Christianity, their views on morality, gender equality and homophobic views.
Debate Rounds (3)
Note: The mistakes of my opponent are vast and deep. And no small shovel can clear the absolute pile of horse manure that is my challenger's opening statement. I am truly sorry to any poor soul who finds himself reading it. Though again, I'll bite. Mainly because I see so many childish caricatures of a serious worldview.
Rebuttal: (Ignoring altogether the first sentence. I have no idea what a "Fucward" is. Maybe the kids are saying it..)
1. My opponent's view of Scripture is quite probably the worst attempt at debunking I've seen since.. well ever. Christian's believe that the Bible is the very words of God recorded by men. So the bit about it being written by man is a misunderstanding of what Christians actually believe. In short, I simply bare no burden of defending a view I, and all Christians ever, do not hold.
2. I'll be speaking from the presupposition that when the Bible speaks, God speaks. (maybe that could be a future debate)
3. The crusades are a blemish, to be sure. But I don't think my opponent would like a body count between our worldviews. (assuming him to be some form of agnostic.. Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot...)
4. To the anti-gay question: The Bible classifies homosexuality as a sin, unambiguously. But the Bible classifies lots of sins. Sin is anything that transgresses the law of God that is given to us in the Bible. Interestingly, most every time the Bible speaks of homosexuality, it does so in a list of other sins. And assigns to all sin the same punishment. Most Christian scholars and commentators agree that the lists of sins are more directly aimed at placing humanity in the same category(sinful), assigning to them the same punishment (hell) and offering to them the same solution (repent of sin and turn to Christ for salvation- reconciliation to God. ) The attack on Christians because of this view is certainly a result of the recent cultural shift. Gay is the new.. well gay. Christians have always spoken out against it. We've always had the same ancient footing.
Most of the abuse being leveled now is Christian businesses being shut down by an over-reaching state. Most Christians that I know are loving toward there homosexual "neighbor" and they want for them the same reconciliation that they themselves have received. All sin, not repented of, leads to hell. What would you call someone who stood by and watched as their neighbor walked straight into hell? You'd call them hateful.
5. You seem to believe that the idea of loving everyone is the fundamental tenant of the Christian faith. Maybe a lesson here is due... besides I've got over 5000 characters I can still use. (Not my fault you only used 12 words..this is a debate, man. get your head in the game or this could get ugly.)
Fundamental Christian Idea:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
That is the Apostle's Creed. Notice how there is nothing in there about being Mr. Nice Guy?
In brief, you do not understand the worldview you're trying to critique. Your opening statement has made that abundantly clear. You haven't begun to touch on the issues that actually divide people like us. I really hope you can do better than that.
Positive argument: I've touched on Christianity and on homosexuality in my rebuttal. Now I would like to present a positive argument concerning morality and gender equality.
Gender Equality: Though your opening statement said nothing about gender equality, I will assume the old community college caricature that I've heard 1000 times. Basically that the Bible teaches that women are to be subject to men.
Well... that's just not what the Bible teaches at all. It's really not even close. The Bible teaches that wives are to be subject to their husbands. Notice the difference? One person must ultimately be in charge and must bare the ultimate responsibility for the household before God. The Bible teaches that the husband is the head. G. K. Chesterton (a stout-hearted Christian from yesteryear) said it perfectly:
"If I set the sun beside the moon,
And if I set the land beside the sea,
And if I set the flower beside the fruit
And if I set the town beside the country
And if I set the man beside the woman
I suppose some fool would talk
About one being better."
The husband and wife have different roles. They are equal intrinsically.
And finally, Morality: I will not apologize for my views on morality. I have a standard that I get them from. And I believe that standard is God, himself. However I am interested in where you, my opponent get your moral standard. I would like an answer to that question. I find it helpful to understand where a person is coming from. I am a classic Christian (Calvinist) you know where I am getting my shoulds-n-shouldnts.. I would venture to guess that your stance is almost completely arbitrary and self-serving. Though that is beside the point.
Final Point: As someone who has no objective standard of value and ethics, I'd love to know what makes you think you can criticize me for treating people badly. What possible justification could you have to call foul or have some kind of beef with Christianity?
Hopefully your response is more thought out and accurate than your opening statement. I also pray that there is less words in ALL CAPS.
Good day. Sincerely, Your friendly neighborhood Calvinist.
NotStupid forfeited this round.
Jhessa forfeited this round.
NotStupid forfeited this round.
Jhessa forfeited this round.
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