The Instigator
ATRUE-ISRAELITE
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
Valar_Dohaeris
Con (against)
Winning
49 Points

"Christians" - The 10 Commandments are still in effect and must be followed and kept!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 10 votes the winner is...
Valar_Dohaeris
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 1/7/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,460 times Debate No: 67963
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (116)
Votes (10)

 

ATRUE-ISRAELITE

Pro

In the first round CON will simply accept this debate. Only scripture may be utilized, since your personal thoughts, beliefe, etc... have nothing to do with the Bible. Also, you must be a Christian, as the subject matter itself includes "Christians."
Debate Round No. 1
ATRUE-ISRAELITE

Pro

Churches across the world teach that YAHUAH’s Ten Commandments were abolished - nailed to the cross with The Messiah, YAHUSHUAH, and that they are no longer required to be kept under the New Covenant. Is this what YAHUSHUAH and His Apostles taught? Did they continue to teach and observe the commandments? What does the Bible say?

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. - 1 John 5:3

In Matthew 5:17, The Messiah says, “Thinke not that I am come to destroy the lawe or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” So why is that people think that the laws are done away with? YAHUSHUAH clearly advised us NOT TO EVEN THINK THIS, yet Bible scholars and ministers GO AGAINST the teaching of The Messiah, and teach that we do not have to keep The Most High’s laws. We are clearly warned of these false teachers by Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 – “For suh are false Apostles, deceitfull workers, transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ. V14 And no marveile, for Sathn himself is transformed into an Angel of light. V15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also bee transformed as the ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works.” Satan's ministers pawn themselves off as The Messiah’s ministers and Satan makes himself out to be YAHUSHUAH!

Apostle John taught throughout his writings that the law is still to be observed by YAHUAH’s people. In John 5:14 & 8:11 The Messiah told people to "sin no more". WHAT IS SIN? I Jn 3:4 states, "for sinne is the transgression of the law". SIN IS THE BREAKING OF The Most High’s COMMANDMENTS! YAHUSHUAH said not to break them anymore! John clearly states that we don't even know The Messiah IF WE DON’T keep the commandments (I Jn 2:3-6). He continued to show that we are to keep the commandments in the book of Revelation. Rev 12:17 says, “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Now read Rev 14:12, " Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” Rev 22:14 states: "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

What about the apostle Paul? False teachers take Paul's writings out of context to say that the Law is done away with. The apostle Peter gave warning of this in 2 Peter 3:15-16. Paul himself kept the law and declared, "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good". He wrote to the Romans saying “For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified" (Rom 2:13). Concerning the GRACE of The Most High that we are under, he asked, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” V2-“ God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Rom 6:1-2). And concerning Law and Faith he asks, " Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” (Rom 3:31)

These are simply a few of the countless Scriptures, which show the Truth of Law keeping for “Christians.” Let's now view the New Covenant and make a list of the Ten Commandments as they appear throughout it. I’ll list each of the commandments as they appear in Exodus 20 first, followed by their New Covenant counterparts.

1st Commandment OC: “ I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.V3 -Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Ex 20:2-3)

1st Commandment NC: "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve” (Matt 4:10/ Luke 4:8).

2nd Commandment OC: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or thatisin the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous GOD, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fouth generation of them that hate Me; And shewing mercy unto thousands who love Me, and keep my commandments." (Ex 20:4-6)

2nd Commandment NC: "But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols . . . "(Acts15:20) "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor 6:9,10) "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." (Eph 5:5)

3rd Commandment OC: "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain." (Ex 20:7)

3rd Commandment NC: "I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." (Mt 12:36) "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."(Mt 15:8,9) "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Mt 23:9) " …that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed." (1Tim 6:1)

4th Commandment OC: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh dayisthe Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in themis, and rested the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." (Ex 20:8-11)

4th Commandment NC: "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." (Mt12:8/Lk 6:5) " . . . it is lawful to do well on thesabbathdays." (Mt12:12) "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day."(Mt 24:20) " . . . they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught." (Mk1:21) "And he said unto them, Thesabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." (Mk 2:27-28)

5th Commandment OC: "Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee." (Ex 20:12)

5th Commandment NC: " . . . Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying,Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Mt15:3-4/Mk 7:10) "Honour thy father and thy mother . . . " (Mt 19:19/Mk 10:19/Lk18:20)

6th Commandment OC: "Thou shalt not kill.” (Ex 20:13)

