Christian Theology Is Nothing More than Obfuscated and Exaggerated Lies
Debate Rounds (3)
There is absolutely no evidence for anything reported in the New Testament.
There is no evidence for the Legendary Jesus Christ that performed miracles and was supposedly Resurrected.
Even Saul never met Jesus and made much of his letters up out of his own attempts to take control of Christianity and made laws to suit his own personal goals and exaggerated Jesus to win over Pagans.
His writings started around 20 years after the Death of Jesus, so everything he wrote was from hearsay and thus details would be distorted or missing altogether, so it is difficult to believe any of his work as Honest or Factual.
The Gospels were even worse, as they did not appear for at least another 10 years after Saul's writings and probably borrowed much of their guff from Saul.
The Gospels all disagree on many important aspects of Jesus, such as the virgin birth and what date his execution was and what happened at the supposed crucifixion, including the final words uttered by Jesus, and how long Jesus walked around before the ascension.
So there is inconsistencies in everything concerning Jesus and nobody could recall accurately what was stated at the Sermons given by Jesus over 30 years after his death. So, as a person who has done historical research, I find it impossible that anybody could really draw up a convincing, verifiable profile of Jesus nor find any credibility within any of the Gospel tales.
From some New Testament Scholars comments, it is more likely that the Gospels were conjured up by apologists to con non-believers into thinking Jesus was better than the Gods they currently worshiped.
Sort of a Jesus is better than your God coercion fallacy to gain converts, which evidently worked, by the number of Christians on the planet today.
Though all of these practices of seducing converts produces Lies and more Exaggerated Lies.
These exaggerated lies have become the basis of Christian Theology.
When critics and skeptics of Christianity point out what I have briefly covered, they bring out highly skilled in language Apologists to Obfuscate the Biblical myths to make them appear Truthful and Valid.
This has become the practice of Apologetics or the Obfuscation of Nonsense to make it appear practical and real to the layperson.
Theologists all learn these Obfuscations of Nonsense in their studies as Absolute Truth.
So Theologists go out into the world believing absolute nonsense to be Truth.
Thus they get annoyed at skepticism and criticism of their theology and start producing their own Apologetics to make their own indoctrinated belief in Extreme Nonsense appear Rational and Real.
Thus you end up with extremely Fallacious Apologetics and poor Indoctrinated Apologists making absolute fools of themselves to Rational, Skeptical Thinkers.
Such as the William Lane Craigs and Pat Robertsons of this world.
Theology Classes are churning our Extremely Indoctrinated and Extremely Deluded, people of Extremely Low Rational Intellect.
Because they are being schooled entirely on Obfuscated and Exaggerated Lies which originated from the Lies of Saul and the Gospels, being embellished and obfuscated by every Apologist since in order to make their beliefs appear Rational and Truthful.
There is little hope for such poor deluded graduates to ever become truly Rational, Intelligent individuals.
We just have to watch them debate and read their comments in the media to realize how bent their minds have become!
My Opponent can start off by refuting my Argument.
I wish whoever takes ut the challenge best of luck there!
I speak off the Holy Spirit, it exists, you Sir, I am guessing you have never felt the power of the Holy Ghost. It grows with your faith, your pious decisions, Jesus could form miracles off of the fathers permission. After Jesus left God put the Holy Ghost to be with us. If you have enough true faith you can live a better life. Truly helping others, forgiving and moving on. Sex before marriage WOW like that is so much to ask for paradise? I am we all sin, I am the chief of sinners. I don't deserve paradise? Jesus always had permission on Jesus and always saw that he was good. Jesus was the offering, one person must go life with sinning, doing something that you think could be wrong. Lying, looking at a girl sexually, swore? God needed to see one man do it for forgiveness. Jesus is so perfectly timely placed in the world and in time of history. It would be hard to image it anywhere and at a different time period?
I beg you to think on it again I pray and worry for you. I am guessing you are a good moral man and that you mean no harm but you must believe. The answer is literally here. Look at the prophecies of the Old Testament, that cannot be corrupt it is a Jewish history record. The coincidences and the links with generations "The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:
2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king.
David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife[a] of Uriah. 7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa.[b] 8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon,[c] and Amon begot Josiah. 11 Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations."
