The Instigator
MarxistKid
Con (against)
Tied
18 Points
The Contender
Jlconservative
Pro (for)
Tied
18 Points

Christianity-undertones in society.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/22/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,899 times Debate No: 2090
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (12)

 

MarxistKid

Con

Hello, everyone. I would like to address a problem in American society. Well, to word it more correctly, an error. An error that built America to what it is today, one of the strongest countries in the world. Religion. To be precise, Christianity. Though it has been the building blocks of American society, now is the age of free thought, of the return of transcendental thinking. The old laws and ways of religion are loosing their power in law, and are becoming displeasing to see. Maybe it's time that we stop using God in certain aspects. If our president mentions God as a way to explain his doings, that is wrong. God did not grant us the ability to think and reason. That was given to us by the marvel of evolution. No deity in the sky gave us that power. So why should we put him into a society that should be free. Free of any limitations, as religion is one. Minorities should not be decided by religion, but of culture. However, as many cultures have been founded on religion, this would be difficult. I would only like to see a bit more open thought to the world in truth, not the world ruled by God. In my opinion, there is no god.
Before I end this, I would really like to say that I do not want this to be an argument on religion. That is a grinding wheel that only serves to chip away our sanity. I only want to discuss the affect of religion in modern day society. I believe that it should be minimized to as small as possible.
Jlconservative

Pro

Hello Marxistkid I thank you for the opportunity for this debate good luck,

Before I begin I want you to know I am a devout Catholic, I am very religious so I will take this debate very seriously. I hope that you will take nothing I say personally and know that I pray earnestly for people who live under your beliefs daily.

First of all I want to point out so far by what I have read your argument is strictly one hundred percent an opinionated argument. You have provided no facts or statistics that show Christianity is as you put it is truly "a problem in American society" on the contrary the Christian religion donates billions of dollars world wide a year. Just recently Pat Robertson a Christian minister of the Nazarene faith started a fund that sent 3.7billion to Katrina victims to help Katrina Victims: http://www.christianpost.com...
Tuition%2C_Donations_to_Katrina-Affected_Students.htm

These recent disasters merely scratch the surface of the money sent out to people in need that the Christian faith has achieved. So even with this small glimpse of what a small fraction of the Christian faith did, makes me question how "Christianity is a problem in society"

"An error that built America to what it is today, one of the strongest countries in the world. Religion. To be precise, Christianity."
This is pure hate speech, its foolishness and stupidity this is what is wrong with the young generation today. You call the separation from England in order to gain freedom of religion an error? you call all the blood spilt on land and sea in the war for Independence an error??? you call the men and women who risked ALL their homes,their land,their families, their lives in order to create a free society, where you are not what your born, but what you have it in yourself to become, a country that people like you and me take advantage of EVERY day an error?? The only reason that you and me have a country where we can speak our minds, worship the God we believe in, and have a government that is by the people and for the people, is because our fore fathers had the passion,the love, the understanding, the FAITH to achieve greatness...and yet you call it an error...

"now is the age of free thought, of the return of transcendental thinking. The old laws and ways of religion are loosing their power in law, and are becoming displeasing to see. Maybe it's time that we stop using God in certain aspects."

This is UNTRUE in this poll 83% of American citizens be they lies or truth say they are under the religion of Christianity. http://www.lifesite.net...

In fact according to a poll done by CBS in 07 were millions participated in "Americans do not believe that humans evolved, and the vast majority says that even if they evolved, God guided the process. Just 13 percent say that God was notinvolved. "http://www.cbsnews.com...

"If our president mentions God as a way to explain his doings, that is wrong."
No president of the United States of America, have justified his doings by a religious answer this is something that is not aloud and justifiably so. Show me one president who justified right or wrong doings because of God.
Also a side note, every single candidate in the 2008 election has made the statement "I am a Christian"

"I would only like to see a bit more open thought to the world in truth, not the world ruled by God. In my opinion, there is no god."

Well apparently due to every single statistic, poll, and graph a SMALL fraction of Americans usually around 11-14% do not believe a Gd exists. The fact you make "in my opinion" is exactly the issue. It is your opinion and yours alone.

