The Instigator
wmickas
Pro (for)
The Contender
Aicha
Con (against)

Christianity vs Islam

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Debate Round Forfeited
Aicha has forfeited round #5.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/16/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 576 times Debate No: 103221
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

wmickas

Pro

Muslims and Christians agree on several topics. Namely, we agree that God exists. We also agree on several social issues going on today. Here is where we disagree on. We disagree with Muhammad is a prophet, deity of Christ and the trinity. My opponent and I will discuss these topics. I hope this will be a fruitful dialogue. I will allow my opponent to give his case on why Islam is correct on these topics.
Aicha

Con

In the name of Allah the most merciful and the most graceful and peace be upon the last messenger of God Mohammed.
Mainly I have concerns regarding the deity of the Christ Jesus, and I'll state my points about this topic:
1-Will you worship Jesus, or the one Jesus worshiped? Mainly because we shall worship the creator and not the creation, and Jesus is the creation of God and not the creator of us and everything else.
2- Jesus never said I am God.
Here are the passages from the OT where God says he is God:
Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins.
3-Jesus was given power and authority, he did not own it. And the powers given to him are by God all mighty and yet god has the ability to take them back. Which means there is an owner of a higher power that should be praised for the ability to give Jesus these powers and not Jesus himself.
Debate Round No. 1
wmickas

Pro

Thank you Aicha. I will answer these objections.
1 The answer to that question is yes. But on a serious point, can you show me where in the gospels was Jesus was created? When I read the Bible, I read something completely different. (John 1:1, John 8:56-58 and John 17:5) Also I this is a misunderstanding of the trinity called modalism we don't say that Jesus is the father. We believe that Jesus and the father along with the holy spirit are equally God coequal and coeternal.
2 "Jesus never said 'I am God'. While it is true that Jesus never said those exact words, I believe that Jesus teaches his divinity all throughout the Gospels both synoptic, and John. At Jesus's trial, he was asked, "Art thou the Christ the Son of the blessed?" He answered saying, "I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:61-62). You may be thinking that the fact he called himself the son of man that it proves he is not divine. My response to this is that he quoted Daniel 7:13-14, "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Jesus described himself as I AM (cross reference with Exodus 3:14) in the following list.
"I am the bread of Life (John 6:35,48,51)
"I am Light of World (John 8:12; 9:39)
"I am the door of the sheep (John 10:7,9)
"I am the good shepherd (John 10:11,14)
"I am the Resurrection and the life (John 11:25-26)
"I am the Way the Truth and the Life (John 14:6)
"I am the True Vine (John 15:1,5)
"Before Abraham was I am (John 8:58)
"Unless you believe that I am you will die in your sins (John 8:24)
Jesus described himself as having power on earth to forgive sins (Matthew 9:6, Mark 2:10 and Luke 5:24). He also accepted worship as deity from Thomas when he saw that he was risen (John 20:28-29). Jesus claims things that according to the Qur'an can only apply to Allah (compare John 5:25 and John 14:6 to Surah 22:6-7) If Jesus was saying that he was only a prophet of God, then he must be the worst communicator in all of history. Also in response to this could you tell me where Jesus said that he is only a prophet in those exact words?
3 I have a question in John 5:19 we see that Jesus could do what the father could do. In Isaiah 42:8. In the light of this, why would God give authority to do everything he could do to a created being?
I will now give my opponent an opportunity to respond.
Aicha

Con

Thank you,
In response to your question "Why would God give authority to do everything he could do to a created being?" God didn't give Jesus the complete authority yet he gave him some signs to show people that Jesus is a prophet and not a normal human being.

1- Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both within and outside the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons " the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit " in one divine being.

If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:

"...we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one... they are not three gods, but one God... the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal... he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity..." (excerpts from the Athanasian Creed)

2- The Jesus of the Bible rejects those that preached and taught in his name. He casts them aside and disassociates himself from them because their work was evil and they were evil.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23.

