The Instigator
TRUE-ISRAELITE
Pro (for)
Winning
2 Points
The Contender
CCLemon
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Christianity is in fact, a Pagan religion!

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after 1 vote the winner is...
TRUE-ISRAELITE
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/27/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 918 times Debate No: 67561
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

TRUE-ISRAELITE

Pro

There will be 3 rounds. Scripture may be utilized.

Christianity is a famous religion. I used to be a so called "Christian" myself. I used to attend church just about every "SUNday." Much of what the pastor taught seemed to make some sense to me, until I came into the truth. You see "Christianity" only focuses on the New Covenant, and they leave the Old Covenant out. They rarely ever use the Old Covenant. In order to understand the Bible, one must read from beginning (Bereishis) to the end (Rev.). Christianity spreads much lies about what they "think" the bible says; they basically have their own man made doctrine. Since I've come into the truth, I've realized that the Bible is not referring to everyone, only the ISRAELITES, and I'm not talking about the JEWS in Israel today, those are fake JEWS (Europeans). The real JEWS today that I'm talking about and that are also spoken of in the Bible are the so called "African Americans, Mexicans, West Indians, Colombians to Uruguayans, North Americans Indians, Haitians, Dominicans, Guatemalans to Panamanians, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Seminole Indians, Argentineans and Chileans." These are the REAL ISRAELITES today, according to Bible prophecy and other history that is not acknowledged today and has been hidden. Christianity will not teach this, they will simply teach that if you believe and get baptized, you will go to heaven, this is FALSE! Christians claim to be all about love and peace, yet they are the most hypocritical individuals, and they contradict what they teach. Here is a list of reasons why Christianity is a wicked religion.

1. They do not keep the laws/commandments. (John 14:15 - If ye love me, keepe my commandments.) (1 John 5:3 - For this is the love of The ELOHIM, that we keepe HIS commandments.) Note: Laws and Commandments have the same meaning.

2. Baptism is not done as scripture says (one must confess his/her sins to the ELOHIM and ask for salvation through HIS only begotten SON, The Messiah Yahushuah). (Acts: 22:16 - And now, why tariest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away they sinnes, calling on the name of the ELOHIM.) Note: According to scritpure, there is only ONE baptisim - Ephesians 4:5 - One Messiah, one Faith, one Baptisme.)

3. They celebrate pagan holidays (Easter, valentines, Christmas, thanksgiving, etc.) and refuse to celebrate Yahuah’s HOLYDAYS (Passover, The Feast of Dedication, etc.) (Amos 5:21 – I hate, I despise your feast dayes, and I will not smell in your solemne assemblies.)

4. They call The Messiah’s name “Jesus” which is a pagan Greek SUN god. The Messiah’s real name is Yahushuah, which is the oldest Hebrew language.

5. They call the ELOHIM “God/Lord” (There are many gods and lords, do they know which one they are talking/praying to.)

6. They worship on SUNday’s (the 1st day), instead of keeping the SHABBAT/SABBATH (7th day) Holy. Their excuse for worshiping the SUN gods on SUNday is based on Yahushuah’s teaching in Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1, and other verses. What “Christians” fail to realize is that, (1) these verses are directed to the Israelites and (2) The Messiah said to preach on the first day, etc. There is a difference between preaching and worshiping. Preaching is teaching and worshiping is the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.

7. They worship the “white Jesus” (Yahushuah was a dark skinned man.)

8. Christians claim that the laws/commandments are no longer in effect because they are part of the old covenant, yet they are repeated in the new covenant.

9. They refer to both the Old and New covenants, as “Testaments.” Covenants are promises that the ELOHIM promised to HIS people (Israel) and “Testaments” are testimonies.

10. They preach that the bible is for everyone, when in fact, scripture says otherwise.

11. They do not want to accept the fact that the Bible has many metaphors.

12. They use the worst, the most corrupted Bible versions, which lead to their beliefs, and they are so stiffed necked to acknowledge that their Bibles have been corrupted.

“Christianity” is a religion that is made up of other different religions and beliefs. Constantine (Roman Emperor) invented Christianity and he instilled all these different beliefs from different religions, as well as holidays that the Romans celebrate, and with these, he created “Christianity.” He basically instructed “Christians” to break every law/commandment in the Bible, which they currently still do today. He changed a lot of names, including the Elohim’s and The Messiah’s, and he took out specific words to make his own doctrine. Today, we TRUE ISRAELITES, preach and worship The Creator on the SHABBAT, and as instructed by The Messiah Yahushuah, we preach (teach) every single day and we celebrate The Creators Holydays just as Yahushuah did. Additionally, “Christians” fail to acknowledge that The Messiah, quoted the old covenant, in the new covenant.

In brief, “Christians” are unlearned and their pastors are the false prophets that the bible speaks of. “Christians” completely ignore and do not teach that everything in the bible is specifically for the ISRAELITES, including all the laws/commandments. They teach that all believers will be saved, but the Bible states the ISRAELITES will get the KINGDOM and rule the earth again (Amos 9:14-15 - 14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. 15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the ELOHIM thy ELOHIM; Isaiah 14:2 - And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the ELOHIM for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.) All other nations that are not of Israel, in exception of the Moabites and Ammonites (Asians)(Deuteronomie 23:3 - An Ammonite, or Moabite shall not entrer into the Congregation of the ELOHIM, even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the Congregation of the ELOHIM for ever.), may inherit the kingdom, only if they profess that the BLACKS, etc. are the original JEWS and original rulers of the earth, and also, if they covert to being an ISRAELITE and following our DOCTRINE. If the other nations refuse any of these guidelines, they will return to being our slaves again, and so will their children, their children’s children’s, et cetera.


