The Instigator
supremecourt101
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
repete21
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points

Clarence Thomas isn't fit to be on the Supreme Court.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/14/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,435 times Debate No: 431
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (8)
Votes (11)

 

supremecourt101

Pro

Many people know of Clarence Thomas, the only african american on the Supreme Court. He is also one of the two most conservative justices on the court. This is a bit of a suprise, as over 90% of african americans vote Democrat, the liberal party in the United States. Below are the reasons that I think C.T. isn't fit to be on the Supreme Court:

Disagreement with Stare Deceisis:

S.D. is the legal principal that literally means "let it stand". This is the principal that once a court rules one way in an argument. They should solve all like cases in the same way, unless their is overwhelming evidence that the original ruling is wrong. Clarence Thomas has said that he simply doesn't follow S.D., which is a legal rule in the U.S. Even the most novie lawyers know of and follow this rule, but he simply doesn't. EVERY OTHER JUSTICE FOLLOWS S.D. TO SOME EXTENT.

Affirmative Action used to get into Yale:

At face value, anyone who went to Yale Law would be thought of as a good lawyer. But look closer. C.T. was accepted into Yale Law during their Affirmative Action campaign. Although they haven't officially answered whether he was accepted because of this program or not, anyone can see that it helped him get in. So he really wasn't qualified to get into Yale Law. Also, CT always claims that he hasn't ever benifitted from Affirmative Action, even though he clearly obtained his law degree because of it. This hypocricy has no place on The Supreme Court.

Doesn't Reflect View of Demographic:

As I mentioned earler, 90% of blacks are Democrats. Then shouldn't their only representative on the S.C. have the views that they have. You would think so... but no.

Asking ?:

It is typical of Justices on the Supreme Court to ask questions, but CT rarely does. How can he decide how to rule without asking questions.

I await a challenger.
repete21

Con

You seem to have no actual accusations towards Mr. Thomas that would justify his removal as a Justice, rather, your arguments seem to be more of personal attacks. You state that he does not follow Stare Decisis, but that is not a crime, the fact that he does not show that he has done anything wrong, but rather that he looks at cases individually, regardless of past experience. You put your word up against his by stating, "Affirmative Action used to get into Yale" but you have no proof other than that he is African American, and got into Yale during an affirmative action campaign, but you go further stating that "he really wasn't qualified to get into Yale Law", but he is said to have excelled academically in high school, and in 1971 he graduated 9th in his class with an english honors degree, you have not shown in any way that he wasn't qualified for Yale, nor have you shown that he was accepted purely because of Affirmative Action, all you have done is made assumptions, and personal attacks against Mr. Thomas. You also question him because he is a minority, within a minority, I don't see how this is at all relevant to his effectiveness, or ineffectiveness. It seems to me as though, if 90% of African Americans voted for democrats, but he was a republican, that he was obviously influentially, with whites too, which I see as a great accomplishment. And to answer your final question, who are you to say that he is incapable of doing his job because he doesn't ask questions? Unless you have proof that his lack of questions hinders his ability to do his job, this can only be seen as another one of your personal attacks, and assumptions.
Debate Round No. 1
supremecourt101

Pro

You seem to misunderstand me. I am not saying that he sould have been kicked off the court. That can only happen when he has commited a crime. Rather, I am saying that he never should have been nominated in the first place.

You pointed out that it isn't a law that you have to follow stare decisis, but it is something that nearly every lawyer does. He isn't a qualified as a lawyer. Below are facts supporting that :

The American Bar Association didn't support his nomination. They gave their approval of EVERY OTHER justice on the court except for him.

NAACP, Urban League, and National Organization of Women all opposed his appointment

He received a Segal-Cover score of 415. Segal Cover rates qualifications of SCOTUS justices on a 1 - 1000 point scale. he is the lowest on the court and the lowest in histoy of the Segal-Cover point system.

I would like to point out that Justic Antonin Scalia, a strong conservative much like Thomas, has a perfect 1000. Just goes to show that this isn't because of Thomas' judicial philosoph, it is because of his qualification.

I also would like to point out that Thomas is African American. You said that I had no way of knowing that, but it even says in his auto-biography that he is African American.