Look Jesus died for you if you hate him or not and God will always love but may be forced to damn you for non- believing. IT IS NOT OUR RIGHT TO JUDGE. If gays are sinners then let God deal with em. Idc if your gay just don't think I am going to have sex with. If you are different race then so what! We don't choose.
BTW Cannabis is gods gift to earth so use it.
see u soon
Thanks Con for taking up this challenge!
Though much of your argument is off topic I will endeavor to rebut those that are on topic.
Point 1: " "The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:"
Technically, if you claim Jesus is the Son of David, Son of Abraham, then this destroys the Virgin Birth myth, since in Judaism, only the Husband or Father can carry lineage.
Since with a Virgin Birth there is no Father except God, Jesus cannot possibly be in the Lineage of King David
Besides, to be the Son of David, he must be considered for the thrown of Israel, which Jesus Christ certainly was not. The tale that Jesus was the Messiah predicted by the Old Testament is absolutely False, Jesus never really fulfilled the Messianic Prophesies, he certainly was not in line for the throne of Israel, Jesus was most likely the son of the Roman soldier that seduced/raped Mary and caused he to claim a Virgin Birth, as did many women that the Romans raped, since to be carrying a Roman baby in that region was a stoning offense at the time, so many women claimed virgin births to avoid being stoned to death.
Problem for Jesus was that very likely Mary told Jesus he was a child of God and he believed her, thus his delusional quest. I think in the end, Mary regretted telling Jesus that lie, as he may have lived longer and a more normal life, had she told him the truth. She disappeared off the scene after the death of Jesus, probably in shame of her lie that caused her son's death.
Only the Son of David and heir to the throne of Israel could be the Messiah: That was never Jesus Christ.
The Gospels are confusing in these points as well, they contradict each other concerning the lineage and birth of Jesus.
Point 2: Con goes through a Lineage ending in: " Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ." Problem there is Joseph was not in line for the Throne of Israel either, the Messianic prophesies only cover a direct lineage by Blood, it was known that Joseph was not the blood father of Jesus, thus Jesus would not be covered by the Prophesies. Again, Jesus was not the Messiah that the Old Testament sought.
Con stated: "I pray and worry for you. I am guessing you are a good moral man and that you mean no harm but you must believe. "
Thanks for your concern Con, but such statement of concern can be construed as a Coercion.
Coercion to faith is fallacious.
My studies into Theology (lies and reading the Bible) is the reason I no longer believe.
If the Bible had been more rational and realistic with less nonsense and contradictions, maybe I'd still believe.
Though, thanks for your argument,
Back to you Con.
look I know about these problems with the Bible and how for hundreds of years the church (mainly catholic) ruined, changed and cut large sums of it out for population control reasons. The issue for me is the speeches and parables he gave to fellow man the miracles the gospels say he performed. When he died the temple was somewhat ruined to rubble. You don't have to trust the bible you just must Jesus. The Mary telling Jesus he is the son of god is false. At seven Jesus was left in the temple and when found said "You know that I must do my Father's bidding?"
If she did tell him he got the message out. Out of any false Messiahs at that time. The story I believe in acts shows one of the high priests say after evaluating the caught disciples. "We have done this before brothers? If he(Jesus) is not holy then nothing will come of this silly followers. But if he(Jesus) is holy than there will be no way to stop them and you are going against God."
Looks like he was holy? The 11 after Judas then 12 again sure got the message out. All but John died horrible deaths by natives or just plain non-believers. Would you die for something that is false in nature? I am not that's for sure. But I AM willing to die for Christ. Baptism in blood.
The man who raised Jesus was related to King David, Joseph. He was the only son of god and raised by a man that had kinsman like genealogy. Look you're not going to change and either am I but if you stop and look at this planet the way it works. Water cycle, gravity, nature, oxygen cycle, human instincts. The way everyone things works and its some random bull-crap? Goodness exists and so does Evilness why? I think you may know.
But yeah great conversation/debate so far back to you PRO.
Thanks Con for your somewhat brief argument:
Though there are likely many reasons for destruction of Temples, war, invasion of Islam who destroyed Judaic temples, earthquakes, etc... which all had nothing to do with Jesus, so the ruins cannot be demonstrated or verified as having anything to do with Jesus.
