The Instigator
NothingSpecial99
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Saberen
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Christian morality (Pro) vs. Atheistic or Secular morality (Con)

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
NothingSpecial99
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/3/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 449 times Debate No: 80473
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

NothingSpecial99

Pro

Full resolution: Christian morality is superior to Atheistic or Secular morality.

1st Round: Acceptance + definitions
2nd Round: Arguments
3-4 Round: Rebuttals

Christian morality: Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior derived from the Bible.

1st Round is for acceptance and to define the morality you are advocating for.

Looking forward to a good debate.
Saberen

Con

I would thank to thank my opponent for making this argument.

Please note that I am a deist. I reject the existence of a God that intervenes in our universe. This comes with rejection of all religions. So i will be arguing for secular morality.

Morality - conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.

I advocate for the "Do as you wish as long as it doesn't infringe on another's ability to do the same" morality. Although I personally reject any kind or form of objective morality this is my subjective moral code.

I would like to know what you, as a Christian, think what is moral and what is not.
Debate Round No. 1
NothingSpecial99

Pro

First off, I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate.

The reason why Christian morality is superior to secular morality is because of the unchanging nature of Christian morality. Christian morality is derived from the Christian God and according to the Bible is unchanging in Malachi 3:6, “I the Lord do not change. So you descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed”. So Christians have an ultimate standard to appeal to when measuring morality. Like how we measure quantities using the metric system it is important that the standard does not change or become relative with the object which is the standard for which things are measured. This is why the standards for the metric system are made of pure platinum concealed in an air-tight container filled with argon gas, so that have an ultimate standard to compare our measuring tools to.

In a Christian setting, there is no dispute on whether or not murder is wrong, or whether lying, stealing, or committing adultery is wrong as it is explicitly clear in the word of God that such actions are wrong. However, the only basis for these actions being wrong is that the personal opinion of the majority and society. What I find ironic with Con’s statement that he is against any objective morality and advocates for “do as you wish as long as it doesn't infringe on another's ability to do the same” morality but imposes it as a policy that should be absolute.

Another reason why Christian morality is superior is that we are accountable for our actions when God judges us. If Atheism is true or if deism is true where there is no God that plays an active role by judging what is right or what is wrong, then why should one obey the laws set by society if after they die they face the same fate as a person who spent all his/her life obeying laws, donating to charity, etc., and as that of a serial killer or Stalin unconscious and unaware of anything that happened when they lived. I’m not claiming that atheists themselves have no sense of morality; it is that they have no objective purpose for being moral. The consequences of such can be seen in history. Over the last hundred years, millions upon millions died at the hands of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and other atheists easily outweigh anything Christians have done since Christianity was a thing. These men were acting consistent with their atheistic beliefs that there is no God that will hold them accountable to their actions and that there is no ultimate authority on morality.

Conclusion: Christian morality is superior to secular morality
Source: The Holy Bible (NIV)
Saberen

Con

[paragraph 1] I actually disagree with you saying christian morality is unchanging. The bible says not to lay with another man yet many christians and even churches as a whole are starting to accept homosexuality.

[Paragraph 2] I find it funny that God is fine with killing millions in a flood and sending people to kill other people yet as soon as someone kills another person without God's approval that's just too far. You forgot the part where i said "this is my subjective moral code". I'm not going to force my subjective morality on anyone. I never claimed it was objective it is just my opinion. If majority of society agrees with it then that still doesn't make it objective. It just makes it an axiom.

[paragraph 3] You think just because atheists or non-theists in general don't believe in any objective truth that they shouldn't follow any moral code? You don't need God to be a good person. Atheists know this is the only life they have and they aren't going to mess it up by not following rules. They agree to the rules so they live by them. It's existentialism. Atheists make their own reasons to follow rules. Are you forgetting the millions who've died in the crusades, spanish inquisition and the 30 years war? And you can't arbitrarily blame Mao, Stalin and Pol pot's mass murderings on their lack of belief in a God. That is asinine. You treat Atheism as a religion. As a belief. When It's a lack of belief. Free of religious dogma.
Debate Round No. 2
NothingSpecial99

Pro

Let me first point out that my opponent has violated the debate structure I set up using Round 2 which I explicitly stated was for arguments to refute what I’ve said in my argument. But I will address your claims.




