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The Contender
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(Christian Debate Only) - The laws are done away with and Christians don't have to follow them

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,067 times Debate No: 68164
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)




ONLY a Christian who believes that they do not have to follow the 10 commandments anymore can accept this challenge. My opponent cannot change the topic of the debate. Only the commandments are to be spoken of in this debate, nothing else.

A couple days ago, I got into an argument with a Christian who believes they are free from the commandments The Most High still commands us to keep. My main goal here is to teach Christians that they are not being taught the Bible, rather, they are being taught man-made doctrine.

For the first round, I ask my opponent to accept and agree to the terms of this debate.

In the second round, I will provide my supporting evidence to support my claim. My opponent then must refute my claim and provide me with SCRIPTURE ONLY, stating:

1. The Messiah YAHUSHUAH, or the Christian "Jesus Christ," came to destroy the laws.


2. Scripture stating the laws no longer need to be followed.

I thank my opponent for accepting and happy debating :)



I accept this debate, though counter with the totally unreasonable claim that "Christ came to destroy the law."

This is totally unfair to ask for from my opponent as Christ explicitly said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

I will however, argue that Christians are no longer under the Mosiac Law, specifically the 10 commandments, which is the primary thrust of the debate topic.

I hope Con can agree to these terms,

Best Regards,
Debate Round No. 1


I thank my opponent for accepting this challenge/debate, good luck to him/her.
My opponent quotes this verse from Matthew 5:17. Since the laws are not abolished it means that they are still in effect, otherwise, they would’ve been abolished. According to scripture the law stands forever.
I will also provide precepts for my opponent, as precepts are the only way to truly understand the Bible. I also ask my opponent to provide precepts for his/her claims.
Psalms 119:128 - Therefore I esteem allthypreceptsconcerningallthings to beright; andI hate every false way.
2 Kings 17:37And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do forevermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.
Evermore- Always; continually; forever.
Precept to 2 Kings 17:37:
Deuteronomy 5:31-32But as for thee, standthou here by me, and I will speak unto thee all the commandments, and thestatutes, and the judgments, which thou shalt teach them, that they may dothemin the land which I give them to possess it.
32Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: yeshall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. Matthew 5:17-18Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: Iam not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you,till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,till all be fulfilled.
Precepts to Matthew 5:17: Deuteronomy 9:24Ye have been rebellious against the Most High from the day that I knew you. Romans 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. Galatians 3:24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Precept to Matthew 5:18: Luke 16:17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. Psalms 78:5-8For he establisheda testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: 6That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: 7That they might set their hope in AHAYAH, and not forget the works of AHAYAH, but keep his commandments: 8And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with AHAYAH. Precept to Psalms 78:6: Psalms 102:18This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which shall be created shall praise the Most High. Psalms 119:1Blessed are the undefiled in the way,who walk in the law of the Most High. Precept to Psalms 119:1: Psalms 128:1Blessed is every one that feareth the Most High; that walketh in his ways. Psalms 119:44So shallI keep thy law continually for ever and ever. Psalms 119:142Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, andthy law is the truth. Precepts to Psalms 119:142: Psalms 19:9The fear of the Most High is clean, enduring forever: the judgments of the Most High are true and righteous altogether. John 17:17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Ephesians 1:13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise. Proverbs 7:2-3Keep my commandments, and live;and my law as the apple of thine eye. 3Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart. Precepts to Proverbs 7:2: Leviticus 18:5Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Most High. Isaiah 55:3Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Deuteronomy 32:10He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. Proverbs 28:4Theythat forsake the law praise the wicked: but such askeep the law contend with them. Precepts to Proverbs 28:4: 1 Kings 18:18And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the Most High, and thou hast followed Baalim.
Matthew 3:7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them Proverbs 28:9He that turneth awayhis ear fromhearing the law,even his prayershall beabomination. Precepts to Proverbs 28:9: 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine;but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itchingears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, andshall be turned unto fables. Psalms 66:18If I regard iniquity inmy heart, the Lord will not hearme: Luke 13:25-27 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut tothe door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord,Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whenceye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thypresence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are;depart from me, all ye workers of iniquitie
Isaiah 8:20To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them Isaiah 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that willnot hear the law of the Most High: Precept to Isaiah 30:9: Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me:seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children
Malachi 4:4Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Precept to Malachi 4:4: Deuteronomy 4:10Specially the day that thou stoodest before the Most High thy power in Horeb, when theMostHighsaid unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children Luke 16:17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass,than one tittle of the law to fail. Precepts to Luke 16:17: Psalms 102:26-27they shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: 27But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end. Isaiah 40:8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. 1 Peter 1:25But the word of the Most High endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. Romans 2:13For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but thedoers of thelawshall be justified. Precept to Romans 2:13: Deuteronomy 30:12-14 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shallgo up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13Neitheris it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over thesea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and doit? 14Butthe word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, thatthou mayest do it. Ezekiel 20:11And I gave them mystatutes, and shewed them my judgments, whichifa man do, he shalleven live in them. Luke 8:21And he answered andsaid unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God,and do it. Romans 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, weestablishthe law. Establish-1. To bring about permanently.
2. To make secure or permanent in a certain place, condition, job, etc. 3. To show to be valid or true; prove. Romans 7:12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Precepts to Romans 7:12: Psalms 19:8The statutes of the Most High are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Most High is pure, enlightening the eyes. 1 Timothy 1:8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1 John 3:4Whosoever committethsin transgresseth also the law: forsin is the transgression of the law. 2 Esdras 7:19-20And he said unto me. There is no judge above God, and none thathath understanding above the Highest.20For there be many that perish inthis life, because they despise the law of God that is set before them.Ecclesiasticus 33:2A wise man hateth not the law; but he that is an hypocrite therein is as a ship in a storm.Ecclesiasticus 11:15Wisdom, knowledge, and understanding of the law, are of the Most High: love, and the way of good works, are from him.The whole conclusion is to keep the laws of the Most High. The law stands forever, so its important for us as a Chosen people to keep the laws so we can be a light tothe Gentiles. All who dont keep the law you will perish, so please keep the law.Baruch 4:1 This is the book of the commandments of the Most High, and the law that endureth forever: all they that keep it shall come to life; but such as leave it shall die.