Many believe that such prophecies were actually written after the events to wrongly give their hero credit, with the Bible this is entirely possible, since it appears that the temple was already in ruin by the time the Gospels were written, thus they may have been cited as an event that was foretold by Jesus because it was already occurring and such predictions falsely give their story credence.
Such is one of the deceptions of religion or people making false claims to make others believe in their own faith.
The My God is better than your God because my God's predictions came true, which is a falsification fallacy. Falsifying the causes for past events to assert God is common in Judaism and Christianity.
It is still being practiced by Creationists who are always trying to Assert God as the cause for the Big Expansion (Bang) of the Universe.
On the Birthright of Jesus Christ: Early Judaism only considered the male blood descendant as the heir to the thrown, which means that that adopted children and step children (Jesus) are not considered as direct heirs to the throne, in Joseph's case, it would be the first born son with Joseph's blood, or James who would be the heir to the throne of David. Jesus would be bypassed as it was well known and even published in the Bible that he was already within Mary at the time of her meeting Joseph, thus could not be of Joseph's Blood. Since there are no records showing Joseph, and then James were heirs to the throne of David/Israel, this destroys the Biblical claims of such a lineage.
The writers of the Gospels were again trying the Falsification of Past Events and Lineage Fallacy to convince others that Jesus was greater and more divine than he truly was.
Here is an Islamic study of the Failed Prophesies in the Bible:
Same goes for the myths concerning the many Miracles and the Resurrection of Jesus.
Again these were interpolated on top of any truth about Jesus by Saul and later the Gospel writers to convince doubters/skeptics/non-believers that Jesus was Divine and greater than their pagan Gods.
I agree with Con in that Catholicism is not really Christian, since it is mostly based on the teachings of Saul and incorporates non Christian, Pagan practices such as Idol veneration, Mary veneration and stupid pagan trinkets like Rosary beads.
Though I was studying Theology in two sects, firstly conventional Christendom Theology (Catholic) and later as a member of a Pentecostal Evangelical Christian movement. Both had an entirely different Jesus Christ and the Pentecostal holy spirit with magical gifts like 'Speaking in Tongues' is just as ridiculous as the Pagan practices of the Catholic church.
I proved beyond doubt that the "Speaking in Tongues" holy spirit gift is nothing more than a form of illusion from euphoric chanting and hysteria. The actual noises made by people when speaking in tongues are nothing more than Glossolalia, or meaningless noises.
They are not a language of any form, nor do they communicate anything to any God, they are completely nonsensical, but appear convincing to extremely naive followers.
Though we find it extremely amusing when attending Evangelical functions and people are standing around in public making their silly Glossolalia noises and indicating to the rest of intelligent humanity that they are totally deluded.
I can do glossolalia (tongue speak) at any time I chose and I can sing in it, but I do that only for my own amusement and often I can attend Pentecostal churches and fit right in. Which I also find amusing.
Modern Evangelical Christianity is using many forms of Theological deception to coerce non believers into belief.
They concentrate on a couple of Fallacies for trying to win over new converts:
1: Increasing Evil or Worsening Times Fallacy:
This is extremely Fallacious as in fact, according to worldwide reviews, Humans are becoming more civilized and there are less events such as massacres, sexual abuse and depravity on a world scale, mostly due to Media Coverage and such bodies as the United Nations reviewing nations activities.
Two hundred years ago, massacres and sexual assaults were very common, they occurred on a daily basis at least somewhere in the world, without any knowledge of them by the rest of the world and in many cases, societies covered them up so as some were not considered serious, like the church covering up child abuse and leaders covering up massacres they orchestrated. So many thousands of people were massacred and sexually abused without any knowledge of these offences by the the rest of the world.
These times, 200 people get shot down in a jet an there is instant knowledge of it around the world with worldwide condemnation of such events.
No, to say the world is becoming more Evil or people are becoming more depraved is absolutely False.
The main changes are that there is actually less depravity in the world now than ever in the history of the human existence, thanks to social and public media making the world more accountable to such depravity.
Though it has not improved in countries where media is restricted by the Government or banned from access, as these nations know of the power of the media and restrict it deliberately so they can perform atrocities against humans without being criticized by the United Nations.
These Evangelical bodies that promote the Myth of Increasing Immorality, are deliberately misleading Victims to gain access to their Bank Accounts.
