The Instigator
SmirkyMK
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
ReginaP
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Claim that Medea is responsible for her actions

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/8/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 389 times Debate No: 75017
Debate Rounds (4)
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Votes (0)

 

SmirkyMK

Pro

1. Both parties involved need to reach an agreement and understanding of what Medea had done, the moral of her story. Murder is a crime, and those who commit murder intentionally, are never considered innocent.

2. Murder is the killing of one human being by another, with premeditation.

3. A crime is an action/activity that is considered to be evil, shameful, or wrong; It is punishable and it is against humanity.

4. Anger and revenge are two big themes, driving factors, in Medea"s story.

5. We shall agree that anger is the greatest menace to humankind.

6. It"s true that every action has a drive, a cause or response. In this case, Medea responded to her hurt feelings by murdering her own children for the intention of paining her husband.

7. Committing to doing something makes one responsible for committing and going through with it. The responsibility weighs on far before, where actions are premeditated and purposed to cause harm.

8. Therefore, Medea is responsible for her actions.

Non-controversial premises:

Premise 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are non-controversial. Premise 1 is stating what grounds we agree on and understand. Premise 2 and 3 are definitions or murder and crime. Premise 4 is stating the theme understood of Medea"s story. Premise 5 is an agreement by both parties, and it is a statement "Medea" mentioned in the Aristotle & Seneca text instructor Nolan assigned to us in class (Medea Euripides Article).

Controversial Premises:

Premises 6, and 7 are controversial:

6. Medea could have responded to her hurt feelings in a civilized manner. The path she chose to go was not the only choice she could have taken.

7. My opponent can define responsibility in her own terms.
ReginaP

Con

1. I agree with the definition of murder explained in premise two.

2. I agree with the definition of a crime as it is described in premise three.

3. Anger and revenge are both themes of this story and they are what led Madea to kill her children.

4. I agree that anger is a menace to humankind but only when acted upon. There are instances when people get angry and do not act on their anger therefore it is not a menace in that scenario. Anger is an emotion and only when people express that emotion verbally or physically is it a menace to humankind. Anger alone is harmless unless it is acted upon.

5. Madea's reaction was a spur of the moment reaction. The emotions inside of her caused her to act irrationally and, in turn, kill her children.

6. Madea did not plan this beforehand, it was a rapid decision that she had to make in a small window of time causing her to listen to her emotions rather than her head.

7. The anger blinded her, in other words, Madea saw red and was unaware of her actions.

8. Therefore, Madea was not responsible of her actions.

Non-Controversial Premises

Premises 1, 2, and 3 are non-controversial premises. Premises 1 and 2 are agreeing with the definitions put in place by my opponent. Premise 3 is also agreeing with what was stated by my opponent.

Controversial Premises

Premises 4, 5, 6, 7 are all controversial. Premise 4 is controversial because my opponent may disagree with me because I am referencing outside ideas other than the ideas of the text we are referring to. Premise 5 is controversial because I am saying that Madea's emotions got the better of her. Premise 6 is controversial because my opponent may view that claim as being obsolete or unimportant to the story. Premise 7 is controversial because I am basiclaly saying that Madea was completely taken over by her anger and was unaware of her actions at the time.
Debate Round No. 1
SmirkyMK

Pro

4. What you are saying is right, anger is a danger when it is acted upon. In this scenario it was acted upon, because Medea herself recognized that anger is the master of her plans. She herself stated anger to be "the source of the greatest troubles for humankind." She herself understood that what she was about to do in that moment was wrong, and claimed anger as a main driving source.

5. The emotions inside of Medea was again, driven by anger. Anger was responsible, but she was responsible for letting that emotion take over her. She was responsible for physically murdering her children because anger is just an emotion; This emotion is unconsciously controlling, but action is consciously done.

6. Someone cannot be as cruel as to decide one day she will murder her own children. She did this all in one day, but the definition of murder we agreed upon, included premeditated planning. Medea could have thought it over so many times, taking this as the easiest way to claim revenge and satisfying her own pain. She was selfish and inhumane.

7. Medea's agony tainted her soul and image, beyond life itself. She was not in the right state of mind. However, Medea's unconscious and conscious mind (ego and Id) have a role in all of this, as she is going back and forth mentally, seeing the right and wrong in all of this. So, she was in a way, sane and tranquil when deciding all of this mentally.

8. Her "ego" caused her to take action, her "id" simply drove her insane. Each play a part separately and accordingly so.