I thank my opponent for starting this debate, and would like to now present my argument supporting the proposition that Christians are no longer under law.

Argument #1: Christians No Longer Under Law

Argument #2: The Purpose of the Mosaic Law

Argument #1 l Christians No Longer Under Law

“For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.”[1]

I will argue that the consistent teaching of the New Testament is that the Believer in Christ is no longer under law, but under grace.

This text above explicitly states my case on this matter that we are no longer under law, but under grace. The word for “under” in the Greek is the preposition hypo which means under in this context, and denotes being under authority not of course being literally located under.[2]

What does it then mean to no longer be under the law? Let’s look at what Paul anticipates for such a response.

What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!”[3]

Notice, he presumes the person being told that they are no longer under law, but under grace that they can sin freely. This of course is not the case, and not for the reason of the Christian still being obligated to follow the Mosaic Law, but rather to avoid becoming a slave to sin and that in Christ is one truly fruitful.

Moving on to the next citation for this teaching, we move to the next Chapter, where Paul uses the analogy of marriage.

Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.”[4]

In this text, Paul is likening our release from the Law, to a woman in marriage whose husband die. If the husband is alive, she is still bound, but if he dies she is free to marry another. So to in this analogy, that because we have died to the law through Christ, we now belong to Him, not the law and are not subject or under the law. This then changes the way we serve, not in rule keeping and obedience to the written law, but in the new way of the Spirit, which I will summarize as faith working through love.

There are many more texts that argue the point, and if necessary I will bring them up later.

Argument #2 l The Purpose of the Mosaic Law

So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.”[5]

The Law, Paul argues, was but a Guardian someone who is there temporarily to protect and care for children, namely the Children of Israel. This temporary law was to be present “until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made,”[6] which of course is Jesus the Messiah.

