Christianity(pro) vs Islam(con).
Debate Rounds (4)
This debate will not focus so much on theology rather than the real life implications and practices of each religion and their compatibility with modern and progressive society. I believe that the real world implications of Christianity have had a far better impact in modern society than Islam in the areas of:
Basic human interaction
There is a significant BOP on both sides as we must both provide evidence for our claims. Sources are not necessary and no penalty will be given for omitting them. However, should you decide to use a source, that is perfectly fine.
Please be polite and respectful. I feel that debates are much more enjoyable when there is a mutual respect between the two parties
If you do include a source, please cite it
and most importantly, have an open mind! :)
left Islam" this is for tolerance and peacefullness however in Bible in Deutronomy Chapter 13 a death oenalty for apostasy thank you
"If one strikes you on your cheek, turn the other to him also"
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of god"
"love your enemies, and bless those who curse you"
"And let the peace that comes from Christ rule in your hearts. For as members of one body you are called to live in peace. And always be thankful."
I challenge my opponent to fine ONE instance of violence or condoning of violence in the New Testament, which is the real Christian message. However, When we look at the Quran, we find a stark contrast to the Bible in terms of peace. When I read through the Quran, I found verses such as the following
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').
Quran (8:12) "I shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Cut off their heads and every fingertip of them." no reasonable person can argue that this means a spiritual struggle
Quran (8:67) "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."
Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.
Now with all this in mind, my opponent can throw all the verses of peace that he wants but there is no rebuttal that can refute these facts. In addition, any "peaceful" verse he gives me will be in direct contradiction to the verses mentioned above which would pose a major problem for Islam as a religion. My opponent can also attempt to cherry pick violent Bible verses but this will not work either because all violence in the Bible is found in the Old Testament and is justified against certain tribes who wanted the total destruction of Israel.
Id also like to raise a few points about Muslims vs Christians
1. Most Muslim countries are failed states while primarily Christian nations are wealthy and prosperous
2. Islam currently has the most extremists of any religion with hundreds of Islamic terrorist groups killing innocent civilians every day in the name of Allah. While it is true that Christian terrorist groups exist, they are very small compared to their muslim counterparts and their acts of terror are much less severe and find little to no backing from the Bible.
3. Several hundred Christian charities exist for non Christians and they provide aid and relief for displaced muslims while Islam does not operate a single charity for international aid. Christian Aid workers are also often at risk for kidnapping from islamic terrorists for helping in those countries
4. When Christians live in Muslim countries, they are constantly persecuted and are denied churches and houses of worship. When Muslims come to Christian countries, they are accepted as useful members of society and are allowed to gather and build mosques freely.
5. Christians in Muslim countries are killed for peacefully expressing their desire for equality. Muslims in Christian countries violently protest and demand that the government and schools change to fit their needs, claiming racism whenever they are criticized for their behavior.
6. Sharia law is considered higher than constitutional law in almost all Muslim countries. Sharia law promotes oppression, veiling of women, mandatory beards, religious police and a tax for non muslims. Christianity has no concept of religious law and separates church and state. with the exception of canon law, which only applies to clergy and is much less restricting than sharia.
While we're at it, lets compare the Prophet of Islam (Muhammed) and Jesus Christ;
1. Muhammed was a bandit and a warrior while Jesus was a preacher and a carpenter
2. Muhammed preached violence and demanded bodyguards while Jesus preached peace and chastised anyone who attempted to defend him with force
3. Muhammed took 12 wives and claimed revelations from god to justify his sex harems and polygamy. Jesus was celibate and never looked upon a woman in a lustful way
4. Muhammed married a 9 year old girl, fondled her and BATHED with her. Jesus ... well... didn't do that.
5. Muhammed spread his message through hate and war, killing anyone who wouldn't convert and taxing non muslims. Jesus spread his message through peace and baptism, using the gospel to bring people to god.
6. Early Muslims persecuted and killed non Muslims. Early Christians lived in constant persecution from the Roman government.