CCLemon

Con

I accept the challenge!

First off, I would like to argue that Christianity is not a Pagan religion.
Definition of Pagan- A person who worships many gods or who worships nature and the Earth.
Us Christians don't worship many gods, we worship the one and only God, the Creator of the universe. Yahweh.

- "You see "Christianity" only focuses on the New Covenant, and they leave the Old Covenant out."
That is simply not true. We Christians focus on the Old Testament just as much as we focus on the New Testament. Just because Christians focus on the New Testament, doesn't mean we completely ignore the Old Testament. We also acknowledge the Old Testament and agree that everything in it is true and Holy.

- "Christianity spreads much lies about what they "think" the bible says; they basically have their own man made doctrine."
This statement is false because we Christians do not possess a "man-made" doctrine. We follow God's Holy Word and follow His Ten Commandments that he presented to Moses. All our preaching is influenced by the Holy Bible and what Jesus, or as you refer to as Yahushuah, taught to the Israelites.

- "[Christians] will simply teach that if you believe and get baptized, you will go to heaven, this is FALSE!"
In my opinion, I believe that if you truly believe that there is only one true God and that he sent his only begotten son, Jesus, to this earth and died on the cross for us, then there is a great chance that you will be accepted into Heaven. You don't necessarily HAVE to be baptized, at least that's what I believe in. You can't NOT believe in God and NOT believe that Jesus is God's Son and still go to Heaven. Is that what you're saying? That ANYONE, believer or not, can enter into Heaven?

- "Christians claim to be all about love and peace, yet they are the most hypocritical individuals, and they contradict what they teach."
What evidence do you have that makes Christians such hypocrites? Sure, we all made mistakes, even Christians have. I have made plenty of mistakes that didn't show any love nor peace. But you know what? Jesus died on the cross for us and washed away our sins and all you have to do is simply ask God for forgiveness and He will forgive you. (Psalm 130:4 -- But with you there is forgiveness, so that we can, with reverence, serve you.) Oh, and looky here, this verse is from the Old Testament!

- "They celebrate pagan holidays (Easter, valentines, Christmas, thanksgiving, etc.) and refuse to celebrate Yahuah's HOLYDAYS (Passover, The Feast of Dedication, etc.)"
Okay, first of all, how is Easter, Valentines Day, Thanksgiving, and CHRISTMAS a pagan holiday?! There's no evidence in that. Easter is when Christians celebrate Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Thanksgiving is when we give thanks to the Lord Almighty. Christmas is, well, celebrating Jesus' birth. And Valentines... well, I don't how that's a "pagan" holiday, honestly. And it's not like we refuse or ignore Passover or The Feast of Dedication. Us Christians recognize those Holy Days and respect it. It's just that, maybe some Christians don't normally celebrate them and that's okay.

- "They call The Messiah's name "Jesus" which is a pagan Greek SUN god."
Yes, some websites say so and it's pretty interesting. [http://hiddenbible.com...] But take a look at all the different versions of Matthew 1:21.
NIV: "She will give birth to a Son, and you are to give him the name JESUS, because He will save His people from sin."
KJV: "And she shall bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call him JESUS..."
CEV: "Then after her baby is born, name Him JESUS."
NCV: "She will give birth to a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS..."
And so on...
In fact, one version says that Jesus is "the Greek form of the Hebrew Joshua, which means Savior" So it looks like this whole "Sun god" thing is not all that true and that the angel Gabriel declared that Mary should name her son 'Jesus' because it clearly means "Savior" and not "Zeus".

- "They call the ELOHIM "God/Lord" (There are many gods and lords, do they know which one they are talking/praying to.)
Christianity states that there is only one God and one God only. There are no "many gods and lords", proving that Christianity is NOT a pagan religion. Like I said before, we firmly believe that there is one true Lord. We worship and pray to God, the one true God. And let me just point out the second commandment of The Ten Commandments: "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments." (From Exodus Chapter 20) You see, Christians still recognize the Commandments, which proves your first reason wrong.

- "They worship on SUNday's (the 1st day), instead of keeping the SHABBAT/SABBATH (7th day) Holy."
Just so you know, there are tons of calendars that say that Sunday is the 7th day. I guess we both have a different taste when it comes to calendars.

-"They refer to both the Old and New covenants, as "Testaments." Covenants are promises that the ELOHIM promised to HIS people (Israel) and "Testaments" are testimonies."
Seriously? Covenants and Testaments are basically the same thing.
Definition of Testament: "A COVENANT, especially one between God and man."

In conclusion, my point is that Christianity is NOT a pagan or "wicked" religion for the following reasons:
1. Because we believe there is only one true God and there is absolutely no other gods or lords.
2. We believe that all the scriptures in the Bible is true, both the New AND the Old Testaments.
3. We follow what God says and we don't make up our own laws.

But I will have to admit. Nobody's perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. But that doesn't mean we're wicked. All we have to do is ask God for forgiveness and He will forgive our sins.