This is the primary purpose of the law, and it was this purpose that he was to fulfill. Since he has come, we are no longer under the Guardian, which is the law. Rather we are adopts sons of God through Christ and not subject to the law any longer.

Best Regards,


[1] Romans 6:14 (ESV)


[3] Romans 6:15 (ESV)

[4] Romans 7:1-6 (ESV)

[5] Galatians 3:24-26 (ESV)

[6] Galatians 3:19 (ESV)

Debate Round No. 2


My opponent DID NOT providing any precepts for his claims which I stated at the beginning of round 2, which also causes confusion. It causes believers to believe that the Bible has many contradictions. If you do not have precepts, you are not teaching the truth. Through precepts you gain understanding. Psalm 119:104 - Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

The Book of Galatians is written for the seed of Abraham. Who is the seed of Abraham you may ask. The seed of Abraham is the real 12 tribes of Israel today (the Israelites.). Instead of allowing the Bible to interpret itself, most people read into scripture whatever meaning they already have been handed and assume is correct. They gloss over what Christ said in Matthew 5:17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am come not to destroy, but to fulfill”. This is the same Messiah who prophesied in Isaiah 42: “The LORD is well pleased for His righteousness’ sake; He will magnify the law, and make it honorable” (vs. 21). Now to refute my opponents claims I provide these verses that clearly state one must still keep the commandments. I would also like my opponent to keep in mind that all the laws have been quoted and repeated by The Messiah in the New Covenant.

I want to point out again Matthew 5:17 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Although some mistakenly think that “fulfill” in this passage means to complete and thereforeabolish, what Jesus said afterwards shows this could not be the case. Continuing, Jesus said: “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (verses 18-19).

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (This verse is referring to the real 12 Tribes of Israel today. The remnant of her seed, is Israel and those Israelites who keep the commandments. Now, just as the Israelites are still to keep the commandments, so are the Gentiles who want to enter our Kingdom.)

Luke 2:22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

John 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

1 Corinthians 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Realizing that Jesus consistently upheld all of the commandments, including observing the seventh-day Sabbath (Matthew 19:17-19; Luke 4:16), some wrongly suggest that it was the apostle Paul, with Jesus’ personal approval, who introduced grace and the abolishment of the law.

The 10 Commandments given by God in the Old Testament continue to be God’s expectations of Christians today. The truth is that Jesus did not change His mind about the importance of keeping all of the 10 Commandments. As Hebrews 13:8 states: “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.”

Toward the end of the first century—some 60 years after His death and resurrection—Jesus revealed end-time instructions through John in the book of Revelation. In this book He identifies faithful members of His Church as those “who keep the commandments of God” (Revelation 12:17). Some of the final words of the Bible and this revelation of Jesus Christ likewise state: “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14).



I provided applicable teachings from the Apostle Paul, which directly address the matter of the Law's relation to the believer in Christ. Perhaps he can comment on how these do not weigh on the matter, as they are statements about the relationship, not necessarily stated in a commanding way.

Rebuttal #1: Book of Galatians

The Book of Galatians is written for the church in Galatia,[1] which was mostly Gentile. My opponent has not really even addressed my exegesis of Galatians 3, but has instead asserted that I read in my own interpretation. I will let the voter decide as this is an unjustified assertion on the part of my opponent.

Rebuttal #2: Fulfilled the Law

He is talking about the righteous requirement of the Law, which is not fulfilled in those who by rule keeping hold to the Mosaic Law, Paul rather reveals.

"For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."[2]

Notice again the language of fulfillment, in that the righteousness that the Law was meant to create, was fulfilled not through law-keeping, but through Spirit led life on account of Jesus' death burial and resurrection.

Rebuttal #3: Rapid-Fire Proof-texting

I will not spend time addressing all these texts, as my opponent assumes that they simply support his case, without explaining how they do.

Rebuttal #4: Keep the commandments of God?

My opponent has simply missed the point of what has changed in the New Testament, that through the act of love, one now fulfills the purpose of the law.

"Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."[3]

This means that being under the law is no longer necessary, that we have been released from the law and now belong to Christ, who in our faith working through love acheives what the law could not.