  1. I do agree in the regard that the Bible explicitly forbids the act of homosexuality and I believe that homosexuality is wrong. I dislike the fact that many churches and professing Christians compromise the authority of the Bible for what society thinks is right. I don’t want this to turn into a debate on homosexuality so I won’t go into any more detail on the subject.

  2. If the entire human population in the world except for one family is wicked as the Bible states sinning against the same God that gave them life then God has the right to take it away with the flood. And if the pagan nations around the Israelites are committing horrendous crimes such as for example in Leviticus 18:21,24 “And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech.... Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you.” Meaning that if they are literally burning their own children as sacrifices to false gods then God can rightfully allow the Israelites to drive out or destroy these pagan nations. Note that God doesn’t play favorites because when the Israelites themselves turn away from God, he kicks them from their own land. Also note that such instances are rare in the Old Testament. Again you saying that the Christian God is immoral based on your personal opinion. If your thoughts on morality are the result of nothing more than accidental collisions of atoms obeying the laws of chemistry then why should I or anyone else take your word for it?

  3. I never said that atheists couldn’t be moral. I just stated that atheists have no objective reason to be “good”. And like I said before, what is the point of being honest, donating to charity, or obeying laws if after death you end up in the same realm as a serial killer or a rapist unconscious and unaware of anything you have done while you lived. You claim that the amount of murders during the crusades, inquisition, etc. are proof that Christian morality is immoral but you are judging Christian morality under the assumption that murder is wrong as if it is absolute. In addition, it is important to note that a vast majority of wars and conflicts have nothing to do with Christianity. Wars having nothing to do with religion can fill the pages of a book whereas “Christian” wars can be counted with one hand. The number of deaths from regimes that ban religion such as North Korea and Cambodia under Pol Pot trump in the last 50 years easily trumps what Christians have done in the last 1000 years. Any atrocities committed by Christians are inconsistent with the Bible such as do not murder. If morality is subjective as you state it is and that there is no ultimate authority, then there is a slippery slope. Take for example the genocide the Nazis committed during WWII against the Jews. They were complying with the laws of Germany so in order to convict them of war crimes; there must be a standard for morality higher than the laws of any government. With Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot I just stated that they were acting consistently with their belief in no God that there is no objective morality to adhere to then anything is permissible.

Saberen

Con

Saberen forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
NothingSpecial99

Pro

It seems my opponent has forfeited. I will give him next round to make a counter argument.
Saberen

Con

Saberen forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by NothingSpecial99 1 year ago
NothingSpecial99
@V5RED That argument is based on flawed logic. You claim to be able to read the minds of every Christian who does something "good". Imagine going to a ceremony where a soldier receives a medal of honor and someone with that logic accuses the soldier of acting only because he didn't want to be punished with desertion or the reason he did a heroic act was for the medal. The main problem with atheistic morality is that there is no objective reason to help the "well-being of others" when basically the only thing atheists have to base morality are their own personal opinions.
Posted by JohannTenma 1 year ago
JohannTenma
Exactly. No religion owns morality, morality is extrinsic from religion. *People* have morality.
Posted by V5RED 1 year ago
V5RED
Christian morality doesn't exist, there is only secular morality. When Christians say morality, they mean obedience. If all you are doing is obeying someone because otherwise he will throw you in a fire, you are not acting out of morality, rather you are acting out of fear.

When atheists say morality, they are referring to what we should or should not do on account of how it impacts the well-being of others.
Posted by JohannTenma 1 year ago
JohannTenma
"Christian morality is superior to secular morality is because of the unchanging nature of Christian morality."

And that, my friends, is how you lose an argument in seconds.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
NothingSpecial99SaberenTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff many times, so conduct to Pro.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
NothingSpecial99SaberenTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture