The Instigator
telisw37
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
OtakuJordan
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

Christians who accept evolution are in error! According to the bible alone!

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
OtakuJordan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,135 times Debate No: 49729
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (3)

 

telisw37

Pro

God created the races that exist today! Evolution is lie!
OtakuJordan

Con

I accept Pro's challenge.

In order to win this debate, Pro must prove that interpreting Genesis as a metaphor is contrary to the principles of sound hermaneutics and exegesis or that such an interpretation somehow contradicts an essential doctrine of the Christian faith.
Debate Round No. 1
telisw37

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate. No I refute your rules pertaining to Genesis as a metaphor! Because it is a parable or a figure of speech. God Himself speaks in parables. Not hermaneutics and exegisis terms. I stand on the fact that according to the bible Christians are in error.
Notice what the bible itself says not hermaneutics!
Eze_20:49, Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?
Mat_13:3, And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
Mat_13:10, And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat_13:13, Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat_13:34, All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mat_13:35, That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Mat_13:53, And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence.
Mat_21:45, And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat_22:1, And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
Mar_3:23, And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mar_4:2, And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,
Mar_4:11, And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar_4:13, And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
Mar_4:33, And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.
Mar_12:1, And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
Luk_8:10, And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

I guess, that the truth can not win against rules created to hide the truth of the bible because that is all Christians do.
Because Jesus Christ was is a Jew and so was His disciples who kept Jewish customs not Christian lies.
But I choose to debate anyway!
OtakuJordan

Con

A parable is an allegory,[1] a fictional story used to convey a real truth in simpler terms. If my opponent wishes to insist that Genesis is a parable then he should have no problem accepting the idea of theistic evolution as perfectly plausible and legitimate.

Sources
1. http://dictionary.reference.com...
Debate Round No. 2
telisw37

Pro

Well I am not God nor did I write the bible.
My opponent errors again. Or deny's the fact that Christ came in the flesh = through the actual flesh = a member of the actual bloodline of David. 1Ch_1:1, Adam, Sheth, Enosh, 1Ch_1:2, Kenan, Mahalaleel, Jered, 1Ch_1:3, Henoch, Methuselah, Lamech, 1Ch_1:4, Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. 1Ch_1:5, The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. Luk_3:38, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. Luk_20:41, And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son? Luk_20:42, And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Luk_20:43, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. Luk_20:44, David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son? Luk_20:45, Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples, Luk_20:46, Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts; Luk_20:47, Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation. That started with Adam.
They educate=brainwash themselves to teach their children to lie and serve rabbits laying colored eggs. Profaning the Passover in the name of hermanutic rules. Much like lies from a horny Pope, why just paid billions.
When Pope gave up women=wifes was this ok with hermanutic rules?
However Adam was clearly the beginning of the Jewish race. I Again refute using the bible alone any form of evolution. The races were created in Gen.1:26 and were finished Gen2:1 Hermanutic lies say different! I clearly said the bible alone. No other book! Gen_1:26, And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Gen_1:27, So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen_1:28, And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen_1:29, And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Gen_1:30, And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Gen_1:31, And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Adam was formed later! Point #1 on why Christians error! Gen_2:1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen_2:2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen_2:3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Gen_2:4, These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, Gen_2:5, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. Gen_2:6, But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. Gen_2:7, And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Gen_2:8, And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Christianity is full of errors! They educate people to say Sunday when God never ever changed the 7th=Sabbath Day! The Hermanutic Jesus my opponent served changed His special Holy Day! Mat_12:8, For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. Mar_2:28, Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Luk_6:5, And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. My opponent's Jesus is not the God of the Old Testament! I ask my opponent is this his Jesus too? Isa_43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isa_43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Remember who was formed and not created!
OtakuJordan

Con

Thank you for your rebuttal. I shall respond line by line.

"My opponent errors again. Or deny's the fact that Christ came in the flesh = through the actual flesh = a member of the actual bloodline of David."

One need not believe in a literal Adam to believe in a literal David.