Thus my opponent simply ignores Paul's New Testament teachings and indeed consistent message of all the New Testament, but most explicitly laid down teachings by Paul who discussed the issue as he was an Apostle to the Gentiles.

Best Regards,

[1] Galatians 1:2 (ESV)
[2] Romans 8:3-4 (ESV)
[3] Romans 13:8-10 (ESV)

Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Esiar 2 years ago
Or, maybe 9/10. I think the sabbath may be done away with like certain foods. I think Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16-17 suggest that.
Posted by Esiar 2 years ago
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery (Thou shalt not commit adultery: whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.), fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry (Thou shalt have no other gods before me, thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image), witchcraft, hatred (Thou shalt not kill: whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment), variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings (Without love, I am nothing: Love envies not), murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

This shows that people who brake at least 5 of the 10 commandments and not repent are with go to Hell.

"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord."
Make that 6.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
Make that all of them.
Posted by A-True-Saint 2 years ago
The commandments is now to love. Love one another or love YAHUAH or both?
Posted by A-True-Saint 2 years ago
You know what a precept is but you never gave any. You gave verses that are similar to each other.

By the way in John 14:15 states, If ye love me, keep my commandments; commandments is plural, meaning more than one. What does that verse mean, since I don't know the bible?

The book of Romans is a hard book to understand. Again, if you do not have precepts, you will not understand the Bible.
Posted by TrueScotsman 2 years ago
I also know what a precept is, as I mentioned.

"Perhaps he can comment on how these do not weigh on the matter, as they are statements about the relationship, not necessarily stated in a commanding way."
Posted by TrueScotsman 2 years ago
One cannot commit adultery, because the commandment is now to love, and love does not wrong to it's neighbor. Please consult Romans 13.
Posted by A-True-Saint 2 years ago
I would also like to inform my opponent of what a precept is. A precept is not a verse that is similar to another verse. A precept, according to the Hebrews Stongs Concordance, is a commandment; statue. Therefore, if you do not have precept for the verses you provided, they are not true, and you do not have true understanding of the Bible. The Law of Moses is still in effect; as Hebrews 10:28 states, "He that despised Moses law died without mercy under two or three witnesses." That is clearly stating that Moses Law is still in effect.
Posted by A-True-Saint 2 years ago
I ask my opponent this question. If the laws are done away with, can one commit adultery and inherit the kingdom?
Posted by Esiar 2 years ago
Yeah, I know. That's why I said, "It will be very easy to correct your opponent (If he will get the eyes to see)"

I was basically saying that you're so obviously right (You can look at John 14:15 and 1 Corinthians 16:22), that your bound to win, and that if your opponent has the eyes to see they will repent. Good luck!
Posted by A-True-Saint 2 years ago
I'm not trying to win, but if I do, it is what it is. I simply want to show Christians that their pastors are the false prophets the apostle Paul warns us of. Gentiles and Christians need to be taught by the real Jew's, like myself. The real Jew's follow exactly what the Bible says, and that is what our life is based on. So if there is a Christian out there who believes they no longer have to keep the commandments, my worst fears would just be come true.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by MrJosh 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I will not award any points for arguments, since both PRO and CON did a great job of making their cases. The real problem here is that the bible actually supports both of these positions. I will, however, give both S&G as well as sources to PRO, because of a few errors made by CON, as well as PRO's use of an additional source.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: The instigator actually complained that the contender did not do what he requested be done in R2, not R1, but when the debate was already well under way. Further this request was not for point rebuttals, or cross examination, but a style of debate. This evens up the conduct lapse of pro doing a bit more than acceptance in R1. As for arguments, pro pretty much won matters with Galatians 3:24-26 (ESV), which the instigator's reply of "The Book of Galatians is written for the seed of Abraham. Who is the seed of Abraham you may ask." (sic) failed to properly rebut, and showed poor grammar (not enough to cost S&G). There were many more examples of pro's superior debate skills, but I do not feel like writing a multi-part RFD. S&G however was tipped by the instigator's vast shortage on quotation marks (it got better, but even a glance at R2... conduct could even be called into question for it).