Christianity is not the enemy of the LGBT community
Debate Rounds (5)
All other rounds- anything goes
(1 John 4:8)
"To know God is to know love,for God is love."
So, what is love?
(1 Corinthians 13:1-8)
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails.
This chapter of Corinthians is one of a few definitional sources for the word "agape" when used to refer to divine love.
"love": the highest form of love, charity; the love of God for man and of man for God." Not to be confused with "phileo" - brotherly love - agape embraces a universal, unconditional love that transcends, that serves regardless of circumstances."
A journalist of Time Magazine has described John 3:17 as "one of the most famous and well known Bible verses. It has been called the 'Gospel in a nutshell' because it is considered a summary of the central doctrines of Christianity." The verb translated "loved" in this verse is "egapesen", past tense of "agapeo".
"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
(A short vid clip about love in accordance with the Bible.)-
There are gay churches and churches with focuses on welcoming the LGBT community.
The Pharisee priests, who were very religious and judgemental attacked Christ, and He rebuttled them many times. Here are examples of those rebuttles.
"You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of."
“Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."
The Pharisee priests brought a woman caught in "sexual sin" to Jesus yelling a screaming and calling her an adulterer, sinner, etc. They demanded an answer from Jesus on how to deal with her. Here is His response.
"So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
He who is without sin"(Video reference)
"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
"So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy."
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Jesus tells a story-
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’"
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Ellen Degenerous(of the LGBT community)-
"Our flaws are what makes us human."
"For BY GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."
The Pharisee priests challenged Christ and He gave a direct, blunt rebuttle:
Which of the two did what his father wanted?" "The first," they answered. Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."
And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, ‘Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.
But I think it is a flaw to say that Christianity is the enemy of the LGBT community.
It depends on the level of extremism. The "extremely" religious people would definitely be considered "enemies" or people who oppose the LGBT community. We have seen the extreme people fighting against LGBT rights. Against gay people getting married in the church, or transgender people getting to change their gender.
But there are also the more "relaxed" group of individuals in Christianity. They might not support the lifestyle of a gay person, but they will not stand in the way of someone living their life as they desire. I think we are dealing with a group, that has multiple opinions on the matter.
If we take a look at what the religion says, and not how any opinions included. I think the quote is something like this
"thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind it is abomination". That seems pretty anti-gay to me.
But we need to see how the religious people react to this, and practice it.
We have in the past seen a big group opposing against gay-marriage.
And the transgendered. What about them? In Genesis 1:26, the Bible says, "And God created man in His image, in His likeness; male and female He created them . . . . and it was very good." In addition, 1 Corinthians 14:33 says that "God is not a God of confusion but of peace," so deliberately creating someone with self-contradiction appears to go against the very nature of God.
I think that opposes the whole deal about transgendered people, and labels them "mentally ill" or whatever they want to call it. But this very passage, does not call it normal, or in anyway accepted by God. But I know a few christian people, who accepts transgender people.
So I think you need to clarify, are we talking about the religion itself, or the community?
Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12)
-The Kızlar Agası, head of the black eunuchs of the Ottoman Imperial Harem. The title literally means "Chief of the Girls".
"the word generally designates some incapacity for or abstention from procreation, whether due to natural constitution or to physical mutilation. For instance, Lucian suggests two methods to determine whether someone is a eunuch: physical inspection of the body, or scrutiny of his ability to perform sexually with females."
"a male whose entire genitalia is removed. Done as punishment in Ancient Rome, and to qualify for royal government service in China as recently as the 20th century. Also, the hijdra, a caste of Indian transexuals, practice this complete castration."
-"a male whose sexual glands (testes) have been removed before puberty; a castrated male. Eunuchs, or 'castrati' develop many of the secondary sex characteristics of females, especially a higher voice, absence of a beard, and scanty body hair."
"So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship."
Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely separate me from His people " Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree." For thus says the LORD, "To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial, And a name better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off."
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
The Story of Sodom & Gomorrah (Genesis 19)
This story in Genesis 19 is probably the most popular passage used to condemn homosexuality.
God sends two angels disguised as men into the City of Sodom where the men of Sodom threatened to rape them. The angels blind the men, and God destroys the city. For centuries, this story was interpreted as God's judgment on same-sex relations, but the only form of same-sex behavior described is a threatened gang rape. "
So gang rape = not good (also not the same thing as homosexuality). But the recap of Sodom & Gomorrah found in Ezekial 16:49 highlights what Vines believes is the real point of the story:
"Now, this was the sin of your sister, Sodom. She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned, they did not help the poor and needy."
