTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited. Con argued, and did not forfeit any of his rounds in this debate.