"I only want to discuss the affect of religion in modern day society. I believe that it should be minimized to as small as possible."

The issue is your fighting for a religion, you and the small percentage of Americans who do not believe in God in any form, say that religion is the problem with the world, religion causes segregation and evil. Yet you fail to look into the mirror your self. YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR A RELIGION!!! Evolution is a religion!!

Religion:
a personal set or institutionalized system of attitudes, beliefs, and practices.

Evolution fits into this detention of religion found in the Webster dictionary perfectly. You fight to abolish religion, God, Faith, which are good and pure things, almost all of the laws of society are taken from the 10 commandments. You fight to abolish something that this country was and is based on... that "All men are created equal"
Debate Round No. 1
MarxistKid

Con

Well, let us look over what I have laid before me.

>>Before I begin I want you to know I am a devout Catholic, I am very religious so I will take this debate very seriously. I hope that you will take nothing I say personally and know that I pray earnestly for people who live under your beliefs daily. <<

Not at all JlConservative. I will take nothing here more than I have too. I want to take that worry off your chest. Please, too many people on the web today are very... loud.

Now, as it is your duty to find the points where I am, it is my duty to counter it.

>> The only reason that you and me have a country where we can speak our minds, worship the God we believe in, and have a government that is by the people and for the people, is because our fore fathers had the passion,the love, the understanding, the FAITH to achieve greatness...and yet you call it an error...

The only reason why we have a free country is because we built our fancy buildings over corpses of the Native Americans, many of which we converted over to "The Right" Religion. Passion, love and understanding.
Our founding fathers made sure to poison the ways of Native Americans the best way he could.
http://www.nebraskastudies.org...
They would take land from the noble people in exchange for what? Teachers who instructed them on the ways of white people, which includes their religion.
Quote from Nebraskastudies:
"The missionary societies supported the plan as they agreed with the government officials that this was the only way the Indians had a chance for survival was to adopt the white ways and eventually become assimilated into the white society."

>>In fact according to a poll done by CBS in 07 were millions participated in "Americans do not believe that humans evolved, and the vast majority says that even if they evolved, God guided the process. Just 13 percent say that God was notinvolved. "http://www.cbsnews.com......

Millions. Millions? Try 885 people. On the same page http://www.cbsnews.com...
Quoted from the very same page:
"This poll was conducted among a nationwide random sample of 885 adults interviewed by telephone November 18-21, 2004. There were 795 registered voters. The error due to sampling could be plus or minus three percentage points for results based on all adults and all registered voters."

Obviously, my opponent has changed the facts to his own advantage. People refrain from doing that in the future, or I might think your don't care about this debate enough to come to me honest. Ok?

>>No president of the United States of America, have justified his doings by a religious answer this is something that is not aloud and justifiably so. Show me one president who justified right or wrong doings because of God.

http://baltimorechronicle.com...

Quote: "God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam."

So it was not in response to 9/11? Well then, I guess he will do whatever the voice in his head he refers to as "God" tells him to do. What's odd though is that "God" has not told him to strike North Korea, which is a godless nation and has spend it's government money on WMD's and not taking care if it's hungry hurting people.

>>Well apparently due to every single statistic, poll, and graph a SMALL fraction of Americans usually around 11-14% do not believe a Gd exists. The fact you make "in my opinion" is exactly the issue. It is your opinion and yours alone.

From the last "accurate" poll you gave me, I think this statement could very well be your own opinion as well, unless you can give me some actually real evidence that so little people in America believe that.

>>You fight to abolish religion, God, Faith, which are good and pure things, almost all of the laws of society are taken from the 10 commandments. You fight to abolish something that this country was and is based on... that "All men are created equal"
http://www.archives.gov...
When this famous paper was written, religion was strongly needed. That I have no argument about. The people of America were dealing with several dangerous throughout their life. Disease, famine, harsh bitter winters, and the intimidating power of Britain looming over their heads. They needed to believe that God was on their side, guiding them to build an independent nation, free from taxation without representation.
However, that was then, my friend. Religion was needed, but only as a crutch to help the nation get to its feet. Now it is a strong nation, one of the strongest in the world, to boot. With that, religion is no longer needed. We need to keep the ideals we were founded on, not the religion.