Sources:
https://www.biblegateway.com...
http://www.yourdictionary.com...
http://www.the-ten-commandments.org...
Debate Round No. 1
TRUE-ISRAELITE

Pro

(Pagan- A person who worships many gods or who worships nature and the Earth.) That is exactly what a Christian is. They celebrate all pagan holidays that are made to worship other gods. Satan does not have to tell you to worship him, he is very cleaver, and you worship him without even knowing. That is why Yahuah says not to learn the ways of the heathens (Jeremiah 10:2) and HE also states not to celebrate “CHRISTMAS” which just about all Christians do. (Jeremiah 10:3-4 – For the customes of the people are vaine: for one cutteth a tree out of the forrest (the worke of the hands of the workeman) with the axe. V4 They decke it with silver and with golde, they fasten it with the nayles and with hammers that it move not.) Remember, the Bible has many metaphors.


(We Christians focus on the Old Testament just as much as we focus on the New Testament. Just because Christians focus on the New Testament, doesn't mean we completely ignore the Old Testament. We also acknowledge the Old Testament and agree that everything in it is true and Holy.)-If Christians really focused on the Old Covenant, why don’t they tell people the truth about what is currently taking place and who the JEWS really are according to scripture? Why when people attempt to teach them about the Old Covenant, they become so hostel and defensive?

(This statement is false because we Christians do not possess a "man-made" doctrine. We follow God's Holy Word and follow His Ten Commandments that he presented to Moses.) -What laws/commandments do you keep exactly? Celebrating pagan holidays, worshiping on SUNdays, celebrating Easter (They apparently know exactly when The Messiah rose from the dead!), they have crosses in their churches, which to the ELOHIM is idolatry because they always refer to the cross when they want to speak about there “Jesus,” as if HE still stayed on the cross when HE rose again; they do not keep the SHABBAT or SHABBATH holy, instead they keep their SUNday holy. This is not keeping the commandments. If you break one law, you break all the commandments (James 2:10 – For whosoever shall keepe the whole Law, & yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.)

(In my opinion, I believe that if you truly believe that there is only one true God and that he sent his only begotten son, Jesus, to this earth and died on the cross for us, then there is a great chance that you will be accepted into Heaven. You don't necessarily HAVE to be baptized, at least that's what I believe in. You can't NOT believe in God and NOT believe that Jesus is God's Son and still go to Heaven. Is that what you're saying? That ANYONE, believer or not, can enter into Heaven?) -My opponent states, “In my opinion, I believe that if you truly believe that there is only one true God and that he sent his only begotten son, Jesus, to this earth and died on the cross for us, then there is a great chance that you will be accepted into Heaven.” – The ELOHIM does not care for your opinions, HE cares that you follow HIS laws and follow Yahushuah. I do not recall reading in the bible where The Messiah says, “You want to know my opinion!” Yahushuah quoted everything in the new covenant from the old covenant, besides, If you so called “Christians” really read the old covenant, you’d know that not everyone will get the Kingdom. The Messiah was sent only for the lost sheep (ISRAELITES) of the House of ISRAEL (Matthew 15:24 – But he answered, as said, I am not sent, but unto the lost sheepe of the House of Israel.) My opponent then states, “. You don't necessarily HAVE to be baptized, “at least that's what I believe in”.” Again, The Most High does not care what you think should happen, that is why “Christians” have their own doctrine because all they want to talk about is, “I believe if…” It is not about what you believe, it is about keeping The ELOHIM’s commandments and following them.

(You can't NOT believe in God and NOT believe that Jesus is God's Son and still go to Heaven. Is that what you're saying? That ANYONE, believer or not, can enter into Heaven?) – That is not at all what I am saying, that is the reason why I stated, “one must confess his/her sins to the ELOHIM and ask for salvation through HIS only begotten SON, The Messiah Yahushuah.”


(What evidence do you have that makes Christians such hypocrites?) – Christians are very judgemental; they dislike gay marriage being legal, yet they support it; they have gay Christians and nowhere in the Bible does it say being gay will get you into heaven, in fact it will get you to hell because the ELOHIM did not create man for man nor did HE create woman for woman, HE created woman for man; they hate on each other and are constantly spreading rumors, and the list goes on.

(Jesus died on the cross for us and washed away our sins and all you have to do is simply ask God for forgiveness and He will forgive you. (Psalm 130:4 - But with you there is forgiveness, so that we can, with reverence, serve you.) Oh, and looky here, this verse is from the Old Testament!) -Yes my opponent is correct, The Messiah was a sacrifice, for the Israelites that is. And don’t you think you should actually repent and stop committing the same sins over and over and breaking the laws over and over? My opponent then quoted Psalms 130:4, yet what he failed to acknowledge, if he actually read the entire chapter of Psalms 130, he would notice that that chapter is directed to the ISRAELITES! (Psalms 130:7-8 – Let Israel hope in the ELOHIM, for with the ELOHIM there is mercy: and with him is plenteous redemption. V8 And hee shall redeeme Israel, from all his inquities.)