7. Jesus was said to do many miracles, with several eye witnesses bearing testament to his divinity while Muhammed was never able to do one miraculous thing in his life.
8. Muhammed: Demanded others die for him
Jesus: Suffered one of the most agonizing death for the sake of Humanity.
9. Jesus = most praised spiritual leader. Muhammed = most criticized spiritual leader.
(Many Muslims consider Muhammed to be the utmost example of a good person.)
I anxiously await my opponents answers to my points and hope he will make some of his own
My opponent has stated that both the Bible and the Koran should be taken as whole books rather than looking for individual verses of violence. Now this is true and I've never said the Bible is 100% flawless. I am only attempting to prove that Islam is more violent than Christianity, or in optimistic terms, Christianity is more peaceful than Islam. Unfortunately, as I said in my previous argument, when we read the Koran, we get an uneasy feeling of non-peacefulness. The Bible tends to focus on the rewards of living a good life for Jesus, inciting people with the rewards of heaven and being with God. The Koran, however tends to do the exact opposite. In the Koran, we find several verses scaring people into doing good deeds by threatening them with promises of hellfire and eternal suffering. By this comparison we can find that even the Koran is belligerent and prefers to bully people into doing the right thing rather than explain WHY to do the right thing. Another point to consider is that violence is littered throughout the Koran in almost every Sura. (Islamic version of a book) To reiterate, the only violence of the Bible is found in a few select chapters of the Old testament and is completely justified, unlike the rampant rape and pillage of Mohammed's armies.
My opponent also stated that Islamic wars were just as defensive as the wars Jews fought to defend Israel. Now unfortunately, the Koran he bases this off of begs to differ by its recollection of events. In order to give my opponent the proper reason for Mohammed's wars, lets go through a brief history of early Islam; Muhammad was born in Mecca to an Arabian pagan family. He grew up as a normal child. Historians argue whether he was a merchant or a bandit but historical evidence points to merchant as his likely occupation. In his 20s, Muhammad married a wealthy widow named Khadija, another Arabian pagan. After their marriage Muhammad began seeing "revelations from god" which were likely hallucinations brought on by heat stroke and dehydration. In these questionable revelations, the Archangel Gabriel revealed the Koran to Muhammad and told him to preach in the city of Mecca where he was born. He began to preach in the Kabba, which was a pagan worship center with the Arabian gods encircling it. City authorities expelled Muhammad from Mecca for teaching a heresy. Muhammad then emigrated to Medina where Islam received a much warmer welcome, There, he preached that fighting for God was the only way to win his favor and gathered an army to CAPTURE MECCA BY FORCE. (thats right, rather than preach and be persecuted, Mohammed took up the sword to advance his own agenda) only 5 years after its advent, Islamic warriors inspired by the "religion of peace" captured Mecca by force and ransacked the city. It is said that Mohammed beheaded up to 800 Jews in a single day. After his conquest had captured what is now Saudi Arabia, the religion of peace stormed across the borders into Turkey, Iraq and Egypt. The verses I stated in the previous argument were in reference to those wars. The simple fact is that no one can consider those wars to be defensive. Mohammed wasn't defending himself from persecution, he was killing innocent Jews Christians and Pagans who were defending THEMSELVES from persecution by Muslims. No matter how my opponent chooses to spin this information, the simple truth is that Mohammed's wars were conquest and not defensive.
Christianity, however never took up arms to spread but rather endured lasting persecution, using peace and love to bring people to the religion. The only Christian war that was ever fought was the Crusades, which were retaliatory strikes to Muslim aggression.
by these facts, we can soundly put the nail in the coffin for my opponents assertion that Islamic wars were defensive as Jewish ones were.
