The Instigator
FallofEmpire888
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Sky_ace25
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points

Civilization

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/13/2010 Category: Society
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,007 times Debate No: 11171
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (9)
Votes (2)

 

FallofEmpire888

Con

Civilization will always result in hierarchy, social stratification and mass amounts of suffering to humans, non humans and the earth. Civilization is not sustainable and can never be sustainable. The problems which emerge from civilization such as poverty, capitalism, wars, mass society, overpopulation etc cannot be removed from society unless an absence of civilization.
Sky_ace25

Pro

I'd like to thank my opponent for the debate and to quickly get to the arguments.

1. My opponent has put on himself the burden that every civilization in existence and to come will always lead to all the negatives he describes; that means if the Affirmative even proves one contradiction to the Neg's argument you vote Pro. You must also vote Pro if I prove that his arguments are not bad things.

2. So let's look at my opponents case step by step:

"Hierarchy"-My opponent never says why a structural system of power is bad; in fact turn this against him I contend this power chain is a good thing. In a state of nature as argued by John Locke the fact that humans have no higher authority to appeal too in the case of injustices is what led them to establish government in the first place. It is in fact humans that set up the hierarchy in the first place with their own consent. (Most people in the modern world are not disobeying the rule law in a huge fashion).

"Social Stratification"- Not true in the case of Communistic societies; In Capitalistic societies this is to differentiate the people who work hard and prosper and the people who are lazy and not necessarily as hard working. The idea of rewarding the good and demoting the bad is not a negative thing, but in fact the main driving force behind the progression of man.

"Mass Amounts of Suffering"- In regards to humans, Civilization provides for aid such as to prevent Genocides which are caused by Man's inherent lust for control and obliteration of non-conformers. Remember in a state of nature their is no higher authority to appeal too and thus atrocities such as genocides continue on, because their is no hierarchy to stop it; thus turn this argument.

In Regards to non-humans and the earth: Animals (non-humans) do not make civilization nor do they have any claim to any rights or entitlement bestowed by it and thus this doesn't matter. Humans are more important than any "x" animal as we are the dominant species. The Earth again is governed by us an as the dominating species we are allowed to do as we see fit; further more this argument is not always true because their currently in reality reservations and activists preventing these damages. The only way they are able to voice these opinions is thanks to civilization and thus you turn that argument.

Sustainability-Have humans progressed from mere cavemen? Yes. Do we have long-lasting governments? Yes. So this opponent is not true.

Poverty- If capitalism is caused by government their is a clear contradiction here, because capitalism argues for prosperity. Further more in the case of major world super-powers their is a very clear high standard of living and I don't believe the U.S. government is "poor"

Capitalism-? OK so we are constantly pushing and challenging ourselves to strive and prosper...wow we're bad.

Wars- Inevitable, even without a governing body their would still be wars even without government. Their are always groups with different interests and ideas that will inevitably conflict.

Mass society, overpopulation- Damn, we are living longer as the DOMINANT SPECIES ON EARTH and we have a huge number of people. Damn, we're progressing and utilizing a larger work force for the ultimate prosperity of man. Damn, What would we do without a large society! Oh right, we take our role at the bottom of the food chain so the wild animals can kill us, Yay?

Thus in conclusion more than half my opponents case is contradicting; a lot of it is merely the positives of society. Remember no matter what you believe if you accept even one of my arguments you must vote Pro as my opponent has said that civilization will ALWAYS have these affects. He must further prove that these are bad things which is why they are not useful. If you accept one of them has a good thing then you must vote Pro.

Thank you for your time.
Debate Round No. 1
FallofEmpire888

Con

FallofEmpire888 forfeited this round.
Sky_ace25

Pro

My opponent forfeited extend all arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
FallofEmpire888

Con

FallofEmpire888 forfeited this round.
Sky_ace25

Pro

My opponent forfeits this round, again extend all arguments.

At the moment you are definitely giving all votes to Pro.
Debate Round No. 3
FallofEmpire888

Con

FallofEmpire888 forfeited this round.
Sky_ace25

Pro

My opponent has forfeited this entire debate and thus extend all arguments; you can simply vote off the progression of man argument.

Therefore a vote for Pro is advised and justified.
Debate Round No. 4
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by ZT 7 years ago
ZT
Freedo and War, I suggest you guys do an anarcho-capitalist vs anarcho-socialist debate. That would be interesting to see.
Posted by warllamas 7 years ago
warllamas
I forgot my password and email for the FallofEmpire888 account. So I am going to redo this debate, sorry for the inconvenience.
Posted by FallofEmpire888 7 years ago
FallofEmpire888
Capitalism is not a natural hierarchy,people are coerced and indoctrinated into it. Voluntaryism claims that individuals own themselves, but the problem with the conception of this conception of ownership is that it is irrelevant. You don't OWN yourself you ARE yourself. For most of human history the people used gift economy's. As an Anarchist I believe that mutual aid and cooperation is what is naturally forms under a free society, freed from the dehumanizing coerced hierarchy which civilization is. Hunter Gather Societies are Barbaric? This is common Hobbesian Myth, you are supporting coerced hierarchy because you subscribe to a myth. Civilization is "Barbaric".

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://primitivism.com...
Posted by FREEDO 7 years ago
FREEDO
To be an Anarchist means to believe in volunteerism. People naturally accept hierarchies to further their own interest such as making a profit. To not allow hierarchy implies force, which is the exact opposite of Anarchy. To truly be an Anarchist means to only be against involuntary hierarchy such as the state, or else your are hugely contradicting yourself. The natural state of society is to advance and build, it is an industrialist utopia not the barbaric thing you speak of.
Posted by I-am-a-panda 7 years ago
I-am-a-panda
Lol @ tribes idea.
Posted by FallofEmpire888 7 years ago
FallofEmpire888
Don't be absurd, that would be more likely under a free market. The collapse is coming civilization cannot last forever! Hunter gatherer societies are the natural state of anarchism how can you think that a free market is anarchistic at all when it is based on hierarchy and exploitation?
Posted by FREEDO 7 years ago
FREEDO
So what, just kill everyone??
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
Or 3 rounds.
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
The voting period will last indefinitely.

Fix and I will accept.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
FallofEmpire888Sky_ace25Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Sky_ace25 7 years ago
Sky_ace25
FallofEmpire888Sky_ace25Tied
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Total points awarded:07