(Okay, first of all, how is Easter, Valentines Day, Thanksgiving, and CHRISTMAS a pagan holiday?!.) – This is the reason why “Christianity” is a pagan religion. “Christians” do not look up any history of anything I stated, they simply believe what man tells them, and they believe it. 1 How do you “Christians” know exactly when The Messiah resurrected? Did you guys get in a time machine to go back in time? What does an Easter bunny and eggs have to do with “Jesus”?
The name 'Easter' comes from the Anglo-Saxon goddess Eostre, whose feast was celebrated in the spring and who was associated with spring and fertility. …Rabbits were common in pre-Christian fertility lore, where they symbolized the abundance of new life associated with spring. The ancient German goddess Ostara, for whom the German spring festival Ostern was named, was always accompanied by a hare, who may have been the precursor of the modern Easter Bunny. In any case, the association of the rabbit with Easter is probably the vestige of an ancient spring fertility rite. …Some religious purists believe that the Easter Bunny has done to Easter what the cult of Santa Claus has done to Christmas. Others prefer to regard the rabbit emerging from his underground burrow as akin to Christ rising from his tomb on Easter morning. But no one has yet come up with a good explanation for why a rabbit would lay eggs! 2 Valentine’s day – Did The Messiah ever celebrate Valentine’s day? No, the reason is because Valentine’s day is a sexual holiday. What happens after most people celebrate Valentines day? They go straight to the bedroom to have sex! What kind of gifts do people get on Valentines day; chocolates, sex toys, lingerie, etc. Therefore, Valentines day is also a pagan sexual holiday. 3 Thanksgiving is not at all about giving thanks to The Most High. You cannot take a clean thing out of an unclean thing (Job 14:4). Thanksgiving is really about giving thanks to ESAU (the whites) for slaughtering the blacks, native Americans (the ISRAELITES), raping our women and children, then chopping them into pieces and making bags and pockets out of the women’s breasts and vaginas! You really must do your homework before you celebrate these wicked helldays! 4 Christmas, is not about celebrating the birth of The Messiah, you are very ignorant if you think that. How do you “Christians” know the exact day The Messiah was born? Christmas is celebrating the winter solstice, it is also when Nimrod was born. So the birth of Nimrod is actually being celebrated and the worshiping of the Winter Solstice. The Christmas tree is an object that was used in witchcraft, and it was used for many other wicked rituals. Scripture alone says not to celebrate Christmas (Jeremiah 10:3-4) It is not okay to not celebrate the HOLYDAY’s that is why ELOHIM instructed us to celebrate HIS HOLYDAYS, even Yahushuah celebrated the HOLYDAY’s!

(Yes, some websites say so and it's pretty interesting. [
http://hiddenbible.com......] But take a look at all the different versions of Matthew 1:21.) –This is the reason why I said all bibles have been corrupted. Constantine took much out of bibles. There is no “J” in the Hebrew alphabet and The Messiah’s name was Hebrew since HE was a Hebrew. Neither is there a “J” in the Greek alphabet.

(we firmly believe that there is one true Lord. We worship and pray to God, the one true God.) –Isn’t your “jesus” a Hebrew man, wouldn’t HIS name be HEBREW and not Greek or Latin? ((From Exodus Chapter 20) You see, Christians still recognize the Commandments, which proves your first reason wrong.)-And that is why you continue referring to him as Zeus! A pagan SUNgod!

(Just so you know, there are tons of calendars that say that Sunday is the 7th day. I guess we both have a different taste when it comes to calendars.)-Just so you know, you are following the Gregorian calendar, invented by a catholic! By the way, if you read the Hebrew weeks, you will see that the Sabbath falls on a Saturday!

(Seriously? Covenants and Testaments are basically the same thing.)- Covenant: an agreement between two people. Testament: is evidence or proof of something, a testimony. A testament is not showing a promise, rather showing proof.

It is clear my opponent doesn't know the bible, who invented "Christianity" and what the real meaning is behind the holidays Christians celebrate.
CCLemon

Con

-"HE also states not to celebrate "CHRISTMAS" which just about all Christians do ... for one cutteth a tree out of the forrest (the worke of the hands of the workeman) with the axe. V4 They decke it with silver and with golde, they fasten it with the nayles and with hammers that it move not.)"
Clearly, you are not reading this right. You see, in the verse, the people cut down a tree in the forest with the axe. Then the decorate it with silver and gold. Now you say this verse is talking about the Christmas tree. Well, it's not. Apparently, this verse is actually talking about people cutting down trees to get wood. They chisel the wood to carve them into IDOLS! And what do they do? They decorate the idols with silver and gold and worship the idol. And that's not what us Christians do. We don't worship idols. You might think, "Oh, then how do you explain the tree then?" Well, there was this CHRISTIAN missionary named St. Boniface who was a missionary to the Germans. And most of the Germans were worshiping Thor (a pagan god) and were sacrificing at their sacred oak tree. They believed that if they cut the oak tree down, Thor would go angry and strike them down with lightening. St. Boniface wanted to help them realize that there was no Thor and that God, or as you refer to as ELOHIM, was the answer. Then St. Boniface cut down the oak tree and proved that the Germans' tales were false. St. Boniface then pointed out the fig tree (the tree we use as the Christmas tree). Back then, there was a monk who spread the Word of God and he talked about the upside down fig tree, using the tree's triangular shape to describe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit that make up the Holy Trinity. So really, the Christmas tree isn't all that evil.

-"If Christians really focused on the Old Covenant, why don't they tell people the truth about what is currently taking place and who the JEWS really are according to scripture? Why when people attempt to teach them about the Old Covenant, they become so hostel and defensive?"
1. First of all, what do you mean by "currently taking place"? I don't understand what you mean and if maybe you clarify it a bit more, I might be able to answer it. Thanks.
2. Second of all, in Romans 2: 28 it says - "A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical." And I would like to know what my opponent says about Jews, since my opponent never really says what he/she thinks.
3. Finally, I just want to say that as a Christian, like I said before, listen to the Old Testament and believe everything it says. I read it all the time! And what do you mean about Christians getting "hostel" or "defensive" when someone shares to them about the Old Testament? Have you ever witnessed or experience this before? I don't think my opponent clearly didn't have any evidence to support this statement.

