The Instigator
imabench
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Sauh
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Christianity is more of a cult then Scientology (semi-serious troll debate)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Sauh
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/7/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,142 times Debate No: 34578
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

imabench

Pro

Im becoming a fan of making troll debates around religious topics :)

First round acceptance only, 3 rounds, 4000 characters
Sauh

Con

Let's get it on.
Debate Round No. 1
imabench

Pro

Cult as defined by google:
1) A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
2) A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
(https://www.google.com...)

Things that Christians do that are very cult like....

1) Drink the blood and consume the body of their savior

2) Gather once a week early in the morning to sing songs and chants from ancient times

3) Gather in secrecy to elect a new pope and signaling that they have chosen one by emitting white smoke from a chimney (Catholics)

4) Waged holy war against other religions that rival their influence (Middle Ages with the crusades)

5) Provide exorcisms on those believed to be possessed by demons by sprinkling holy water on them and by reciting passages from the Bible

6) Hitting the dead pope with a silver hammer three times to see if hes dead (Thats actually true: http://www.omg-facts.com...)

7) Refusing contemporary medicine and trying to treat diseases through prayer (Only some condone this)

8) One branch of Christianity (Protestantism) was created because one English King wanted to have a divorce that the Catholic Church wouldnt allow.

9) Christians refuse to accept that Jesus was brown and always picture him as being very white

10) Some Christians believe that modern songs and tv shows contain satanic images meant to brainwash children into becoming worshippers of satan.

11) Self flagellation, the practice of beating the crap out of yourself to absolve you of your sins, became a christian ritual around the middle ages

12) The Bible contains a sh*tload of references to killing people for things that arent that big of a deal, such as killing teens for being disrespectful, kill those who work on the day of the Sabbath, kill girls who arent virgins when they marry
Sauh

Con

Christian practices are not cult-like, but logical.

1. In life-or-death situations, cannibalism can be acceptable. In Biblical times every day was a matter of life-or- death; therefore there were many cannibals walking around. If a restaurant has ever stopped serving your favorite dish; you know the feeling of craving a little taste again. Now we can’t have cannibals walking around nowadays; so Jesus takes one for the team.

2. There is nothing wrong with socializing with people of similar interest early in the morning, leaving the rest of the day for other activities. What’s wrong with a good sing-along? As to the age of these songs and chants; I can only say, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

3. I will use a sports analogy here: The different religions can be seen as different football teams. A football team gathers in a circle for privacy to select a play; like the cardinals gather in secrecy to elect a Pope. A signal is necessary so everybody knows a decision has been made. In football, they all clap; in Catholicism, they use white smoke.

4. Companies today wage advertising wars against companies that have similar products. Everybody wants the biggest market-share they can get. This is simple economics.

5. It would just be rude to leave someone possessed by demons.

6. That’s actually practical. Popes are very old men, who sleep deeply, it is important to know if they are actually dead. If you don’t wake up from three strikes from a hammer you are dead. Yes, they use a silver hammer; would you use a wooden hammer? It’s the freaking’ Pope, show some respect, heathen.

7. Do you really want to discuss the wisdom in taking any pill you’re given, just because a man in a white coat told you to? And who hasn’t gotten a venereal disease and uttered an “Oh God”?

8. This is just exploiting an ill-phrased rule, and I don’t think anyone on this site can fault him for that.

9. There are no photographs of Jesus; therefore, no proof he wasn’t white. Before you cite where he lived; let me point out one thing: He’s Jesus. He could have been any color he wanted. If the King of Pop could change his skin color; I’m sure it would be little issue for the King of Kings.

10. If I was forced to watch the drivel that passes for children’s entertainment I’d consider Satanism, just for some intellectual stimulation.

11. This is a misunderstanding. Whipping themselves on the back was not meant to be a self-punishment; they simple hadn’t invented the back-scratcher yet.

12. Suppose you give up your freedom to feed, clothe, and house a child for thirteen years. As soon as he is old enough to start contributing, he starts giving you crap and doesn’t do as you ask.