I also would like to point out, on the topic of stare-deceisis, that even Scalia, who is very conservative, says that Thomas is "a nut" for not following stare deceisis.
repete21

Con

First off, I was mistaken on saying that you didn't know that he was African American, I meant to say, that you don't know, nor do you have proof, that he got into Yale because of Affirmative Action. You have also changed to saying that "He shouldn't have been appointed" rather than sticking to the Resolution, which is "Clarence Thomas isn't fit to be on the Supreme Court" stating that he shouldn't be on the supreme court now. You have only brought up evidence that certain people don't like him, but NOTHING that shows he has done something wrong. You make the fact that he scored 415 on the Segal-Cover sound like a bad thing, which is misleading, the Segal-Cover simply shows if someone is liberal or conservative. Can we really say that he is not fit to be a justice because his opinion isn't the same as Scalia? You also seem to be running Stare-Decisis into the ground, but that isn't a law, and just because most lawyers follow it, doesn't mean that every one should follow it. You have also stated that he was not supported by the ABA, but you failed to mention that the ABA is just a volunteer association. From what I have learned, I believe that Mr. Thomas is fully capable of doing his job as a justice, and that your attacks were misleading, and nothing more than personal attacks against the him.
Debate Round No. 2
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by The_Silent_Consensus 9 years ago
The_Silent_Consensus
In spite of the fact that I can only think of one time I agreed with him (Kelo), he's fit to be a Justice
Posted by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
"Why is it when someone's race is brought up, it is by the people who claim to be colorblind and believe in equality?"

The Left's obsession with race and racial identity is every bit as racist as the Dixiecrat version of racism. And just like the old southern Dixiecrats, the Left seeks to achieve their racial goals through government violence.
Posted by shatto 9 years ago
shatto
If Justice Thomas is so bad, why did Democrats vot for him? They could have "Borked" him.

That the NAACP, Urban League and the Nags (National Association of Gals) are against him, honors his Conservatism and lack of "activism."

Why is it when someone's race is brought up, it is by the people who claim to be colorblind and believe in equality?
Posted by PreacherFred 9 years ago
PreacherFred
Without doing any research on my own, I do believe that supremecourt101 faild to substantiate his claim. However, i take strong offense to mrpresident's comment: "than the rabid flock of black sheep (no pun intended) that are the 90% Democrat?" Sounds racisit and has no place here!
Posted by vicious_wit 9 years ago
vicious_wit
Oh my Lord, where to begin with this debate.

Affirmative Action used to get into Yale:

Very few minorities would admit to being benefited by affirmative action; many of them dislike it. Especially for a place like Yale. And why use that against him? He didn't put affirmative action in effect...

Doesn't Reflect View of Demographic:

What the heck does that have to do with anything? You're saying he doesn't fit the stereotype, and so he doesn't deserve the spot?!

Asking ?:

Once again, you're using this "typicallity" argument. You shouldn't judge somebody based on other people like that.

You just seem immensely focused on stereotypes that really don't matter, supremecourt101. Or they are based on what the OTHER JUSTICES have done...being different isn't BAD, or did you never watch Sesame Street?

Why do you keep pointing out his race? Why does that matter?!
Posted by clsmooth 9 years ago
clsmooth
supremecourt101's arguments are very racist. Racism is illogical, and therefore, no logic follows from his arguments. Easy win for CON.
Posted by Chuckles 9 years ago
Chuckles
the Justices aren't elected officials to represent anyone. so it doesn't matter if he is african american AND conservative. Even if he was in an elected position, he would have no responsibility to vote the same way the majority of black people do. It would be by area, and even then, he would not have to follow that area's opinions, because he gets elected because of HIS opinions. if they didn't like the way he thought, they wouldn't vote for him. also, couldn't it possibly be that the NAACP, urban league, and NOW opposed his nomination because THEY DISAGREE WITH HIS OPINIONS? and on the SD topic, he has no responsibility to follow that, it is simply a tradition or precedent. "so help me god" was not part of the original oath of office for president, but Washington said it anyways. now every president has said that, but that doesn't mean they MUST.
Posted by mrpresident 9 years ago
mrpresident
You just hate him 'cuz he's black. Seriously though, why is it not kosher for him to have different views than the rabid flock of black sheep (no pun intended) that are the 90% Democrat? He's entitled to his OWN opinion, not one he clings to because he's black.
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Vote Placed by behindblueeyes 8 years ago
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