- "Celebrating Easter (They apparently know exactly when The Messiah rose from the dead!)"
Honestly, we Christians don't know the EXACT date that The Messiah rose from the dead. And let me just say that Easter is a movable feast.
Definition of movable feast -- A religious holiday that changes in date from year to year.
Clearly, my opponent has no idea how the date of Easter is created. We use the Lunar calendar for this calculation. Why? Because the paschal full moon in the Lunar calender was the date of the Passover in the Jewish calender and the Last Supper (Holy Thursday) occurred on the Passover, when Jesus had his last Passover supper with his disciples. And we know that Easter has to be on a Sunday and according to the Bible: (Mark 9:31 -- "because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise.") He will rise after three days, making the Holy Thursday the day he died.

- "[The cross] to the ELOHIM is idolatry because they always refer to the cross when they want to speak about there 'Jesus'"
The cross is not an idol, it is a symbol. When we look at it, it reminds us as Christians that Jesus Christ died for our sins and that He left His perfect world to come into our sinful and cruel world. We don't worship the cross. The cross is a reminder.

- "The ELOHIM does not care for you opinions" "If you so called 'Christians' really read the old covenant, you'd know that not everyone will get the Kingdom" "'Christians' have their own doctrine because all they want to talk about is, 'I believe if...' It is not about what you believe, it is about keeping The ELOHIM's commandments and following them."
1. You know, some Christians have some different opinions. We have studied the Bible (and yes, we study the Old Testament, too. Just so you know...) and through God's Word, we have tried our very best to translate what He is trying to say to us imperfect human beings. But God is so complex and wonderful, we might not narrow is Law down perfectly to understand it.
2. Yes, us Christians know that not everyone will get the Kingdom, like I said in the first round.
3. We keep God's Law the best we can. You know, not all religious people are perfect, okay? We believe in all our hearts that Yahweh is our Lord, and we put all our faith and trust in him. But yes, sometimes people make mistakes, alright? You have, I have, we all have. And that's why God delivered Jesus Christ into this world to save us from our sins. :)

- "Christians are very judgmental; they dislike gay marriage being legal, yet they support it"
Some Christians think that and I personally think gay marriage is okay. And the fact that being gay will get you to hell, well, where in the Bible will it say that? My opponent says that the Bible does not say being gay will get you into Heaven. But did it ever say it will get you into hell? And it's not the gay person's fault that they're gay. They didn't choose to be gay. So yah, if being born and automatically liking the same gender without having a choice is a sin to people, well it isn't for me and another thousands more people.
And if being gay is such a sin, then why did God create gay people? In the beginning of time, Adam and Eve had a choice with God and with sin. See, sin was a choice. But being born gay is not a choice, therefore it should NOT be a sin! And you should not go to hell for it.

My opponent's so called "pagan holidays":
1. Easter
The eggs in Easter represent 'new life', like Jesus' Resurrection brought everybody new life in Christ. And the stuff about Easter Bunny and this goddess accompanied by a hare, do you really believe this? Is this just a mere coincident? AND I would like to ask my opponent one simple question: Where have you heard about the Easter Bunny laying eggs??? I don't think that's really what the Easter tradition means.
2. Valentines' day
I don't think a lot of Christians have sex during Valentines'. Why would we do that? We just spend some time with our 'Valentine'. And besides, Valentines' Day isn't a Christian holiday! So why is it on the list?!
3. Thanksgiving
I would like to give my opponent the opportunity in telling me where he has read or heard such things about this thankful holiday? If it's really what he's saying, we Christians celebrate in a different and more, *ahem* ,clean way.
4. Christmas
First of all, I just want to say that we will NEVER know what exact date that Jesus Christ was born (unless time machines were invented any time soon). But the story is interesting. December 25th was the day that local people worshiped their gods. But then they started wanting to be Christians. So the leaders of the Catholic Church put the Christian themes into their holiday and introduced the Christmas Story. It's true that Christians don't know the exact date of The Messiah's birth. What's not true is how the Christmas Tree was used in witchcraft. I would like to see my opponent's evidence on that statement.

The name 'Jesus' is OUR translation of The Messiah's name. There are many translations of His name. This is our translation. And it's fine if you name Him His original name.

- "Just so you know, you are following the Gregorian calendar, invented by a catholic! by the way, if you read the Hebrew weeks, you will see that the Sabbath falls on a Saturday!"
Just so you know, I know that. Again we have a different taste in calendars.

Definition:
Testament- A statement of fact or worth; A COVENANT

It is clear that I know the Bible and that everything in it is between God and man, that Jesus' followers FOUNDED Christianity, and that the "real" meanings behind the holidays Christian celebrate are false.

SOUCES:
http://www.eldrbarry.net...
http://catholicism.about.com...
Debate Round No. 2
TRUE-ISRAELITE

Pro


(Clearly, you are not reading this right. You see, in the verse, the people cut down a tree in the forest with the axe. Then the decorate it with silver and gold. Now you say this verse is talking about the Christmas tree. Well, it's not. Apparently, this verse is actually talking about people cutting down trees to get wood. They chisel the wood to carve them into IDOLS! And what do they do? They decorate the idols with silver and gold and worship the idol. And that's not what us Christians do. We don't worship idols.)-Clearly my opponent does not know where christmas trees come from; clearly he doesn’t know that Christmas trees are decorated, and it is clear he does not know how Christmas trees are cut down (axe or saw) from where the location where they’re grown!

(1. First of all, what do you mean by "currently taking place"?)-And this is the reason why Christians are unlearned. They pay no attention to what is currently evolving around them. They do not know that what is happening is Bible prophecy. That is what I am talking about when I say “currently taking place!” Christians see this world as rainbows and flowers, and it is now. They really think that all believers will be saved, but again, the Bible says otherwise.