Thank you.
Jlconservative

Pro

Jlconservative forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
MarxistKid

Con

Now, this is a story all about how my life got flipped-turned upside down and I liked to take a minute just sit right there I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called 100 characters of fun
Jlconservative

Pro

I apologize Maxistkind I have been so busy this week, with little time and some internet issues I did not get to the last round in time. O

Ok well first of all your argument is strictly opinionated here is the actual poll I found earlier.

That very large majorities of the American public, and almost all (but not all) Christians believe in God, the survival of the soul after death, miracles, heaven, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the Virgin birth will come as no great surprise. What may be more surprising is that half of all adults believe in ghosts, almost a third believe in astrology, and more than a quarter believe in reincarnation – that they were themselves reincarnated from other people. Majorities of about two-thirds of all adults believe in hell and the devil, but hardly anybody expects that they will go to hell themselves.

These are some of the findings of a Harris Poll of 2,201 U.S. adults surveyed online between January 21 and 27, 2007, using the same methods used by Harris Interactive´┐Ż to forecast the 2000 elections with great accuracy.

The survey also found that women are more likely than men to hold both Christian and non-Christian beliefs. African-Americans are more likely than whites and Hispanics to hold Christian beliefs, as are Republicans. The level of belief is generally highest among people without a college education and lowest among those with postgraduate degrees.

* The 90% of adults who believe in God include 93% of women, 96% of African-Americans and 93% of Republicans but only 86% of men, 85% of those with postgraduate degrees, and 87% of political independents.
* The 84% of those who believe in the survival of the soul after death include 89% of women but only 78% of men, 86% of those without a college degree but only 78% of those with postgraduate degrees.
* The 84% of the public who believe in miracles falls to 72% among those with postgraduate degrees, and rises to 90% among women and 90% among African-Americans.
* The 82% who believe in heaven includes 89% of women but only 75% of men and falls to 71% among people aged 25 to 29 and those with postgraduate degrees.

On almost all the beliefs that are central to Christianity, there is a general pattern with:

* Higher levels of belief among women than among men.
* Lower level of belief among people aged 25 to 29.
* Higher levels of belief among people with no college education and lower levels of belief among those with postgraduate education.
* Higher levels of belief among African-Americans than among whites and Hispanics.

Other interesting findings include:

* 68% of the public believes in the devil, and 69% believe in hell.
* 51% of the public, including 58% of women, and 65% of those aged 25 to 29 but only 27% of those aged 65 and over believe in ghosts.
* 31% of the public believes in astrology including 36% of women and 43% of those aged 25 to 29 but only 17% of people aged 65 and over, and 25% of men.
* 27% believe in reincarnation, that they were once another person. This includes 40% of people aged 25 to 29 but only 14% of people aged 65 and over.

What Christians and Non-Christians Believe

One of the more intriguing findings is that not all people who call themselves Christians believe all the conventional Christian beliefs. For example, one percent of Christians do not believe in God, 8% do not believe in the survival of the soul after death, 7% do not believe in miracles, 5% do not believe in heaven, 7% do not believe in the Virgin birth and 18% do not believe in hell.

Even more surprising is that some people who say they are not Christian believe in the resurrection of Christ (26%) and the Virgin birth, Jesus born of Mary (27%).

Life After Death

Most of the 84% of the public who believe in the survival of the soul after death are optimists. Almost two-thirds (63%), including 75% of Christians, expect to go to heaven. Only 1% expect to go to hell. Six percent expect to go to purgatory while 11% expect to go somewhere else and 18% don't know.

Humphrey Taylor is the chairman of The Harris Poll´┐Ż, Harris Interactive.

The fact is Marxistkid the belief in God is the right of every man on this earth. This country was founded and based on freedom of religion. It is your right to believe what appeals to you most as is it mine. The truth is the theory of "evolution" is a religion..you say that you want God taken out of government and in Gods place you want the theory of evolution. Well this is extremely Hypocritical and some extremely communistic idealism. The government should dictate what belief is used in politics and decission making?? this leads to complete eradication of freedom of religion. The FACT that you must observe is that the majority of Americans believe in God in some form be it Christianity to Islam the majority of citizens reject your theory. HE THEORY of evolution may be in big trouble, according to no less an authority than Charles Darwin.