"1Ch_1:1, Adam, Sheth, Enosh, 1Ch_1:2, Kenan, Mahalaleel, Jered, 1Ch_1:3, Henoch, Methuselah, Lamech, 1Ch_1:4, Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. 1Ch_1:5, The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. Luk_3:38, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

"Adam" represents, to those who believe in theistic evolution, the progenitors of humanity. My opponent has not shown why this is not a valid interpretation.

"They educate=brainwash themselves to teach their children to lie and serve rabbits laying colored eggs. Profaning the Passover in the name of hermanutic rules. Much like lies from a horny Pope, why just paid billions.
When Pope gave up women=wifes was this ok with hermanutic rules?"

Neither Easter or the papacy are relevant to this debate and I have not disclosed my beliefs on either subject.

"However Adam was clearly the beginning of the Jewish race."

Again, "Adam" represents the original humans.

"Again refute using the bible alone any form of evolution. The races were created in Gen.1:26 and were finished Gen2:1 Hermanutic lies say different! I clearly said the bible alone. No other book!"

My opponent seems to be confused as to what hermaneutics are. Hermaneutics is simply the interpretation of biblical texts. My opponent is practicing hermaneutics just as much as I am, whether he realizes it or not.

"Gen_1:26, And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [...] Gen_2:8, And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."

My opponent here quotes the Genesis creation story for no apparent reason.

"Christianity is full of errors! They educate people to say Sunday when God never ever changed the 7th=Sabbath Day! The Hermanutic Jesus my opponent served changed His special Holy Day! Mat_12:8, For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. Mar_2:28, Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Luk_6:5, And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. My opponent's Jesus is not the God of the Old Testament! I ask my opponent is this his Jesus too? Isa_43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isa_43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. Remember who was formed and not created!"

Pro closes his argument by attacking those who worship on Sunday. Once again, I have not disclosed my views on this issue and they are irrelevant to the debate topic.

I would like to close this round by reminding Pro and the voters that he carries the burden of proof.
Debate Round No. 3
telisw37

Pro

1.Well I will address my opponents false statement concerning Adam not being an actual human being. According to the bible itself anyone who deny's that Christ's really existed is Antichrist and not following the bible or the God there in/of.
1 John 4:3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2. I refute my opponents false statement that David did not exist. If Christian's have no need to believe in the reality of Christ or King David as a real man then, Christians are serving and worshiping Mother Goose or Santa Clause. I agree with my opponent on his point that the Christian religion has made a mockery of Jesus Christ. The only things Christians have in common with the God of the bible is, they stole His name.




3. I will remind my opponent that I clearly said according the bible itself. My opponent asserted that the bible is a fictional story. So anyone who is a part of Christianity worships a fictional fake? Actually if Adam did not really exist nor did David means Abraham was a myth as well. And out of the fake Christian myth came real Judaism and their arch enenmy Islam. The cause of real wars. Is my opponent claim Abraham and all associated with him is myth as well? I am asking my opponent to tell us, according to their religion when did the real men enter reality?


4. The fact that secular history and even Islam claims Adam and David existed. I ask my oppenent who is that naked stone image of a man in front of a lot of musems. Was this a different King David who's actual real son Solomon built the real stone Wailing Wall?


Archaeological Evidence that King David Existed

http://unsettledchristianity.com...

5. My opponent's assertions actually that, if accepted and not challenged. Then foolish sheep will walk right off a cliff at the command of the false Christian. You mentioned The Fake Christian Holiday called Easter=East'ar a ritual that was called the Jewish Kosher Passover is now where people roll colored eggs laid by a magic rabbit and eat Easter Hogs teaching little children ignore God's Sabbath orders. Who is able to change God's orders, and who is foolish enough to follow them paying 10% for a fictonal metphore. I say that is not logical or smart. Or just plain being sottish.