I get one day a week off, because nobody can work that day. Then Kenny starts going to work on the Sabbath. If this continues, I’ll have to work on the Sabbath. Sorry; Kenny has got to go.

Girls got married at twelve or thirteen back then. If a girl couldn’t stay a virgin until she was thirteen, we would all be thinking the same thing: Slut much?

Pro supplied a two part definition of cult:

1) A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

As logical as all these examples are; a few people may still consider them cult-like.
However; the burden of proof was on Pro to establish “Christianity is more of a cult than Scientology”.

The second part of the definition is:

2) A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

I won’t try to convince you Christian beliefs or practices aren’t strange or sinister. I will argue that Christianity is an overwhelmingly larger group than Scientology. Since Scientology is a relatively smaller group than Christianity; it is more of a cult that Scientology.

Therefore you should agree with me that Christianity is not more of a cult than Scientology.
Debate Round No. 2
imabench

Pro

"1. Now we can"t have cannibals walking around nowadays; so Jesus takes one for the team."

Fair point, but why does it have to be our lord and savior, why can't it be a hitchhiker or a hobo or someone who nobody cares about if they go missing? It's very cult like to sacrifice someone important to cannibals instead of someone less important, like any ginger

"2. What"s wrong with a good sing-along? "

Nothing, it's just that ritualistic songs and chants are a staple of cults

"3. A football team gathers in a circle for privacy to select a play; like the cardinals gather in secrecy to elect a Pope. "

But why do it in secrecy, when they elect a pope literally the entire world finds out who they chose within minutes. Plus why not have a public election? Lets see whose leading the race so that our media can talk about something important for once!

"4. Companies today wage advertising wars against companies that have similar products.... This is simple economics."

I don't think that killing millions of people in holy war is 'simple economics'.... Cults wish for their enemies to be vanquished, and Christianity has tried several times to try to eliminate their competition which is very cult-like behavior

"5. It would just be rude to leave someone possessed by demons."

But we don't know if demons exist, they just might be in their period or mad that the heat lost.

"6. Yes, they use a silver hammer; would you use a wooden hammer?"

Yes, because that's what JESUS would have used back in his carpenter days!

"7. Do you really want to discuss the wisdom in taking any pill you"re given, just because a man in a white coat told you to? "

Is rather trust a guy in a white coat then an old priest who wants me to sit in his lap otherwise god will kill my parents....

"8. This is just exploiting an ill-phrased rule, and I don"t think anyone on this site can fault him for that."

Creating an entire religion centered around yourself for selfish reasons is the stone that cults are built around though!

"9. He"s Jesus. He could have been any color he wanted."

Exactly, and who wouldn't want to be black??

"11. This is a misunderstanding. Whipping themselves on the back was not meant to be a self-punishment; they simple hadn"t invented the back-scratcher yet."

That makes sense, but then why do people still do it after a better back scratcher has already been invented then? Because they WANT to be punished which is very cult like behavior

12. Suppose you give up your freedom to feed, clothe, and house a child for thirteen years. As soon as he is old enough to start contributing, he starts giving you crap and doesn"t do as you ask.

That's a reason to ground him but not KILL HIM. Such drastic punishments for minor things is pretty cultish behavior

"I get one day a week off, because nobody can work that day. Then Kenny starts going to work on the Sabbath. If this continues, I"ll have to work on the Sabbath. Sorry; Kenny has got to go. "

Why don't you say your grandma does or fake the flu like any normal person???

"the burden of proof was on Pro to establish "Christianity is more of a cult than Scientology".

I think it's covered

"I will argue that Christianity is an overwhelmingly larger group than Scientology. Since Scientology is a relatively smaller group than Christianity; it is more of a cult that Scientology. Therefore you should agree with me that Christianity is not more of a cult than Scientology."