(2. Second of all, in Romans 2: 28 it says - "A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical." And I would like to know what my opponent says about Jews, since my opponent never really says what he/she thinks.)-Clearly my opponent did not read Ch2 of Romans. If he would stop interpreting verses to his conformity, he would understand them. My opponent needs to go back and read Ch2 of Romans to clearly understand who Romans 2:28 is intended for and what it means.


(3. Finally, I just want to say that as a Christian, like I said before, listen to the Old Testament and believe everything it says. I read it all the time! And what do you mean about Christians getting "hostel" or "defensive" when someone shares to them about the Old Testament? Have you ever witnessed or experience this before? I don't think my opponent clearly didn't have any evidence to support this statement.)-Just because you read the Old Covenant does not mean that you understand it. I can read the bible over and over and over and over, will that mean that I understand it, NO! If you read it as a novel, you will never understand it. Even though Christians claim to know the entire bible, truth is they do not, otherwise they would not be teaching what they are teaching, and they would not be celebrating what they celebrate. They do not read the Bible and acknowledge what has happened throughout life and what is currently taking place in the world right now. They do not match the past with the Bible, nor do they do it with the present.- I actually have had this experience many times with Christians becoming hostile and defensive. One example I can give you is, right now; when I explained it to people I used to go to church with, as well as other Christians that would preach John 3:16. You Christians only preach scripture that talks about love, and forget the rest.

("Celebrating Easter (They apparently know exactly when The Messiah rose from the dead!)"
Honestly, we Christians don't know the EXACT date that The Messiah rose from the dead. And let me just say that Easter is a movable feast.) - So you just confessed that you Christians don’t know when the EXACT date The Messiah rose, so then why do you all preach that Easter is the day The Messiah rose? Don’t you think that is called LIEING when you Christians preach this, and teach it to the children in you SUNday school?


(The cross is not an idol, it is a symbol. When we look at it, it reminds us as Christians that Jesus Christ died for our sins and that He left His perfect world to come into our sinful and cruel world. We don't worship the cross. The cross is a reminder.)-Don’t you think The Creator’s Word (The BIBLE) should remind you Christians that your “Jesus Christ” died for your sins on the cross? Why do you need a symbol to remind you all of HIS sacrifice?

(1. You know, some Christians have some different opinions. We have studied the Bible (and yes, we study the Old Testament, too. Just so you know...) and through God's Word, we have tried our very best to translate what He is trying to say to us imperfect human beings. But God is so complex and wonderful, we might not narrow is Law down perfectly to understand it.)-Why do you need to translate HIS word, when it is given to you in YOUR LANGUAGE? This is the reason why I say you Christians are a pagan religion. Stop translating scripture into what you want it to say, and actually preach what it says, not your opinions or your beliefs!

(2. Yes, us Christians know that not everyone will get the Kingdom, like I said in the first round.)-So then why do you Christians continue preaching that if you believe in the Son of The Most High, you will be saved and your name will be written in the book of Lamb? You have yet to answer that question!

(3. We keep God's Law the best we can. You know, not all religious people are perfect, okay? We believe in all our hearts that Yahweh is our Lord, and we put all our faith and trust in him. But yes, sometimes people make mistakes, alright? You have, I have, we all have. -First off, why is it so hard to keep Yahuah’s laws/commandments, I do not see why that is so hard, that is if you truly love HIM! If you feel temptation, you pray and cry out to HIM like no other. Yes, we are not perfect and we do commit sin that is not of the laws/comandments.

(And that's why God delivered Jesus Christ into this world to save us from our sins.)-So then what does Matthew 15:24 mean? If you want to use John 3:16, I suggest you read the beginning of Ch3 in John to know who that verse is being directed to!

(Some Christians think that and I personally think gay marriage is okay.)-This goes to show that Christians are indeed part of the new world order and are pagans. There are only two places in the afterlife that we go to, Heaven or Hell (the lake of fire), that is unless if you are one of those Christians that do not believe in hell! (Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.) Jude 1:7; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Leviticus 20:13; 1 Timothy 1:10; Mark 10:6-9; and much more scripture proves this. Can you provide evidence for your claim, stating the Bible does not say if gay’s do not repent they will go to hell? If the bible says people that do these type of things will not inherit the Kingdom, then where exactly do they go? Do they come back to life and continue living?

(And if being gay is such a sin, then why did God create gay people?)-Where in the Bible does it say The Creator formed man for man and woman for woman? It doesn’t, HE created Adam, and then HE created Eve from Adam's rib. HE created Eve for Adam and Adam for Eve!

(See, sin was a choice. But being born gay is not a choice, therefore it should NOT be a sin! And you should not go to hell for it.)-Sin is a choice, but being born gay is not a choice, but being gay is a sin and you said sin is a choice. No one is born gay, gays are so weak minded that they let the filthy evil spirits guide them, and that is why it is their choice. They do not seek The Most High for guidance, instead they let the devils guide them. Also, I am not “GOD” neither are you, so it is not about what you want to happen in life or what you want my ALAHIM’s Word to say, it is about what HIS word says and we must follow HIS instructions for us!

(The eggs in Easter represent 'new life', like Jesus' Resurrection brought everybody new life in Christ.)-So again what do easter bunnies and easter eggs have to do with the resurrection of your “Jesus”? I did not know “Jesus” could lay egss! This is exactly why you Christians are pagan, you make your own traditions and ignore ALAHIM’s traditions.