9. The murder was done by Medea's hand, she is responsible for acting upon her blinded emotions to do such a terrible thing.
ReginaP

Con

5 She was obviously a weak-minded person for ever letting herself think about killing her own children. So if she was weak-minded then the anger could have easily taken control of her rationality and ultimately drive her to kill her children.

6 The premeditation was her wanting to get back at her husband for causing her pain. The choice to kill her children was after she made the decision to enact revenge on her husband so the killing itself was not premeditated, it was the act of her premeditation.

7 Just because she was going back and forth with her decision-making does not mean she was sane or tranquil. It sounded like she was pretty frantic the whole time and she was deliberating whether or not to kill her children, how sane is that?

8 If her "id" drove her insane then she was insane when she killed her children which means that she is not responsible for her actions.
Debate Round No. 2
SmirkyMK

Pro

5. Anger had taken over because it is a powerful emotion that must not be tempered with. Her initial decision was to let it take over, consciously she knew what she was doing, and what she was doing was wrong.

6. The decision to enact revenge on her husband was what influenced anger and this mood. Revenge altered Medea's mood, but it did not physically make her do anything. No one but herself could make up her mind to do such a thing, then actually do it.

8. Driving someone insane and being insane is not the same thing. Aside from that, her ego was what guided her mentality into physically taking action. Id goes hand-in-hand with ego.

9.Blame is just an excuse. Blaming actions on emotions or thoughts is what Medea had done, it means nothing and claims to nothing.

10. Responsibility is when someone makes an independent decision, other influences can change and alter the decision, but other influences do not matter when the deed is done. Medea is to be responsible for her actions because it was an independent decision, clearly very personal.
ReginaP

Con

5 I do not think someone makes the decision to let an emotion take control of them. Once it starts, it is not easily stopped and the person may just give themselves up to the emotion because they do not know what else to do.

6 No, she was angry because of what her husband did to her. Her anger is what caused her to want to enact revenge, which is the definition of anger according to Aristotle.

8 You end up insane either way you word it, so I believe they are the same. Her anger drove her to irrationally kill her children in a fit of insanity she was beyond her control

9 She most likely would not have killed her children if she was not as angry at her husband as she was. That is not an excuse, that is the reason for her behavior. Again, she was blinded by rage from the start. Even though it seems as though she is talking it over with herself and weighing the pros and cons, she was in a weakened mental state from the start.

10 It was an independent decision clouded by rage and anger. She was not fully aware of her actions at the time.
Debate Round No. 3
SmirkyMK

Pro

1. Both parties involved have reached an agreement and understanding of what Medea had done, the moral of her story. Murder is a crime, and those who commit murder intentionally, are never considered innocent.

2. Murder is the killing of one human being by another, with premeditation.

3. A crime is an action/activity that is considered to be evil, shameful, or wrong; It is punishable and it is against humanity.

4. Anger and revenge are two big themes, driving factors, in Medea"s story.

5. We have agreed that anger is the greatest menace to humankind, but disagree on the details/facts backing up this statement. My opponent believes Medea had not acted on anger(repeatedly stating that anger is a danger only when acted upon in premise 4 round 1), I believe that anger is the driving force of Medea"s actions.

6. My argument is that Medea is responsible for her actions, for murdering her children. I stand by my points as they seem rational and true. Medea felt guilty even before going through with her plans, she had mixed feelings and a mindset driven by anger and revenge. As a grown person, mother, and wife, she certainly knows what responsibility means and how so importance it is in any given situation. Responsibility is having the ability to act independently to make self-decisions. Medea was burdened by this for being a grown woman, mother, and wife, and she is no stranger to responsibility.

7. Therefore, Medea was responsible for her actions.
ReginaP

Con

1 I agree that murder is a crime and those who commit it are not innocent.

2 I agree with the definition of murder.

3 Crime is evil but it is not always done by someone who is in the right state of mind and by those who are not emotionally stable.

4 Madea's anger drove her to want her to enact revenge on her husband. The anger drove her to kll her children in a blind fit of rage.

5 Anger is an issue when people cannot overcome it and it takes control of them. Madea was not in control of her actions because her anger got the best of her and she killed her children without realizing the repercussions of her actions.

6 Therefore. Madea is not responsible for her actions.

7 I still hold true to my argument that Madea is not responsible for her actions. She was so clearly wrapped up in the moment and she could not see past her anger to what damage she really was doing by killing her children. In the end, the revenge she got on her husband was brought on by a bought a rage that she could not break free from and it was ultimate demise.
Debate Round No. 4
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