In other words, everyone using this story as evidence of the sin of homosexuality, looks to be missing the point entirely.
When God calls homosexuality an abomination (Leviticus 18:22) (Leviticus 20:13)
Yep. We've all heard that Leviticus is where the Bible straight-up says that homosexual behavior is an abomination. And yes, it does. It also says that homosexuals should receive the death penalty (!!!). It also says the same thing about eating pork or shellfish, charging interest on loans, and a whole bunch of other restrictions that were a part of the Old Testament Law Code. But for Christians, the Old Testament shouldn't settle any issue because Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the law. Which is probably why most Christians today eat meat, use credit cards, wear makeup, and support equality for women. Because, as Hebrews 8:13 says, the old law is obsolete and aging.
"49 crosses for 49 victims"
Jesus hung out with prostitutes, drunkards, and those labeled as "undesirables".
When Jesus asked Levi to come with him, He goes for dinner, “And when the scribes and Pharisees saw Him eating with the tax collectorR03;sR03; and sinners, they said to His disciples, “How is it that He eats and drinks with tax collectors and sinners?” Jesus answered, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Mark 2:13-17)
Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”
Jesus hung out with "sinners" so much that he was accused of being a glutton and a winebibber.
19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children.”
But this is odd. Like, there will always be the extremists and the more casual groups of a community. I don't think we can judge an entire community based like that. Then we can not ever get to an answer on arguments like this. Instead we need to look at the facts and the "laws" of the religion, to be able to determine whether or not, Christianity is pro or against LGBT. And the religion itself is absolutely against LGBT, but that does not say anything about the members of the religion. That's up to them.
So if I was to answer your topic "Christianity is not the enemy of the LGBT community". I would say the religion is, but some parts of the community is not.
And about homosexuality being a sin. Yes. I SO AGREE with you on this matter. A lot of things in the bible does not make any sense in a modern day society. We can not go around and stone women for being unfaithful, or chopping of hands off, of thieves if they stole something. That is so important! But again. We are discussing the religion, not the community. And the religion itself is not pro-LGBT.
"Still, I would like some meaning behind all of these quotes from the bible. You just keep throwing them around randomly. For example, what's up with the eunuchs? Like, they have nothing to do with the LGBT community."
They do in this debate. Eunichs consist of the LGBT community of which Christ, our infallable leader, and God, our infallable leader, understood as natural and normal according to the Bible itself. The Bible/Christ is what Christians go by for infallable direction.
"And about homosexuality being a sin. Yes. I SO AGREE with you on this matter. A lot of things in the bible does not make any sense in a modern day society."
The Old Testament and Jesus Christ are 2 different things. He stood against the Judaistic ideas such as stoning adulterers, not eating a plethera of foods, etc etc.
"And the religion itself is absolutely against LGBT."
Not actually. We will need a citation for this. I have one.
"Judge not lest you be judged, for by the measure you judge, you shall be judged."
"And about homosexuality being a sin."
1)According to Christ? He never mentioned homsexuality once in the Bible.
2)So is looking upon a woman with lust in your heart. Looks like we are all screwed. That's why we know a term called "grace".
-In Christian theology, grace has been defined, not as a created substance of any kind, but as "the love and mercy given to us by God because God desires us to have it, not because of anything we have done to earn it."
"We can not go around and stone women for being unfaithful, or chopping of hands off, of thieves if they stole something. That is so important! But again. We are discussing the religion, not the community. And the religion itself is not pro-LGBT."
We don't believe the same things as Judaism or Islam because of Jesus. He is what both of those religions lack and do not possess.
1)Love your enemy.
2)Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
3)Love your neighbor as yourself.
4)Do not judge.
GMOP forfeited this round.
-Members of the city"s LGBTQ community were invited up to one church"s altar to be prayed over. Many accepted, rose from their seats and stood tall in front of the congregation.
The proud gesture at the First Baptist Church of Orlando said much about how the reaction to the massacre at the gay nightclub Pulse on Sunday has measured a positive in social attitudes.
The Westboro Baptists, a notorious "Christian" cult known for "non-Christian-like" behaviors outraged the true Christian community.
-In the wake of the Orlando shooting, Westboro Baptist Church has come under fire yet again. As expected, many Americans have taken to social media to criticize the cult-like church, but now another group has voiced concerns about the beliefs of Westboro members. According to Charisma News, Christians are making it clear that absolutely nothing about Westboro Baptist Church"s stance is "Christian-like."
Pastor Rick Joyner took to Facebook to put things into perspective and gave his opinion of Westboro Baptist Church members" views. He even described Westboro"s message as an example of anti-Christ. "
GMOP forfeited this round.
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