The Instigator
SirMaximus
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
philipisbad
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Christianity

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/27/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 444 times Debate No: 83127
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

SirMaximus

Con

In this debate, I am arguing against the religion of Christianity. My opponent will argue for the religion of Christianity. Note that this is not a debate about the factuality of Christianity, but rather a debate about the morality of Christianity. We are not debating about whether Christianity is true, but about whether it is moral.

Here are some things in the Bible, the holy book of Christianity, that I think are immoral:

Exodus 22:18: "Do not allow a sorceress to live."

Leviticus 15:19-33: Don't have sex with a menstruating woman. Anything that a menstruating woman touches is unclean and dirty. Stay away from a menstruating woman.

Leviticus 20:13: If a man sleeps with a man, you should kill both of them.

Leviticus 27:3-7: A woman isn't worth as much as a man is.

Romans 1:26-27: Homosexuality is unnatural.

1 Timothy 2:11-12: A woman should not assume authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

I welcome anyone to accept this and debate me.
philipisbad

Pro

My opponent does not realize that the Bible was written in the context of thousand of years ago, where these things were accepted. Now, humans have changed their way of thinking, and these statements are nothing but obsolete. This is shown because most Christians do not follow these statements. Catechism is a better representation of Christianity. Of course, Christians can have different interpretation of these statements, but it still does not mean that Christianity is immoral. One has to read history in its context. The Bible was written by people who lived in that era and had the belief system of then. It is absurd to put the Bible out of context and call it immoral.
Debate Round No. 1
SirMaximus

Con

My opponent says, and I quote, "My opponent does not realize that the Bible was written in the context of thousand of years ago, where these things were accepted. Now, humans have changed their way of thinking, and these statements are nothing but obsolete." However, Jesus defended the Law in Matthew 5:18-19 and Luke 16:17. If Jesus (who was the Messiah according to the Bible) defended and upheld the Law, then why shouldn't modern-day Christians? If the answer to that question is that the Law is immoral, then modern-day Christians should admit that the Bible is not a moral guidebook.
philipisbad

Pro

My opponent is directly quoting the Bible and saying that such and such statements make Christianity immoral. Bible contains some controversial statements. Yes, but it was written thousands of years ago. We have to think this in the context of that time. Yes, Jesus did defend the law, However, he can also be quoted in saying this in Matthew 22:36: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

37 Jesus replied: ""Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." https://www.biblegateway.com...

The Catechism, which is a summary of Christian doctrine written by the Vatican, is a better representation of modern doctrine of Christianity. My opponent cannot refute the authority of the Catechism because it is the official doctrine of Christianity.

The seventh commandment forbids acts or enterprises that for any reason - selfish or ideological, commercial, or totalitarian - lead to the enslavement of human beings, to their being bought, sold and exchanged like merchandise, in disregard for their personal dignity. It is a sin against the dignity of persons and their fundamental rights to reduce them by violence to their productive value or to a source of profit. St. Paul directed a Christian master to treat his Christian slave "no longer as a slave but more than a slave, as a beloved brother, . . . both in the flesh and in the Lord."194 http://www.vatican.va... As seen from the Catechism, Christianity is against slavery.
Chirstinaity does believe homosexuality is unnatural because homosexuality does not lead to procreation. However, this is an opinion. Plus, Christianity does not intend to kill people because they are homosexuals anymore.
To summarize, my opponent is just taking things out of context to accuse Christianity of unreasonable charges.
Debate Round No. 2
SirMaximus

Con

I agree that "love your neighbour as yourself" is a great commandment. But I don't agree that all of Christianity is moral. My opponent says, "The Catechism, which is a summary of Christian doctrine written by the Vatican, is a better representation of modern doctrine of Christianity. My opponent cannot refute the authority of the Catechism because it is the official doctrine of Christianity." But is it really "the official doctrine of Christianity"? In my opinion, no. The Bible is, because it's the very foundation of Christianity.

My opponent also claims that the 7th Commandment forbids slavery. The 7th Commandment is "You shall not commit adultery." While I agree that this is a good commandment, what does adultery have to do with slavery?