2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of theLord;

3 Thus saith the Lord God; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the Lord.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and theLord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The Lord saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

6. I will correct my opponent's false statement saying:
" My opponent seems to be confused as to what hermaneutics are. Hermaneutics is simply the interpretation of biblical texts. My opponent is practicing hermaneutics just as much as I am, whether he realizes it or not."
When I do not accept nor agree so, for a true believer hermaneutics is a way to interprete the bible so the false relgious right can agree and not destory each other. When did God or Jesus tell you to listen to man? I trust God! My opponent trust a papal cap wearing Pope!

Isa_45:19, I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. 
Amo_5:4, For thus saith the LORD unto the house of Israel, Seek ye me, and ye shall live:

I ask my opponent did Mary really exist in his Christian religion?

Was anything in the bible real? Maybe My opponent deny's the Cross and that Christ actually rose from the dead, because metaphores can not exist in the flesh!

Was Christ born via virgin? From a woman not of the line of David (Remember he never existed!) who was of the line of Abraham and Adam that was a metaphore and never really existed on earth.

Finally is any of what my opponent claims is actually in Christian Doctrine? If so how? And why would a "Christian accept Darwin?" Yet deny very bible that they babble from! Is my opponent saying, Jesus called Darwin to explain creation?
Is John a liar? My job is to prove that YOU CHRISTIANS ARE IN ERROR ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE ALONE! NOT DISPROVE EVOULTION!
I BEG TO DIFFER!!!!!

" Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


I Christ a liar too?

 Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


Son of David is not fiction! My opponent errors bigtime!

  son of david
(Found 24 times in 23 verses)
Pro_1:1, The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
 Ecc_1:1, The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem. 
Mat_1:1, The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Mat_1:20, But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat_9:27, And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us.
Mat_12:23, And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
Mat_15:22, And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat_20:30, And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.
Mat_20:31, And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.
Mat_21:9, And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
Mat_21:15, And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,
Mar_10:47, And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out, and say, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
Mar_10:48, And many charged him that he should hold his peace: but he cried the more a great deal, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
Mar_12:35, And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
Luk_18:38, And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
Luk_18:39, And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.




OtakuJordan

Con

"Well I will address my opponents false statement concerning Adam not being an actual human being. According to the bible itself anyone who deny's that Christ's really existed is Antichrist and not following the bible or the God there in/of.
1 John 4:3

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

This might be relevant if Adam were Christ, but he was not.

"I refute my opponents false statement that David did not exist. If Christian's have no need to believe in the reality of Christ or King David as a real man then, Christians are serving and worshiping Mother Goose or Santa Clause. I agree with my opponent on his point that the Christian religion has made a mockery of Jesus Christ. The only things Christians have in common with the God of the bible is, they stole His name."

I did not say that David did not exist. To the contrary, I said that he did.

"I will remind my opponent that I clearly said according the bible itself. My opponent asserted that the bible is a fictional story."

I made no such claim. I certainly never referred to what I regard as the inspiration to my life as "a fictional story." Rather, I believe certain elements of the Bible to be metaphorical or allegorical, as do all believers. I doubt my opponent believes that there were literal rivers of milk and honey flowing through Canaan, despite God using such verbal imagery in the Old Testament to describe the location.

"Actually if Adam did not really exist nor did David means Abraham was a myth as well."

To clarify again, I never said that David did not exist. Also, viewing one biblical character as metaphorical does not necessisitate viewing other characters as such.

"And out of the fake Christian myth came real Judaism and their arch enenmy Islam. The cause of real wars."

This is neither accurate nor relevant.

"My opponent's assertions actually that, if accepted and not challenged. Then foolish sheep will walk right off a cliff at the command of the false Christian. You mentioned The Fake Christian Holiday called Easter=East'ar a ritual that was called the Jewish Kosher Passover is now where people roll colored eggs laid by a magic rabbit and eat Easter Hogs teaching little children ignore God's Sabbath orders. Who is able to change God's orders, and who is foolish enough to follow them paying 10% for a fictonal metphore. I say that is not logical or smart. Or just plain being sottish."

