The Instigator
Search-The-Scriptures
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Williamson
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Christians/Catholics - The Holy Trinity is a Lie

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/11/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 467 times Debate No: 71522
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Search-The-Scriptures

Pro

Hello all!

I'm hearing many Christians/Catholics talking about this Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity is a made up fantasy, it does not exist in the Scriptures, not only that, it makes no sense. I will prove, using Scripture, that the Holy Trinity is not real, nor is it mentioned in the Bible.

Statues:

1. Opponent must be either a Christian/Catholic

2. Opponent must believe in the Holy Trinity

3. Opponent must stay on topic and no rules can/will be changed

4. Opponent must refute my claims with the Bible only

5. Opponent must give precepts for each verse(s) he/she uses.

Arguments:

R1 - Acceptance and opposing side states opening argument

R2 - Arguments and Refutes

R3 - Arguments and Refutes

R4 - Arguments and Refutes

R5 - Concluding statements
Williamson

Con

Hello Search-The-Scriptures.

I accept your challenge.

I am a Christian.

I believe in the Holy Trinity.

I will stay on topic.

I have bible verses to refute you with.

I am ready.
Debate Round No. 1
Search-The-Scriptures

Pro

I thank CON for accepting.

Holy Trinity: The Christian Godhead as one God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

"The Christian Godhead," which means that this refers to the Christian Doctrine and not to the Scriptures.

The book of Matthew, chapter 1, shows us that Jesus has a genealogy.

Genealogy: a line of descent traced continuously from an ancestor.

Matthew 1:1-16

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Joseph is mentioned in the genealogy of Christ for a reason – Christ came from the seed or sperm of Joseph. If Christ only came through Mary without Joseph, why would it mention Joseph in v16? When someone has a genealogy, it means that they have ancestors, which are genetically related to one another, they come from the same bloodline.

Deuteronomy 18:18: I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

{The Most High God told Moses that HE will raise up a PROPHET (Jesus Christ) from among the Israelites brethren, “, like unto thee” –meaning He is going to come into the world just as Moses did, in the flesh and in order for a person to be born in the flesh they need to be created by sperm and an egg. By this verse it should be acknowledged that Christ was not God because He was a Prophet and God said, “and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.” –so The Most High God of Israel put HIS words in Christ and Christ spoke them.}

Precept

Acts 13:23: Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Hebrews 2:16-17: For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

{Paul is saying that Christ was not formed as an angel, He did not come into the world as an angel. An angel does not need an earthly father and mother to have sex to conceive, they are not made that way. So when v16 says, “For verily he took not on him the nature of angels” it is saying that Christ was not immaculately born. “but he took on him the seed of Abraham.”-He took on him the sperm of Abraham; He came from the seed of Abraham.}

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

{“ to be made like unto his brethren “ –Christ was made like His brethren. What does it take for a woman to conceive? A male’s sperm to fertilize her egg. So Christ came into the world as you and I have, through our parents having sex.}

Romans 1:3: Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

{Christ was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; -meaning Christ came from the sperm of David in the flesh and in order for someone to be born in the flesh they need an earthly father and mother.}

These are a few verses to show that Christ was not immaculately born, and He is not God.

Now I will provide Scripture to show a separation between The Most High and Christ.

Galatians 1:1: Paul, an apostle, not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

{So it says “Jesus Christ, and God the Father” –and meaning that there is a separation and showing two entities. If Jesus Christ was God, v1 would have read, “but by Jesus Christ who is God the Father,”}

Philippians 1:2: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. {Again showing separation between God and the Lord Jesus Christ; showing two separate entities.}

Ephesians 1:20: Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, {Who set Christ? The Most High God of Israel set Christ, Christ didn’t set Himself.}

Precept

Psalms 110:1: The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

{The LORD (God) said unto my Lord (Christ) –David is saying two different Lords here….It’s God and Jesus Christ.} What was David talking about in Psalms 110:1? Let’s get the precept.

1 Corinthians 11:3: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

{So the head of man is Christ; the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God. If Jesus was God, why would God be head of HIMSELF? That makes no sense.}

Matthew 19:17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

{Christ tells the man in v16, “, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:” –if Christ was God, He would have not said what He said in v17. Christ takes all the credit off of himself and said there is only one good, God}

Now I’m going to go to the MOST famous verse Christians use to say that Jesus is God.