But size doesn't impact whether something is a cult or not. Justin Bieber fans vastly outnumber atheists but atheism isn't a cult whereas I'm pretty sure being a Justin Bieber fan is

Look, Christianity displays numerous cult like symptoms including rituals, gatherings at strange times, chanting of songs, consuming the blood and body of their savior, and straight up pedophilia as well.... These are all signs that Christianity is a cult more then the very reasonable Scientology..
Sauh

Con

A brief explanation of Scientology:
"The Church of Scientology is a cult created by L Ron Hubbard (Elron) in 1952 as an outgrowth of his earlier self-help system called Dianetics. The Church of Scientology holds that at the higher levels of initiation (OT levels) mystical teachings are imparted that may be harmful to unprepared readers. These teachings are kept secret from members who have not reached these levels. In the OT levels, Hubbard explains how to reverse the effects of past-life trauma patterns that supposedly extend millions of years into the past. Among these advanced teachings is the story of Xenu (sometimes Xemu), introduced as an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy." According to this story, 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and detonated hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes. The thetans then clustered together, stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to do this today. Scientologists at advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating body thetans and neutralizing their ill effects."
http://www.zimbio.com...

"The American science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard is considered the sole source of Dianetics and Scientology. His work, recorded in 500,000 pages of writings, 6,500 reels of tape and 42 films, is carefully protected and guarded for posterity."

The reason that all of Hubbard's work on Scientology is "carefully protected and guarded" is because his editing notes are all over it. These notes include 'rewrite, no one will buy this', 'create more aliens for backstory - jar jar binks - possible line; "Monsters out there, leaking in here. Weesa all sinking and no power. Whena yousa thinking we are in trouble?"', and 'if this works it'll show that publisher that said I'd already written my crazies sh!t'.

"He (Hubbard) likened the human mind to a perfect computer that needed to be "cleared" of erroneous data enforced upon it from engrams or painful memories."

I think that is referred to as having been cleaned, or washed. So to 'clear' the minds of its followers Scientologists must wash them; their brains that is.

"One central practice of Scientology is an activity known as auditing (listening) which seeks to elevate an adherent to a State of Clear, one of freedom from the influences of the reactive mind."

To be a Scientologist one must listen to a scientologist 'auditor' until they remove the influences of a reactive mind. What is the mind"s action again; oh, yeah, to think. What is supposed to be the minds reaction to hearing things; oh yeah, to think about them and evaluate their truth.

So you can see Scientology brainwashes and programs its followers to not question what they are told. Now you could argue that Christianity also tries to do this, to an extent; but Christianity doesn"t do so nearly as scientifically or effectively.

"The Religious Technology Center has prosecuted individual breakaway groups that have practiced Scientology outside the official Church without authorization."

Since you have to pay for the teachings of Scientology; the church will sue people found to be disseminating that information. Compare with the free expression of Christian teachings on street corners, public parks, and anywhere you can find a homeless man that goes by "Preacher".

"The Church of Scientology requires that all members sign a legal waiver which covers their relationship with the Church of Scientology before engaging in Scientology services."

In scientology you have to sign a legal document before they will let you be a member. In Christianity all you have to do is get your hair wet.

All this clearly shows Scientology is in fact more cultish than Christianity.
Thank you.

(If I get sued I plan on subpoenaing my opponent in this debate)

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
Sh*t I forgot to bold everything
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by HeartOfGod 3 years ago
HeartOfGod
imabenchSauhTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con showed that scientology is way more cult-like than christianity, even if christianity is a cult (which it isn't).
Vote Placed by TN05 3 years ago
TN05
imabenchSauhTied
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct goes to Pro because Con introduced new arguments in the third round, which I believe is not civil. S&G goes to nobody (no point for you!). Arguments goes to Con, because his arguments established Scientology as more of a cult than Christianity while all Pro tried to do was prove Christianity is a cult, not more of a cult than Scientology. Sources go to Pro because of the pope-hammer thing. Overall, a very funny debate from both ends. I feel Con has a slight edge in arguments, but Pro displayed better conduct and used better sources.