My opponent says, "Chirstinaity [sic] does believe homosexuality is unnatural because homosexuality does not lead to procreation. However, this is an opinion. Plus, Christianity does not intend to kill people because they are homosexuals anymore." However, there is actually scientific evidence that homosexuality is natural (youtube.com/watch?v=70I7Nag4Eu8). And even though the majority of Christians don't kill homosexuals, that doesn't change Christianity itself. The Bible, which is the foundational text of Christianity, says that homosexuals deserve death, and that's what makes Christianity immoral, in my opinion.
philipisbad

Pro

Bible should not be taken for word by word. Not all Christians believe that Adam and Eve literary existed. Christians have the ability to distinguish what is right and wrong in the standard of modern society, and if the participants of Christianity is able to do that, Christianity is not immoral.
Plus, Old testament is the base of Judaism, not Christianity. Christianity focuses on the New testament. And according to the action of Jesus, he would never allow people to kill based on their sexuality and whatnot.
Debate Round No. 3
SirMaximus

Con

My opponent says, "Christians have the ability to distinguish what is right and wrong in the standard of modern society, and if the participants of Christianity is able to do that, Christianity is not immoral." It's true that the vast majority of Christians are good people. However, I am arguing that the Bible, which is the foundation of Christianity, is immoral. If the Bible is immoral, then so is Christianity, regardless of whether its followers are.

My opponent also says, "Plus, Old testament is the base of Judaism, not Christianity. Christianity focuses on the New testament. And according to the action of Jesus, he would never allow people to kill based on their sexuality and whatnot." However, as I have stated, Jesus defended the law of the Old Testament in the New Testament (Matthew 5:18-19, Luke 16:17). Therefore, if Christianity accepts the New Testament, then it must accept the Old Testament, as well. And some of the passages from the Bible that I referenced in Round 1 are from the New Testament.
philipisbad

Pro

After your quotation on Jesus defense of the law of the old testament, he goes on to say the following.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder
21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment." 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, "Raca,"[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, "You fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell.

23 "Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

25 "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery
27 "You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery."[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce
31 "It has been said, "Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce."[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths
33 "Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, "Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made." 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God"s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply "Yes" or "No"; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.[g]

Eye for Eye
38 "You have heard that it was said, "Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth."[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies
43 "You have heard that it was said, "Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy." 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
https://www.biblegateway.com...
As you can see, Jesus is not saying that the all of the old laws should be followed word by word, he is presenting his own interpretation. And this interpretation is the basis of Christianity.
Christianity is not necessary based entirely on every single word of Bible. It is also based on the modern teaching of Christianity. Religion does change. Christianity has changed. Christianity is not intend on killing people based on homosexuality or enslaving anyone. Bible is just a reference. As Jesus changed the law of the old testament, religion can and does change. Therefore, it is absurd to call Christianity immoral based just on Bible.
Debate Round No. 4
SirMaximus

Con

As this is the final round, I'd like to thank my opponent for this amazing debate. My opponent has made excellent arguments.

My opponent has cited some examples of Jesus in the New Testament doing away with certain Old Testament laws as evidence that modern Christians aren't necessarily bound by Old Testament law, or at least not all of it. However, my opponent has not cited any passages where Jesus does away with the any of the passages that I mentioned in Round 1. If Jesus wanted to do away with those, then why didn't he mention those? Furthermore, 2 of the passages that I mentioned in Round 1 (Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12) are from the New Testament. So, even if Jesus wanted to do away with the Old Testament, he did not want to do away with those 2 passages.
philipisbad

Pro

Timothy and Romans were written not by Jesus, but by the followers of Christianity after his death. Of course, those people lived in the era where homosexuality was considered evil and women were deemed lesser. While Jesus do not explicitly state anything about sexism in the Bible, he does treat women equally. A prime example of this is Mary Magdalene, who is accepted as his disciple even though she was a woman. Jesus forgives a woman caught in adultery despite of the tradition in the society. He talks to a Samaritan woman without any disrespect. Jesus is not a portrayed as a sexist. Thinking about this, it should be no surprise that Christianity states : "Each of the two sexes is an image of the power and tenderness of God, with equal dignity though in a different way". http://www.vatican.va...
Considering the treatment of woman by Jesus and the Catechism, it can be said that the passage in 1 Timothy is obsolete.
Catholic church does believe that homosexuality cannot be approved, but they do state this in its Catechism: "They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided." http://www.marriageuniqueforareason.org...
Yes, even I do not agree with Christianity's views on homosexuality. However, modern Christianity does not intend any harm for homosexual people. As long as they do not intend any harm, they cannot be called immoral.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by SirMaximus 1 year ago
SirMaximus
Nice job, philipisbad. You did very well. Thank you for debating with me. :)
Posted by Soldier_4Christ 1 year ago
Soldier_4Christ
I will accept this in a couple of days if nobody has taken it.
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