"If it could be demonstrated," he once wrote, "that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, excessive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."

The breaking down has begun, according to many critics of evolutionary theory -- who are more convinced than ever that Darwin's concept is destined for the slag heap of humanity's failed ideas.

In recent years, science has made great strides in understanding the immense intricacies of various organisms. "Inside every human cell sits a tiny encoded DNA coil five-thousandths of a millimeter in diameter -- which, if unfolded, would be one meter long," writes Jay Richards of the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based non-profit education foundation. "Even Bill Gates has observed: 'DNA is like a computer program, but far, far more advanced than any software we've ever created.'"

Evolution theorist Charles Darwin
"Darwin knew nothing of these things," says Toronto-based Denyse O'Leary, author of the soon-to-be-published By Design or By Chance? "He was a clever man, but he had no idea what he was talking about. He lived and died before these wonders came to light."

Marxistkid you suggest that God be removed from government,(more than it already has been) however it is FACT that the majority of Americans believe in God. It is FACT that the theory of evolution is under great stress today due to the sheer impossibility of life being created by mere chance due to the extreme complexity of life. What you suggest is removing God in government, placing a theory instead, a theory that the majority reject. These ideas are communistic I suggest taking them and Hillary Clinton to Russia or China and attempt to make an impact there. Because it is our right and yours to have a belief system of what ever our hearts desire, and to say that Christianity, a religion based on "love your neighbors as your self", a religion that loves and helps society financially and compassionately is moronic. Take those communistic ideas to Russia because here we are free to choose where we stand. Religion of any proportion has a set of attributes. It is my right to select what side I will stand on due to there religion.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by MarxistKid 9 years ago
MarxistKid
Then I was wrong. So many people have trouble in admitting their own error. For that time I thought that luck was on my side. I was promptly mistaken, as JLconservative finished this round with several good points. I will not take his credit away, as he earned it.
Posted by Renzzy 9 years ago
Renzzy
So, um... marxistkid, why are you losing if IN YOUR OPINION you did so well and smashed you opponent? It seems that because of your arrogance your have lost the debate. Personally, I think Pro did a very good job, and I think you are very arrogant. Watch you tone and your attitude in your next debate, and you might do better.
Posted by Jlconservative 9 years ago
Jlconservative
Again I apologize for my unpunctuality
Posted by MarxistKid 9 years ago
MarxistKid
Final Thoughts:
I was really disappointed with this debate. My opponent has a history of winning debates, and I thought he would give me a run for my money here. But it was ridiculously easy for me. I had several facts he chose not to address. Actually, he decided not to attempt to debate anything I said or anything at all. For my round 3 response, I just joked around. I really didn't care at that point. I know I had become the victor.
I guess this just wasn't your day Jlconservative.
Vote Con.
Posted by Jlconservative 9 years ago
Jlconservative
haha well I appreciate the complements im glad to see you made the right choice
Posted by MarxistKid 9 years ago
MarxistKid
Well of course I chose Guild Wars!
I did my homework with you when you decided to join. You're the kinda guy I like.
The kind that does his homework.
Posted by Jlconservative 9 years ago
Jlconservative
haha well my friend I hope you don't choose the wrong one, because apparently if you do you may very well end up pushing up daisies.
Posted by MarxistKid 9 years ago
MarxistKid
Oh, and I am deciding on a new MMO to play. Guess which one I chose after reading a certain debate you may or may not have been apart of?
:3
Posted by MarxistKid 9 years ago
MarxistKid
My biggest fault is
"People refrain from doing that in the future..."
Please look it as
"Please refrain from doing that in the future..."
Thank you
Ugh, the annoying small things that you don't see until it's too late....
Posted by Jlconservative 9 years ago
Jlconservative
no issues with me, oh and I apologize for giving you the wrong link to the NBC poll, I had about 12 of them open but I see you jumped on that. I will be sure to include it in my next argument but again I am pretty busy here so look for my next piece tonight or early tomorrow. Take care
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