Once again, the celebration of Easter has nothing to do with this debate and my views on the topic are undisclosed.

"When I do not accept nor agree so, for a true believer hermaneutics is a way to interprete the bible so the false relgious right can agree and not destory each other. When did God or Jesus tell you to listen to man? I trust God! My opponent trust a papal cap wearing Pope!"

Actually, I'm Protestant, so no, I don't "trust a papal cap wearing Pope." But, like so many of my opponent's points, whether I am Catholic or Protestant is irrelevant to this debate.

"I ask my opponent did Mary really exist in his Christian religion? Was anything in the bible real? Maybe My opponent deny's the Cross and that Christ actually rose from the dead, because metaphores can not exist in the flesh! Was Christ born via virgin? From a woman not of the line of David (Remember he never existed!) who was of the line of Abraham and Adam that was a metaphore and never really existed on earth."

*sigh* Yes, Mary existed. Yes, many accounts in the Bible are literal and historical. No, I don't interpret the resurrection story as metaphor. And, once again, I never said that David did not exist.

"Finally is any of what my opponent claims is actually in Christian Doctrine? If so how? And why would a "Christian accept Darwin?" Yet deny very bible that they babble from! Is my opponent saying, Jesus called Darwin to explain creation? Is John a liar? My job is to prove that YOU CHRISTIANS ARE IN ERROR ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE ALONE! NOT DISPROVE EVOULTION! I BEG TO DIFFER!!!!!

' Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.'"

Theistic evolution does not contradict John 1:1. I believe that Christ is the designer and creator of the universe, but that he created said universe through the process of guided evolution.

My opponent has yet to raise any contradiction between theistic evolution and Scripture.

Debate Round No. 4
telisw37

Pro

1.Well I will address my opponents false statement about Adam was not literal, or did he say allegory? Please clarify what was literal, and when, and at what point, did the bloodline of Adam stop being a metaphor? When, at what point did a actual, factual, real detailed "live birth" record umbilical (flesh) cord to umbilical (flesh) cord. That leads from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Virgin Mary to Jesus Christ. My opponent's religion ignores the 300+ prophecies concerning Jesus. He had to be a first born of a pure daughter of a direct descendant of Eve. My opponent said The first Adam was not God in flesh just as Jesus was is God in flesh. Yet the entire world wants the world to be restored to the time of Eden. Duh? Who was in charge of Eden? Adam.
My opponent denies any part of the bible that exposes his false religion. My opponent claims that St.Luke and St.John are liars!

Luk_3:38, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

My opponent said Adam is not relevant? I ask my opponnet is he an expert in what parts of God Word,is relevant, or which part, to throw out, change or ignore?

My opponent quoted :
" To clarify again, I never said that David did not exist. Also, viewing one biblical character as metaphorical does not necessisitate viewing other characters as such.")

So I ask my opponent how did his religion decide which is metaphorical? Please explain how a metaphore BEGAT King David that really existed? Anyone trusting a person Protestant religious teaching is not a wise person. Did God's Word change? Or did the god of your Prostant faith change? Is your god two-faced or does he straight up just lie?

Mat_5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mal_3:6, For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Mal_3:7, Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

I refute my opponent's assertion that Passover being changed to East'ar (A PAGAN RITUAL) is not relevalent to this debate.
Example: If a lawyer catches a witness on the stand lying, the evidence is not creditable. And and be thrown out by the judge, and the judge may order the jury to vote ignoring that witness who lied.

This debate is about evolution and the bible, and the errors of Christians who carry a bible yet choose to babble on in ignorance!

My opponent claims to serve the Prostestant god, and not a Pope! I ask my opponent does he understand who Martin Luther was? And the fact that the early Protestant Church fathers wore caps! I can inform my opponent that Protestant fatih came right out of the Catholic religion.
My opponent posted:
"Actually, I'm Protestant, so no, I don't "trust a papal cap wearing Pope." But, like so many of my opponent's points, whether I am Catholic or Protestant is irrelevant to this debate."