6th Commandment NC: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment." (Mt 5:21-22 - see 1Jn 2:9) " . . . Do not kill . . ." (Mk 10:19)

7th Commandment OC: "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Ex 20:14)

7th Commandment NC: "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Mt 5:27-28) "I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." (Mt 5:32) "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery . . ." (Mt 19:18/Mk 10:19/Lk 18:20)

8th Commandment OC: "Thou shalt not steal." (Ex 20:15)

8th Commandment NC: "Thou shalt not steal . . " (Mt 19:18/Rom 13:9) "Do not steal . . . " (Mk 10:19/Lk 18:20) " . . . thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor 6:10) "Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth." (Eph 4:28) "Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts." (Rev 9:21)

9th Commandment OC: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." (Ex 20:16)

9th Commandment NC: " . . . every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." (Mt 12:36-37) "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man." (Mt 15:19-20) " . . . Thou shalt not bear false witness . . ." (Mt 19:18/Rom 13:9) " . . .Do not bear false witness . . . " (Mk10:19/Lk 18:20)

10th Commandment OT: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is thy neighbour's." (Ex 20:17)

10th Commandment NT: "And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." (Lk 12:15) "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." (Rom 7:7)" . . . Thou shalt not covet . . . " (Rom 13:9)

Valar_Dohaeris

Con

Pro just posts the 10 commandments and says they must be followed. There are fundamental issues with this argument because it makes a great many assumptions. Pro never gives any reasons that we should follow the 10 commandments other than God says so. His entire round is just elaborating on that.

This is his BOP

1) Existence

For pros case to be true, he must first establish that God exists. God has to exist in order for his logic to follow through. He is basically saying everything God says is good, so therefore we must follow everything God says. God has to exist for this to be true. It's his BOP to show that.

2) Authority

Pro must show that God is the sole source of authority on earth. So even if he establishes that God exists, he must show that the dilemma he invoked is in fact true. Everything God says must be good or there is no reason to believe that we must follow the 10 commandments.

Case )

There is no reason to follow the 10 commandments. I can upgrade the 10 commandments and expound on them and also improve them. Why would I follow 10 commandments from a book that is not historically accurate. Pro has given me no reason to believe that I must follow them.

C) For pro to win this debate he must back up his own logic. He must first show that God exists, and then he must show that everything God says is correct as that is what his case hinges off of. His case is below in a nutshell

1) Everything God commands we should follow
2) God wrote the 10 commandments
c) We should follow the 10 commandments because God commanded them.

AS I said he must first establish that God in fact exists and that everything God says is true or his case is invalid. He will not uphold his BOP or affirm the resolution at hand.

He basically made an entire argument off assumptions without laying the groundwork for it.
Debate Round No. 2
ATRUE-ISRAELITE

Pro

Again, it is obvious that CON cannot read. The description of the subject matter is: "Christians" - The 10 Commandments are still in effect and must be followed and kept! The key word "CHRISTIANS" if you are not a Christian, there is no need for you to be arguing something you do not believe in because no matter what you will never belive until the day The Messiah returns. So please, read the topic of the debate before you accept!
Valar_Dohaeris

Con

Negation - I un affirm my own subjective argument as he properly refuted it ( I actually thought he would not). The title of the debate does specific that this is in reference to the Christian God, the Title does not state we are debating under the pretense that the Christian God exists nor did it prohibit a non christian from posting. I am actually a Catholic so I meet these standards either way

Basically he drops all of my points. For this stance to be true he must first show that God does exist, and that God is the ultimate authority. Operating under the assumption it is the Christian God does not change that. Since he failed to uphold his burden and there are no new arguments in the last round, the resolution can not be affirmed. He is assuming God is prima facie true without explaining why, or laying it out in his opening round. Thus there is nothing affirming the resolution as he only making assumptions with no foundation

Vote con
Debate Round No. 3
116 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ACHOSEN1 2 years ago
ACHOSEN1
What in the world are you all talking about? How do I have an alternate account? You all are making yourselves look like straight fools right now making false accusations.
Posted by Valar_Dohaeris 2 years ago
Valar_Dohaeris
Don't accuse people of being multis, just report them to max :)
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
@SNP1
Yes, but it's more fun to force such a tool to actually get his logins straight when attempting voter manipulation.
Posted by SNP1 2 years ago
SNP1
Ragnar: ACHOSEN1 is an alt. ATURE-ISREALITE has no one that agrees with him, so he has to make alts to do so.
Posted by ACHOSEN1 2 years ago
ACHOSEN1
@Ragnar