(Where have you heard about the Easter Bunny laying eggs??? )-That is exactly my point! What do Easter eggs have to do with a bunny? Let alone, what does an Easter bunny have to do with Yahushuah?

(And besides, Valentines' Day isn't a Christian holiday! So why is it on the list?!)-Why do you all celebrate it if it is not a “Christian” holiday?

(If it's really what he's saying, we Christians celebrate in a different and more, *ahem* ,clean way.)-Again you cannot take a clean thing out of an unclean thing! Job 14:4

http://www.countercurrents.org...

http://www.dailykos.com...#

https://www.youtube.com...


(First of all, I just want to say that we will NEVER know what exact date that Jesus Christ was born (unless time machines were invented any time soon). -So then why did you say Christmas is the celebration of “Jesus” birth? Now you’re saying, that no one will know the exact day of “Jesus” birth, my question to my opponent is, why do you still celebrate Christmas if it is not when Yahushua was born?

(What's not true is how the Christmas Tree was used in witchcraft. I would like to see my opponent's evidence on that statement.)- http://www.earthwitchery.com...

(The name 'Jesus' is OUR translation of The Messiah's name.)-That I why you worship Zeus (a SUN god) on SUNday because it is your translation of The Messiah’s name.

(You are following the Gregorian calendar, invented by a catholic! Just so you know, I know that. Again we have a different taste in calendars.)-That is why “Christians” are wicked, they know what the Bible says to do and not to do, yet they do what they want!

(Definition:Testament- A statement of fact or worth; A COVENANT)-Again, how is a fact or worth, the same thing as a promise???

It is clear my opponent has no knowledge of the Bible. He could not provide one piece of evidence of scripture or other source proving his claim. The vote is left you all!

CCLemon

Con

As this debate is coming to an end, I just want to say it's been a privilege debating with my opponent, this being my very first debate.

-"Clearly my opponent does not know where christmas trees come from; clearly he doesn't know that Christmas trees are decorated, and it is clear he does not know how Christmas trees are cut down (axe or saw) from where the location where they're grown!"
Okay, first of all, I know all of that. I'm just saying that the verse that you used (Jeremiah 10:3-4) was not talking about Christmas trees, it was talking about idols! How people cut down a tree and use the wood from the tree to chisel it into an idol. And they decorate it with all this gold and silver.

-"They pay no attention to what is currently evolving around them"
Actually, we Christians know what is happening around the world. We are aware that some bad stuff is happening around the world.

- "Christians see this world as rainbows and flowers, and it is now. They really think that all believers will be saved, but again, the Bible says otherwise."
Okay, first of all, I just want to point out that Christians don't see the world as rainbows and flowers. And I don't really understand what opponent is trying to say in the first sentence. So he says that Christians thinks that the world is all rainbows and flowers, and it IS? So my opponent thinks that the world IS rainbows and flowers? Second of all, we agree that not ALL believers will be saved. But if they believe and they follow God's Laws and Commandments, they have "a great chance" of being saved.

- "So you just confessed that you Christians don't know when the EXACT date The Messiah rose, so then why do you all preach that Easter is the day The Messiah rose?"
I just explained all that in my last argument. Clearly, my opponent didn't have the time to read all that. Like I said, Jesus was crucified during the Last Supper, on the Passover. Three days after the Passover, Jesus Christ rose from the dead. And we know that Easter Sunday is on, well, a Sunday. So on the Thursday before Easter Sunday, we recognize the day that we remember Him being crucified. See, we don't know the EXACT date The Messiah rose, but we have chosen a date to remember and celebrate His Resurrection.

- "Don't you think The Creator's Word (The BIBLE) should remind you Christians that your "Jesus Christ" died for your sins on the cross? Why do you need a symbol to remind you all of HIS sacrifice?"
Back then when the cross became a symbol in Christianity, I guess symbols were pretty important. See, Christianity isn't the only religion with a symbol. Muslims, they have a crescent and a star and Jews, they have David's Star. All that, the cross, the crescent, David's Star, these are all kind of similar to a flag. It symbolizes our religion. When you see the cross, you would most likely automatically think, "Christianity". So that's why we have the cross. So the cross isn't just a symbol for Christians, but it's also symbol that represents our religion.

- "So then why do you Christians continue preaching that if you believe in the Son of The Most High, you will be saved and your name will be written in the book of Lamb?"
Well, yah, you still have to believe in the Son of The Most High, but of course you can't just say you do and go on doing sinful things. We do preach that if you believe in Jesus Christ, you will be saved. But you must also follow his Laws and do good. this is my answer to your answer.

- "Why is it so hard to keep Yahuah's laws/commandments, I do not see why that is so hard, that is if you truly love HIM!"
Why is it so hard? Yes, there is temptation. And yes, we Christians do cry out to the Lord and ask Him to help us through our darkest of times. It's just that with all this temptation and pressure in the imperfect world, we get a bit tempted into doing sinful things, but we have to ignore the temptation and continue following God's Laws.

-"So then what does Matthew 15:24 mean?"(Matthew 15:24 --He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.")In Matthew Chapter 15, it talks about a woman coming to Jesus and asking if He could heal her daughter who was possessed by a demon. His answer is that because He was first saving the lost sheep of Israel. And when he resurrected, He told his disciples in Acts 1:8, "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you;and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria,and to the ends of the earth." Therefore, Jesus Christ was not just for the lost sheep of Israel, but also for the lost sheep of the whole world.
My opponent also wanted me to read Chapter 3 of the Book of John, and I did. Jesus was talking to a rabbi named Nicodemus who was asking Him about new life.
- "No one is born gay, gays are so weak minded that they let the filthy evil spirits guide them, and that is why it is their choice."
I have had a lot of gay friends who tell me stories of how they try so hard to be normal and how they try to like the opposite gender, but they can't. It's not like they CHOSE to like the same gender. And it's not because they're weak-minded! If you think gay people are so weak-minded then explain that to Elton John or Ellen DeGeneres.