I ask my opponent to explain what is that item on Martin Luther's head? Was he not a priest?

https://www.google.com...




He even wore a hat when he left his papal duties!
Now I assert that my opponent's witness is not true or creditable, and he seems to make up (Lie?) as he goes? For the record I am not intersted his which branch out of the 1000's of different types/demonations/franchises of Christian religions who carry bibles, to give the pretene that they are bible based, however my opponent just proved, that Protestants only babble like the rest!

For the record: nor did I ask which religious franchise he is a member of! I boldly stated that according to the bible Christ is, was, always will be Lord of the Sabbath! Christians are in error!!!! That is what the debate is about!

  Lev_16:31, It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever. 
Lev_19:3, Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.
Lev_19:30, Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
Lev_23:3, Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev_23:11, And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.
Lev_23:15, And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev_23:16, Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Lev_23:24, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
Lev_23:32, It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Lev_23:38, Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
Lev_23:39, Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
Lev_24:8, Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.



In regards to Mary in your closing statement please educate (LOL) me which one of the flesh (BEGETEN/SPERM/BY SEX!!!!!!!!!!!) men in Virgin Mary's, Adam's, David's (OR CAIN'S WHO KILLED ABLE!!!!) birth record was also a myth, allegory, parable, metaphore or figure of speech.
Next I must close with asking which body part (Not the brain for sure!) did my opponent pull Theistic Evolution out of?????????
Did Darwin the Atheist repent, and get saved and was called by God to teach the gospel by teaching Protestant Christians that men evolved from maggots to monkeys?
Making the Creator God a liar who claimed to have created KIND AFTER KIND!!! So why God need Noah? At what point/on what day in Genesis in Theistic Evolution did maggots turn to men? Educate us all! Thank you for this debate!



OtakuJordan

Con

"Well I will address my opponents false statement about Adam was not literal, or did he say allegory? Please clarify what was literal, and when, and at what point, did the bloodline of Adam stop being a metaphor? When, at what point did a actual, factual, real detailed 'live birth' record umbilical (flesh) cord to umbilical (flesh) cord. That leads from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Virgin Mary to Jesus Christ."

I admit that I do not know at exactly which point the Genesis account transitions from metaphor (or parable, if you will) to historical narrative. This is, however, irrelevant to the debate at hand.

Might I also point out that theistic evolution does not preclude the existence of a flesh and blood couple named Adam and Eve at some point in history.

"My opponent's religion ignores the 300+ prophecies concerning Jesus. He had to be a first born of a pure daughter of a direct descendant of Eve."

I am unaware of any messianic prophecies that allude to Eve. However, even if such prophecies exist, this does not serve as evidence that a literal Eve existed. One can reference a fictional character to make a point without believing that that fictional character exists.

"My opponent said The first Adam was not God in flesh just as Jesus was is God in flesh. Yet the entire world wants the world to be restored to the time of Eden. Duh? Who was in charge of Eden? Adam."

I am not entirely sure what you are trying to say here.

"My opponent denies any part of the bible that exposes his false religion."

A more accurate statement might be that I interpret certain parts of the Bible differently from you.

"My opponent claims that St.Luke and St.John are liars!

Luk_3:38, Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

I made no such claim. And again, one can reference a fictional character without believing in that character's existence.

"My opponent said Adam is not relevant? I ask my opponnet is he an expert in what parts of God Word,is relevant, or which part, to throw out, change or ignore?"

At no point did I label Adam as irrelevant or call for throwing out or changing or ignoring certain parts of the Bible.

"My opponent quoted :
' To clarify again, I never said that David did not exist. Also, viewing one biblical character as metaphorical does not necessisitate viewing other characters as such.')

So I ask my opponent how did his religion decide which is metaphorical? Please explain how a metaphore BEGAT King David that really existed?"

Adam represents the progenitors of humanity. The original human beings gave birth to the line that led to David.

"Anyone trusting a person Protestant religious teaching is not a wise person. Did God's Word change? Or did the god of your Prostant faith change? Is your god two-faced or does he straight up just lie?"