This rejection is for the Trinitarian who ascribes Jesus as a partner to God, because there is nothing more evil and disgusting than ascribing a partner to God.
Debate Round No. 2
wmickas

Pro

Thank you Aicha.
Again John 5:19 says that Jesus could do everything that the father could do. If he could do everything that the father could do then obviously he is coequal with the father. Was Jesus made to be coequal with the father or was he eternally coequal with the father?
I also commend Aicha for accurately representing the trinity. I have not seen this very much in all my encounters with Muslims, so thank you. I agree that there is much controversy over this subject. I will assert that the trinity is the doctrine that is most consistent with the Bible. I will make my case for the trinity if my opponent wants.
I must say that I am disappointed with the rest of the rebuttal. He did not rebut any of the scripture that I used. He has a chance to get to the verses I shared in the rest of his rebuttals.
He quoted Matthew 7:21-23 saying that he condemns people who were preached and taught in his scripture. This interpretation does not fit in harmony with the book of Acts as a whole or John 14:14. A better interpretation would be that Jesus was talking about the people who use his name for self gain (as many preachers today do) or preach his name hypocritically.
He says the the worship of Christ as deity is shirk (associating partners with Allah) this is the unforgivable sin in Islam. Some Muslims like Dr. Shabir Ally disagree. But I believe that my opponent's statement sets the theme for the why this debate is important to Muslims and Christians.
Aicha

Con

Thank you,
Yet I'm still concerned with the deity of Jesus, since you believe that he got the complete authority from god it doesn't mean that he is "god" and doesn't mean that he should be worshiped. 1st of all because Jesus never said that he is god yet never said worship me and second of all there is only one god to worshiped and he is Allah the creator of everything including Jesus.
-Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;.He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. (112)
-And yet some people assert, "God has taken unto Himself a son!" Limitless is He in His glory! [96] Nay, but His is all that is in the heavens and on earth; all things devoutly obey His will. - 2:116
Debate Round No. 3
wmickas

Pro

Thank you Aicha.
I have already responded to this in my first rebuttal. I have not seen a response to most of my arguments or my responses I am still disappointed. I know what the Qur'an says in regards to the subject of the deity of Christ. This debate is about what data we have from the Bible and the Qur'an on this subject. I believe that I have made a good case from both in my first response. I would like to see my opponent interact with some of these before the end of the debate.
Aicha

Con

Thank you,
-In response to whether Jesus was made to be coequal with the father or was he eternally coequal with the father?
In my opinion what's the point of having Jesus if he can do the exact same things as the father?
-And in response to where Jesus did say that he is only a prophet in those exact words? "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
This simply means that he's a medium that you should seek whenever you want to repel to god, but he shouldn't be worshiped.
Debate Round No. 4
wmickas

Pro

Thank you Aicha.
I will respond and then conclude. My opponent says that John 14:6 saying that Jesus is only the medium to come to God. The problem here is that Allah is the truth is the truth in Surah 22:6-7. I cited this as Jesus saying that he is applying to himself the attributes of Allah.
The conclusion is the gospel. God came down as Jesus Christ in the flesh to take upon himself the sins of the whole world. He was crucified was buried and he rose again the third day according the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and Philippians 2:5-11) If you want to know the hope that is only found in Christ, please go to http://blazeofhope.weebly.com...
If you want to contact me please go to http://blazeofhope.weebly.com.... If you want to debate me, please go to http://blazeofhope.weebly.com... you want me to be a guest speaker, please go to http://blazeofhope.weebly.com...
God bless!
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by canis 11 months ago
canis
Yes..Yes..Yes... Always a VS..That is religion..Without a VS it can not exist....
Posted by JamesCroft 11 months ago
JamesCroft
Thank Jesus there are Christians exposing the false lies of Islam and offering hope to Muslims looking for the Truth which is the Life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ who died for the sins of the world.
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