- "So again what do easter bunnies and easter eggs have to do with the resurrection of your "Jesus"?"
Okay, so what? The Easter bunny and Easter eggs were just a couple of traditions that people created. But it's not like we worship the Easter bunny or anything. We still worship the Lord Almighty and recognize the time that He was crucified and resurrected from the dead to save us from our sins. And if ALAHIM had traditions for Easter, what would they? I know my opponent won't really have the opportunity to tell me, but I just want to point out that nowhere in the Bible did it say that God had any traditions for Easter, but it is clear that my opponent thinks so.

- "Why do you all celebrate it if it is not a "Christian" holiday?"Not ALL Christians celebrate it. Some do, and we just do simple stuff like give our loved ones or friends some chocolates or sweet letters. I guess that's why some Christians celebrate Valentine's Day, to appreciate each other and show love to each other.
(Mark 12:31 --The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these.)

Overall, I just want to say that Christianity is not a pagan religion. Let me remind you that the definition of Pagan is a person who worships many gods or the nature of the earth. That's not what Christians do. Christians worship the God Almighty and His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
And I also just want to say you can't necessarily control another person's religion. If they have different customs or traditions in religion, then that's fine.

Win or lose, it's been great debating this topic and it's been a great first debate.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by TRUE-ISRAELITE 2 years ago
TRUE-ISRAELITE
When did The Most High say HE gave us religion? He gave us laws/commandments to follow, HE did not give us religion!
Posted by mentalist 2 years ago
mentalist
Religion is intended to provide harmony...a state that does not seem to be appreciated here...
In the present day, most religions have been politicized and altered or degraded from their original intents and purposes.
Posted by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
o0jeannie0o
@Asburnu
Posted by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
o0jeannie0o
pagan: "People Against Goodness and Normality"?... love to see all the Darling, Unique, Members, Believing, And, Scrutinizing, Spirituality, Ethically &, Socially are growing, from a wiccan <| :D
Posted by TRUE-ISRAELITE 2 years ago
TRUE-ISRAELITE
And you must also be color blind if you don't know what color the dust of the ground is!
Posted by TRUE-ISRAELITE 2 years ago
TRUE-ISRAELITE
Ok well, you obviously have never read the bible.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
You're both making some Very Serious Mistakes.
In the first place, true Christianity is obviously based on my teachings,
which are, of course, for everybody,
such as "Love one another" , "Love thy neighbor as thyself" , etc.
My name, of course, wasn't Jesus.
I had a Hebrew name, pronounced Yeshua.
I wasn't Black-skinned- I was White.
Secondly, what you might call Catholicism isn't primarily based on my teachings, at all.
It was the so-called "Holy Roman Catholic Church" , in various
Synods, Councils, etc. , that decided basic church doctrine,
what Books would be included & which not included, in the Bible, etc.
Some major parts of Catholicism were taken from Pagan sources.
My teachings weren't, though some ideas in Paganism might be found in my teachings.
As I understand it (refer to the booklets, etc. , put out by the Worldwide Church of God) ,
The 2 Lost Tribes of Israel came, primarily to Great Britain & the U.S.
None of us back then ever said the things that we're quoted as saying.
None of us ever spoke in English.
English didn't even EXIST back then.
Elohim is Plural- them, not he.
I doubt that a real God could care less what day he's worshipped, taught about, learned about, etc.
I certainly don't.
The so-called "God" of the Bible wasn't named Jehovah, or Yahweh.
He claimed that his name was Hebrew, & was pronounced Yahweh.
The fact that people are creative & have free will proves that we aren't creations.
Nobody who can think straight would believe that a God would only have one child.
I wasn't God's son.
The 3rd nail proves that I couldn't have been on that cross.
Somebody else was.
The Romans used 3 nails in their Crucifixions- 1 through each palm or wrist,
& 1 through the feet or ankles.
Any body which wasn't dropped- which wasn't likely- would've had big holes
in its feet or ankles, & probably wouldn't have been able to walk.
According to the Bible, I was walking around perfectly normally a few days after the crucifixion
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I wish I could've taken this,
Posted by Asburnu 2 years ago
Asburnu
You mean "pagan" is not an acronym for "People Against Goodness and Normality"? Hope you all had a Super Saturnalia, a Merry Mithras and a Smashing Sol Ivicuts!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
o0jeannie0o
TRUE-ISRAELITECCLemonTied
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Total points awarded:20 
Reasons for voting decision: Well that was tense! con isn't knowledgeable of the real Christian holidays outlined in the bible. Yes Christmas trees are in the bible under the exact statement you outlined. In the original Hebrew the word that is in place of chisel (in most recent bibles) is axe. The closest translation for that is KJV 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They changed it so people wouldent realize that yes a christmas tree is an idol, and the star on top is a pentagram. That is probably the lamest connection to x-mas though, I would use the birth story as the best. During the winter solstice the sun dies and in 3 days it is reborn in Virgo (virgin) next to the three wise men. These are literal stars. There is many more. Its a wiccan or pagan practice not witchcraft, common misconception.