The Instigator
Avamys
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Jessalyn
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Churches should be excluded from gay or lesbian laws

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/24/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,122 times Debate No: 29495
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Avamys

Pro

First I would like to say that I am neither against or for gay or lesbian rights. All I think is churches should be excluded from any laws made.
Here are the rules:
No swearing or calling names
No insulting religions or people
Stay polite
Arguments and rebuttals are allowed at any time

The first round is acceptance, the second to fourth will be free, but of course adhering to the rules.
Jessalyn

Con

I accept this debate, and look forward to hearing my opponent's arguments! Just to clarify, my stance is that churches should NOT be exempt from any form of legislation which, in this case, involves legislation regarding homosexual rights.
Debate Round No. 1
Avamys

Pro

So here's my argument:

1. We have religious freedom. Christianity started over 2000 years ago, and the Bible, their holy book, does not allow believers to have relationships (as a married couple) with people of the same sex. This religion did not pop up all of a sudden so people against the proposed laws could find a way to get around it. The same goes to Jewish people. Their religion does not allow same-sex marriage either. So if a Christian church pastor replies no when a child at Sunday school asks if being gay or lesbian is OK, it should not count as discrimination of people who have different sexual interests. If there is a job open at a church (let's say a technician), and a person who applied was lesbian, and the church refused to accept her application, it should not count as discrimination towards people who have different sexual interests as well.

2. I am only asking for churches to be excluded, and that does not include a person who is a Christian extremist but does not represent a church. Whatever comment he made on such topic not on behalf of a church is not excluded from the proposed law.

There are things I would like to clarify:
True, you cannot control who you fall in love with. You cannot help it if he/she just happens to be the same sex as you are. And of course you will not like it if people discriminate you and treat you unfairly because of your unusual marital status. I am just suggesting that churches should be excluded because of reasons such as religious freedom.
Jessalyn

Con

Jessalyn forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Avamys

Pro

I see you forfeited this round. However, I will continue with my arguments. I would like to elaborate on them.

People who are Christian, Catholic or Jewish believe that they should not have a sexual, marriage or dating relationship with people of the same sex. We should protect their right of following what is preached in their religion, as we all have religious freedom. I am not implying that churches will be able to criticise people in same-sex relationship freely and in an insulting way, but that it should not be illegal if they teach believers that it is not right to have such a relationship or read a passage from the Bible that says same-sex relationships are bad.

I do not see any reason why we should not include churches from such laws. We all have religious freedom. It is not discrimination. For example, as tradition goes, male villagers lead the worshipping of their ancestors in China. That is not sexual discrimination as it is their culture, a habit passed down from generations. Only Muslims can go into their places of worship, but that is not religious discrimination as it is said in their holy book that such a visitor should not be allowed. It is their custom and we should respect that.

I hope you will not forfeit the next round as I am looking forward to seeing your arguments.
Jessalyn

Con

I deeply apologize for forfeiting the previous round! Some unexpected issues came up and I was unable to post my argument. I"m sorry for the confusion, and greatly appreciate your patience. :)

My opponent has, thus far, based his arguments on the First Amendment; specifically religious freedom and freedom of speech. The resolution of this debate is that churches should be excluded from "gay or lesbian laws," therefore all of my opponent"s arguments so far are unrelated to the debate at hand. Legislation regarding homosexuals does not unreasonably limit freedom of speech, nor does it violate the religious freedom of citizens. Voicing one"s opinions regarding homosexuality is perfectly legal. It is not until violence or verbal harassment is brought into the picture that the law steps in. We really don"t have a debate here if my opponent is simply reserving First Amendment rights rather than defending the stated resolution that churches should be excluded from "gay or lesbian laws."

Thanks again to my opponent, and I look forward to hearing his response.
Debate Round No. 3
Avamys

Pro

Here is my rebuttal.
I quote from my opponent 'voicing one's opinion towards homosexuality is perfectly legal,'
However, I would like to point out that, if there were such a law, saying anything bad about homosexuality (whether it is your own opinion or not) would be illegal. It would be seen as an insult and the speaker could be accused.

Let's look at this example. If a pastor told his fellow worshippers that they could not be gay or lesbian because the Bible forbidden it and it was bad, since they should not go against God's words. Then, he could be accused because he said that being gay or lesbian was 'bad' and people who are gay or lesbian would take it as an insult.

I understand how you link my previous argument to freedom of speech. I would like to clarify. Although we all have freedom of speech, it has limits. We should not take advantage of this right to insult others. What I am saying is, some religions do not allow such relationships and because we have freedom of religion, we should exclude churches from such laws. This, however, would not violate others' rights as the churches are only exempted when they are asked such a question (i.e. Is being gay or lesbian allowed?) or when they read a Bible verse that means being gay or lesbian is not welcome in God's eyes.

If churches are not excluded, it would severely harm freedom of religion.
Jessalyn

Con

Jessalyn forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Avamys

Pro

I see you forfeited this round. As you have forfeited a lot of the rounds, I suggest that we debate all over again if you are really serious about this topic.
Jessalyn

Con

Gosh, I'm really sorry about that. I could make my argument in this last round, but I don't think that would be fair to my opponent...So I will gladly begin a whole new debate on this subject if my opponent so wishes. Thanks again, and I'm very sorry for my forfeits.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Jessalyn 4 years ago
Jessalyn
I deeply apologize to my opponent for my forfeit! Some unexpected things have come up in the past few days and I just didn't have time to post an argument. If it's alright with my opponent, I'd love to continue the debate regardless and pick up right where we left off? Again, I'm very sorry.
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