I saw your previous post and seems to me you can't answer my question(s)!
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
See previous post.
Posted by ACHOSEN1 2 years ago
ACHOSEN1
@Ragnar

Okay and?
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
@ACHOSEN1
The conversation I'm having is with ATRUE-ISRAELITE, who can speak for himself or herself.
Posted by ACHOSEN1 2 years ago
ACHOSEN1
@Ragnar

Actually, Catholics are Catholics and Christians are Christians. If Catholics are in fact Christians, then why are they two different religions? If Catholics are in fact Christians then why do they have different doctrine than Christians? Have you ever been to a Catholic Church? Are you a Catholic because you don't sound like one! Catholics worship the mother of "Jesus." If you've ever been to a Catholic Church you would acknowledge there windows with the virgin mary painted all over them and statues of the virgin mary as well. So if Catholics are Christians, why are there two different names for the same religion?
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
@pro
To answer your question... in short... Christians/Catholics believe in a collection of holy-books called the Bible, divided into two testaments. They believe in their messiah Jesus Christ, the son of God, who was born of the virgin Mary, and died on the cross. It is through belief in Jesus Christ as messiah and adherence to his teachings, that they are differentiated from Judaism (very similar religion, but their messiah has yet to come). Catholics are a branch of Christianity with a central church authority, rather than a thousand or more autonomous splinter sects. Interestingly enough the way they are branched you can find a Christian who is not a Catholic, but never a Catholic who isn't a Christian.
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by SNP1 2 years ago
SNP1
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: While Con's conduct is questionable (I do not think there is something wrong since he only refuted with logic), he successfully refuted Pro's points. Pro did not refute any of Con's points. It is a clear win for Con.
Vote Placed by tonyrobinson 2 years ago
tonyrobinson
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Con had a straw man argument, rather than accept the obviously assumed predisposed conditions as set out in the title.
Vote Placed by Tweka 2 years ago
Tweka
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Con is trolling( upgrading the 10 commandments) and yet can rebut Pro's argument. Firstly, Pro did not show that God exists and the 10 commandments are true. In order for Pro to win this he must show that it is reasonable to follow the 10 commandments.
Vote Placed by Codedlogic 2 years ago
Codedlogic
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Pro failed to address Con's position that Pro must first demonstrate everything God says is true before Pro can make an appeal to authority. Cons questioning of the existence of God is consistent with being a Christian (many Christians question whether or not God exists). Pro also failed to show Con was not a Christian.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Christians can and should question the bible, as PRO ASKED CON TO DO. I disagree that pro had to prove god exists, but proving some benefit to following those ten rules would have helped greatly to proving that they MUST BE FOLLOWED AND KEPT. Instead pro committed Ad Hominem attacks based on the assumption without proof that con is not a True Scotsman, dropping the entire case. Formatting for what is quoted material also would have been great.
Vote Placed by BDPershing 2 years ago
BDPershing
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Agnostic, no evidence to support pro's claims, the 10 commandments aren't from god directly, therefor are subject to human intervention by false statements or strait up lying. therefor making all words in the 10 commandments questionable.
Vote Placed by FaustianJustice 2 years ago
FaustianJustice
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Con denied the terms of the debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Round one CLEARLY states you must be Christian to accept the debate. Con accepted, then questioned the existence of God. This shows Con violated the rules of the debate So Pro wins because Con broke the rules.
Vote Placed by Commondebator 2 years ago
Commondebator
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Con rebutted many points of Pro. However, the main reason for the vote is that Pro was an absolute jerk. Pro insulted Con saying that "he could not read". Furthermore he only made this debate only to christians and later dropped his arguments. That is b.s and irrelevant. I hope pro has better sportsmanship in her following debates.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
ATRUE-ISRAELITEValar_Dohaeris
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: This was an interesting debate to read. In essence, Pro argues through biblical text that the Christian law still stands and is in effect even today. Con completely attacked every preliminary assumption that could be make before one leaps to discussing about christian law. He claimed Pro needed to give a proof of God and also prove that such law is above all else. Instead of Pro doing so, he berated Con for misunderstanding the purpose of this debate. I can completely empathize, as it does seem like an unfair burden placed on Pro, and was probably unexpected as well. Pro raised the argument that he should have to prove such things because this debate was meant for Christians in the first place. Con then claims to be catholic, and therefore meets the standards. All in all, Con won due to Pro being unable to affirm the resolution by upholding the burden placed on him by Con. This is a win for Con.