Umm... what?

"I refute my opponent's assertion that Passover being changed to East'ar (A PAGAN RITUAL) is not relevalent to this debate.
Example: If a lawyer catches a witness on the stand lying, the evidence is not creditable. And and be thrown out by the judge, and the judge may order the jury to vote ignoring that witness who lied."

Whether or not Christians should celebrate Easter is a separate topic of discussion, and one that I have not disclosed my beliefs on. I can't be convicted for "perjury" if I have said nothing.

"This debate is about evolution and the bible, and the errors of Christians who carry a bible yet choose to babble on in ignorance!"

Glad we're back on track.

"My opponent claims to serve the Prostestant god, and not a Pope! I ask my opponent does he understand who Martin Luther was? And the fact that the early Protestant Church fathers wore caps! I can inform my opponent that Protestant fatih came right out of the Catholic religion."

Or maybe not.

The Protestant church fathers wore caps. Okay. What's your point? There is no biblical proscription against male head coverings that I am aware of, so I am unsure what your complaint is.

Also, I am well aware that Protestantism emerged from Catholicism. That is why it is called "Protestantism."

"My opponent posted:
'Actually, I'm Protestant, so no, I don't "trust a papal cap wearing Pope.' But, like so many of my opponent's points, whether I am Catholic or Protestant is irrelevant to this debate.'

I ask my opponent to explain what is that item on Martin Luther's head?"

You caught me red-handed. Protestantism must be a lie of the devil. Lol.

"Was he not a priest?"

No, actually he was one of the creators of the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers, meaning that Christians have no need for priests.

"He even wore a hat when he left his papal duties!
Now I assert that my opponent's witness is not true or creditable, and he seems to make up (Lie?) as he goes? For the record I am not intersted his which branch out of the 1000's of different types/demonations/franchises of Christian religions who carry bibles, to give the pretene that they are bible based, however my opponent just proved, that Protestants only babble like the rest!"

My opponent does not seem to realize that his views are in that group.

"For the record: nor did I ask which religious franchise he is a member of! I boldly stated that according to the bible Christ is, was, always will be Lord of the Sabbath!"

Correct on both counts. You began attacking me without asking which denomination I belong to and Christ will always be Lord of the Sabbath.

"In regards to Mary in your closing statement please educate (LOL) me which one of the flesh (BEGETEN/SPERM/BY SEX!!!!!!!!!!!) men in Virgin Mary's, Adam's, David's (OR CAIN'S WHO KILLED ABLE!!!!) birth record was also a myth, allegory, parable, metaphore or figure of speech."

See my reply to your question about David's lineage.

"Next I must close with asking which body part (Not the brain for sure!) did my opponent pull Theistic Evolution out of?????????"

Actually, I rather doubt that that was necessary. Also, I must point out that I did not create the doctrine of theistic evolution and so can't claim credit for pulling it out of anywhere.

"Did Darwin the Atheist repent, and get saved and was called by God to teach the gospel by teaching Protestant Christians that men evolved from maggots to monkeys?"

At no point in his life was Charles Darwin an atheist.[1]

"Making the Creator God a liar who claimed to have created KIND AFTER KIND!!! So why God need Noah? At what point/on what day in Genesis in Theistic Evolution did maggots turn to men? Educate us all!"

I do not believe that God lied. I believe that you interpreted his words poorly.

"Thank you for this debate!"

Umm... you're welcome?

In conclusion, I would like to remind the audience that my opponent carried the burden of proof and failed to fulfill it.