John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

{So now, we know that the Word (Christ) was made in the flesh (John 1:14) but if we say Christ is God, then there would be no need for Christ to have a genealogy (Matt 1:1-16), which is also a contradiction to the Bible, and it also takes the power away from the Almighty one, this is why Christians pray directly to Jesus and not The Most High. So let’s get the true understanding of John 1:1.}

Let’s find out what the Word is and what the word “God” really means. God is NOT The Most High’s name. God means powers.

God: divine (1), divine being (1), exceedingly (1), God (2326), god (45), God's (14), goddess (2), godly (1), gods (204), great (2), judges (3), mighty (2), rulers (1), shrine* (1).

Precept – God

Genesis 1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

{So we see that this verse says, “Let US make man in OUR image,” –The “us” and “our” is referring to The Father; Jesus Christ, and the angels. We know Christ was with our Father in heaven according to Psalms 110:1)

Precept – Genesis 1:26

1 King 22:19-20: And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

{The Most High is having counsel with HIS angelic Host…}

V21: And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.

{This proves that The Most High God has counsel just like in Genesis 1:26. So now we see what the word “God” means. Now let’s go back and get the true understanding of John 1:1}

Precept – John 1:1

Isaiah 8:20: To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

{So the “Word” is the Law, Christ is the Law. Now, the ending of Isaiah 8:20 says, “if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” –let’s get a precept for “light in them.”)

Precept – Isaiah 8:20

John 1:4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

{Christ brings life through the keeping of the Laws.}

Precept – life

Baruch 4:1: This is the book of the commandments of God, and the law that endureth for ever: all they that keep it shall come to life; but such as leave it shall die.

Galatians 4:4: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

{Christ was made of a woman, MADE UNDER THE LAW. The Law is the word, according to Isa 8:20. Where in the Law can one find Immaculate Conception? Nowhere.}

John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

{In the beginning was the Word (Christ), and the Word (Christ) was WITH (showing a separation) God (the powers, i.e. the Father and the angels, and the Word (Christ) was God (the powers -1 Kings 22:19-21).}

The Holy Ghost is the Law.

Acts 7:51-53: Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Question to CON: If Jesus was God, why would Satan tempt God into breaking HIS own Laws?

Williamson

Con

Williamson forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Search-The-Scriptures

Pro

My opponent has conceded.

Vote Pro!
Williamson

Con

Williamson forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Search-The-Scriptures

Pro

Search-The-Scriptures forfeited this round.
Williamson

Con

I forfeit. If you read my comment you'll know why. I probably won't be coming back to Debate.org, so bye.
Debate Round No. 4
Search-The-Scriptures

Pro

Search-The-Scriptures forfeited this round.
Williamson

Con

Williamson forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Williamson 2 years ago
Williamson
I'm sorry for not being able to debate. My aunt died and it's been busy lately. I won't be able to visit Debate.org any more. I'm sorry. That's all.
Posted by Search-The-Scriptures 2 years ago
Search-The-Scriptures
Well, it seems that Con is going to forfeit R2. Vote Pro.
Posted by Search-The-Scriptures 2 years ago
Search-The-Scriptures
The Holy Spirit had sex with Mary and impregnated her with Jesus; we no longer have to keep the laws, they are done away with, except for tithing; we can celebrate holidays, we don't have to keep the holydays; homosexuals will go to heaven if they believe Jesus died for their sins; women can wear pants if they want, this is the modern day not the Biblical days; women can be pastors and run a church; women and men are equal; everyone that just believes on Jesus will go to heaven. Christianity is just a huge contradiction and what they teach is a huge contradiction to the Bible. They know some of what the Bible says but they go against it and do what pleases them.
Posted by logicinlife 2 years ago
logicinlife
Funny. What do you observe that is so profound?
Posted by Search-The-Scriptures 2 years ago
Search-The-Scriptures
I wonder how easy it's really going to be, knowing that Christians/Catholics don't know the Scrips.
Posted by logicinlife 2 years ago
logicinlife
Go Con, lol. You got this, should be pretty easy.
No votes have been placed for this debate.