Here is an account of this from a Christian Theological website:
Excerpt: "At times it can seem that we evangelical Christians have a vested interest in the world getting worse. There is a general catastrophizing tendency in western society: despite on almost every measure life becoming more secure and prosperous over the past 200 years, we tend to imagine that the world is about to come crashing down and that we are all doomed. For evangelicals this tendency is heightened because it can almost seem part of our job description to say, “The world is going to hell in a hand-basket: Come to Jesus!”"
End-of-Times (The Rapture) Fallacy:
Actually the entire End-of-Times prophesies and the Rapture prophesies are pure Bunkum.
None of them are real.
The Bible writers had no idea about what was going to happen the very next day after they wrote their lines than what was going to happen in a few thousand years time.
People are just too stupid to realize this.
Every single prediction is drawn on False Analogy Fallacies and poor association fallacies combined, to produce absolutely insane nonsense.
The tribes of Israel associations with modern day societies is extremely fallacious and such tribes no longer exist in reality, but doomsday advocates are pushing such nonsense for their own gains in power and money from selling their nonsense.
Truth being, there is no such thing as the Rapture, since Jesus was never truly Divine and the Resurrection and the Ascension of Jesus never really happened, the ascension of believers to Heaven will not happen either.
Christians should not put fals hope in the Rapture as it is Unbiblical to begin with, and essentially absolute Nonsense to end with.
"There are multitudes in the Christian community who have their hope and trust in God wrapped up in a teaching called the Rapture. When trying to discuss this issue with them, most become very angry as if we were trying to strip away their hope in God. But God is revealing Himself. Those who will listen will come to the knowledge of the truth of this fallacy." From a Christian Source: http://www.newfoundationspubl.org...
Thanks again Con, back to you:
4 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
"25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
My life has been horrible. Yahweh is the only one that has gotten me to be more uplifting. I love my life only because of what He has done for me and you. We have food, we have water. We have clothes, and we have computers. We have life man we get to exist in a world where you really don't know the past, can not tell the future. Can't remember before you were born and have not experience death. We are useless weak things. No control of time or money or relationships. We are given cards on race,class,looks at random. We are the fastest sperm out of millions to reach the egg. Human or animal pregnancy is it amazing. The things that go round and round. We can type out words that make sounds that creates a language. Life is amazing, we have our selves inside, no one truly knows you but you and...God.
"24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
I am blessed, my rewards are not here, I must be poor and have a horrible drug addict mom and going to 10 different schools in 11 years. My mom causing me to be homeless TWICE. I get scrutiny for his names sake. Jesus the lord is my Shepard, what can mere mortals do?
I with every good deed build my treasures in heaven. There is a story about Jesus showing Peter hell and saw the torture the rape, the nail hooks and fire pits. Beast with chain's and scorching floors. Peter cried out and said
"Lord, why haste but so awful things upon so many, some must be good of will?"
So Jesus told Peter not to tell no one ever ** WE KNOW SO YEAH HE BROKE IT** but if one just one person in heaven asks for the release of the people in hell God would do it. So God has a heart.
I would, no one deserves that stuff. Hell is from the horrible spell of Satan's stupid mistake.
If you had that chance to somehow save all the Christians from ETERNAL damnation would you? Look upon yourself.
Also I am on of the most liberal and cannabis consumer ever bro. Pot is in the bible if you know the bible well you should know.
May Peace be with you always and all who you meet.
In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Codedlogic 2 years ago
|Who won the debate:||-|
Reasons for voting decision: Wow, based on Pros opening arguments and the BoP of proving a lie I thought this was going to be an easy win for Con. Pro argued that since the Jesus account is inconsistent it is therefore a lie. All Con had to do was point out that not all inconsistent stories are lies. But instead Con offered to "Pray" for Pro and then offered Jesus lineage as proof of Jesus existence. Pro thoroughly dismantled that argument in round two . . . As Con never addressed Pros opening argument and failed to make any supporting arguments beyond Jesus lineage the debate goes to Pro.
Vote Placed by Domr 2 years ago
|Who won the debate:||-|
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments
Vote Placed by Preston 2 years ago
|Who won the debate:||-|
Reasons for voting decision: Pro refuted every point HOWEVER, pro holds the BOP and didn't fulfill it, con destroyed every point as well, leaving pro without a case. Sources would goto pro, conduct tie, yea, I feel arguments settled it. any questions? ask me!
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