My opponent also mentioned that Muslims are loving and tolerant to Non Muslims. (or Kuffar in Arabic) This is also an utterly false concept as even a quick glimpse into the history and laws of Islamic Caliphates offer a very different view. In the Islamic caliphate, A christian man is 1 half of a Muslim man and a Christian woman is one quarter of a Muslim man. A pagan man is 1/4 of a Muslim male and a pagan woman is 1/8 of a Muslim male. This means that if a Muslim man killed a christian woman, there would have to be 2 christian male witnesses present to convict the man whereas if a christian killed a Muslim, one Muslim testimony is all it would take to send the defendant to the chopping block. Also, under Sharia, non Muslims must pay a tax called the Jizya, which among other things, funds Islamic warriors who conquer and to oppress other people. Essentially, non Muslims are forced into aiding their captors. It is also a well known fact that one must pay the Jizya on his or her knees and look at the ground. They also must beg the tax collector to take their money which is a very degrading and inhumane system. In the verses my opponent mentioned, Mohammed is telling his followers not to kill non Muslims who "we have an alliance with" alliance as in living under the caliphate. This doesnt mean a whole lot as Mohammed is basically saying not to bother killing people theyve already got under their control.
My opponent brought up two verses in the New testament that he believes condone violence. one of these verses was the most contravention saying of Jesus Christ "I came not to bring peace but a sword." now on the surface this appears to hint that Jesus came to kill. This is simply not true. Jesus' sword was never a literal one. In fact, when Peter takes up a sword to defend him he says "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword" implying that Jesus wants no armed defense or bodyguards. Jesus' "sword" was a spiritual one that he would use to destroy the power of the devil in mankind and join heaven and earth once more. The other verse was "take those who would not have me as king and slay them before my face" This verse is not an actual quote of Luke but rather part of a apocryphal parable he was telling in which an insane and power hungry king is made good by the power of the Holy spirit. Luke did not say this in reference to his real life enemies but rather towards the kings enemies in the parable. Thus, my opponent has still failed to come up with a violent verse in the New testament.
In reference to Solomon's 200 wives, God never approved of it and in fact told Solomon several times that this was not the way to live. Mohammed's wives and concubines, however, were approved of by Allah many times. Also, Solomon was a Jew, so his actions are not a burden on us Christians.
Im also glad my opponent brought up Aisha. Aisha was 6 years old when Mohammed married her and 9 when he had sex with her to consummate their marriage. By this fact, Aisha should not be used in any way to defend Islam as she is one of the largest reasons Islam is so heavily criticized and seen as a backwards religion.
I hope my opponent takes these arguments to heart
The verse in Chapter 9 of al Jizyah is talking about specific Jews and christians who atracked us and caused harm amd so they need to oay compensation of losses and this is still the system in modern day war and I dint approve conquers anyway and if you believe the wars are offensive I demmand your answer for this verse"God doesnt forgid you tocbefriends with disgelievers who didnt FIGHT youcfor religion......." and "If they incline to peace incline to it" Regarding Muhammed entrance to Mecca it wasnt a conquer, it was a forced RETURN to Mecca adter peesecution as the cerses says in Al fatih"Youcthought that the Prophet and the believers wont return backcto their families(Children and wives) " and Muslims didnt even killcone person that day as in ABukhari"Go you are free today and I forgive you" and the verses of al Tawbah hich demmand Muslims return to Mecca it says"amd if anycof the infidels seek your refuge then five it to them and tell them the words of God and take them to safe place" so this shows that day Muhammed was ordered to accept refuge of peaceful Infidels who didnt persecute Muslims and even those who persecuted and repented can seek refuge !! amd there werent anyother conquests at the time of Muhammed anymore as this was a return and he didnt HARM any of the infidels as the verses show anyway and the verses of Baqarah"Get them out From where they drobe you out" which means JUST fight until you return your properties and homes which they took after driving you out !! Regarding 1/4 amd 1/8 I demmand a verse in Quran justifying