Sources
1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
Actually if my message was accpted like Protestant Traditions they could not be the same message Peter, Paul, and Jesus preached. 99.9% of Christians serve Satan on sun god Sunday. Fact! This debate proves they got no answers about the book they babble about.
The man said a flesh man David who was a Jew came from a metaphore. Wow! Sottish!
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
Actually I said in the debate that the bible is ignored and God People are Sottish = Stupid.
Anyone that stands on traditions of men that defy they bible they babble from.
The reason the bible is tough for voters is they think Adam was is the only flesh man in David's literal birth record was a metaphore. Christ had to be pure Jew. A pure Jew can not come from a gentile.12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
I beg to differ 14nguyenjj1 . Post/debate not about the reality of Jesus. Read the title and try again. I only need rip apart any Christian arguement babbling against Christ the Creator.
Posted by 14nguyenjj1 3 years ago
14nguyenjj1
telisw37
You have not ascertained that Jesus has existed yet.... Stating various quotations does not mean a thing when you have no way too verify if the Bible is the word of God. Regardless, even if we do not take into account your apparent confusion on various nomenclature and assume that God (and thus Jesus) exists, why then is evolution false? A possible argument would be that God created mankind through the use of evolution, and the days that are referred to in Genesis are merely "periods of time" in the original Hebrew /Aramaic/ Greek. Belief in evolution is not referred to at any point within the Bible, and there is no evidence that you could possibly propose that would countermand this. Also, you have stated on numerous occasions that the bible is a parable and is not a metaphor? You should probably be able to define words before you use them... If you think the bible is taken literally, there is no possible reference to evolution (this was more than 2000 years ago). If it is taken metaphorically, you could use exegetical analysis to proclaim that evolution is the correct interpretation.

P.S. Education wasn't, isn't, and never will be one of the Four Horsemen
Posted by lolzors93 3 years ago
lolzors93
The first Adam was Adam. The second, and last, Adam is Christ. But even if the incarnate Christ were the first Adam, it would have no bearing on whether evolution were true or not.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
proof for evolution actually exists in our natural world not just in the mind of delusional people who cling to obsolete beliefs that have been proven wrong every day we live!
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
btw random arbitrary verses only proves the abstract nature of the bible. It is not evidence for anything.. If you truly believe as you say you do.. You better start stoning people... also sell everything you have.. abandon your family and friends.. spend your entire life praying because it is all you can do to remain "clean" without begging for a stone to be thrown your direction!
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
keep repeating the word sottish. it doesn't make you look like a lunatic at all!
Posted by telisw37 3 years ago
telisw37
Are you sottish?
Sottish means stupid! If the incarnate God Jesus Christ existed the evolution is a lie!
Joh_1:1, In the beginning was the Word, (The 1st Adam=Christ not virgin born yet!) and the Word (The 1st Adam=Christ not virgin born yet!)was with God, and the Word was God. (The 1st Adam=Christ not virgin born yet!)
Joh_1:2, The same was in the beginning with God. (The 1st Adam=Christ not virgin born yet!)
Joh_1:3, All things were made by him;(The 1st Adam=Christ not virgin born yet!) and without him was not any thing made that was made. (The 1st Adam=Christ not virgin born yet!)
Joh_1:4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (The 1st Adam=Christ not virgin born yet!)
Joh_1:5, And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jer_4:22, For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
Westborough is at it again!
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by zmikecuber 3 years ago
zmikecuber
telisw37OtakuJordanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con refuted every one of Pro's arguments, and Pro failed to meet his burden. Con also had much better conduct than Pro.
Vote Placed by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
telisw37OtakuJordanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Theres enough stupid material in this debate for me to make the Weekly Stupid actually be Weekly.....
Vote Placed by NiqashMotawadi3 3 years ago
NiqashMotawadi3
telisw37OtakuJordanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had many red herrings and biblical quotations, which made this a difficult read, but it all came down to if there is anything against theistic evolution in the Bible. Pro used the existence of Adam and Eve, and con clearly explained that this is compatible with theistic evolution. The main struggle seemed to be on what parts of the Bible are metaphoric, but Pro was unable to show why his literal interpretation is more accurate than a less literal reading of Genesis, it could very well be that Pro is understanding metaphors as literal statements. Hence, Pro failed at fulfilling his BoP. Con had generally a good conduct, while Pro's was awful, so I'm voting on the basis of conduct and arguments.