that! and I demmand also many things : if wars are offensive what is "Fight in cause of God those who fight you ..." and it seems you tend to brush off my question in he previous round "Wasnt Jesus the God of Moses ??" Didnt he say"imdidnt came to abolish the law" then HE approved the death of All the city in Joshua even females and children and Deutronomy and the Spoils of War and Number when Moses killed all the people excelt virgin womem ?? You say deffense then way was it in numbers Gods Vengence as stated ?? and about Allah using more threatining than convincing then I tell you true statistics and search them :the occurance of word Athab (paimin Hell) is EqUAL to Thawab (Rewards in Heavan) and Jannah (haeavns) is EQUAl to occurance of Al Nar (Hellfire) which shows the balanced-words of the Most Wise and violence in Old Tesa,ent is not defrenive as David praising dashing children into rocks and more and theres a long list amd notfew as you say !! what about Deut 2:25 "All nations should be terrorized by Nation of Yahwah(ieJesus) or Yahwah isnt jesus ?? and Deutornomy 7:2 when Yahwah instructs killing of all cities under CONQUER and 3:3-6 when they killed Mem amd Womem amd Children was that defrensive ?? killing women ?? and Joshua 6:21 he killed mem and womem am children under whose imstructions amd about 800 jews what bout the tweleve thousands of Joshua 8:25 men and womem ?! amd Isiah 13:15-18 when God whished to rape their wives and smash thoer children amd Eizeikal 9:10 prders to kill thowmwhole city and have no mercy and Sa,eul 2 when David burns cities and who was thier God who instructed them ?! about the 800jews theres no historical account if them In Quran amd they came through narrations which may not be true and may be fabricated and ket me cocmlide with this verse if Quran in Chapter Al Maidah of Cain and Habel which says"If you (O brother) rose your hand to kill me I would never rise my hand to kill you (for deffense) I fear God the Lord of Universe " and "adm whoever kills a soul without being in court for justice as if he killed all the nations and he who made it alive as if he made all nations live" and in Al Furqan " The Slaves of Allah are those who if disgelievers spoke harsh to them they reply with PEACE" and Al Baqarah" Those who are Muslims and Jews and Christians who believe in AGodamd the Last Day and do good deeds no fear on them on that Day and they wouldnt get doomed"
Regardless of this I will make a few short rebuttals followed by my closing statements.
My opponent stated that the Jizya was a war reparation payed by specific Christians jews and Pagans who terrorized the Islamic State. The simple fact is that the Jizya is a tax for ALL non Muslims regardless of age, income or previous crimes. Warping facts does little to construct an argument
My opponent also stated that the invasion of Mecca was not a conquest. This is a false and laughable concept as Muhammed surrounded the city with a massive army to force them into surrendering.
Before I close I want to thank con for a very interesting and entertaining debate
Throughout this debate I have provided substantial evidence that:
1. Islamic teaching is more violent teaching
2. Islamic history is far bloodier than christian history
3. and that the Muslim world generally sees more religious violence than the christian world
please vote on who presented a better argument and not only your personal opinion
1-No more burrial of alive female babies out of shame as Quran stopped it(Al Shams)
2-Women in Islam can inherit their fathers and relatives properties unlike in Jahiliyah under orders of Quran (Al Nisaa)
3-Womem can divorce their husbands by Khulu as in al Talaq amd prohibitng the Thihar (Al Mojadila)
4-Women concubines must not be forced to intercourse but evem given a dowry and after the permission of parents and even Muslims are ordered to give them freedom if they demmand it as al Nisaa "And who cant marry free womem then from those whom are bonded to you by oath amd Ankaehum(have intercourse) with the permission of thier parents and give them thier Ajr(dowries) and if any of your slaves came demmanding you write them record of freedom write it to him and give them money from which Allah gave you"
5- Women cant be beaten although some mistranslate the verse of Al nisaa toeman beating while it means seperate them since Idribuhun has Also the eaning of seperate from them and the evidence is the berse in Surat al Nisaa "You cant inherit women by force and you cant harm them" My opponent ignored the verses of Quran which progibits fighting disbelievers who are peaceful and Couldnt answer the crimes of old testament but no problem. After all a nice debate!
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