The Instigator
kohai
Pro (for)
Tied
4 Points
The Contender
Aceviper2011
Con (against)
Tied
4 Points

Classical Music

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/16/2011 Category: Arts
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,512 times Debate No: 16540
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (12)
Votes (3)

 

kohai

Pro

In this debate, I will attempt to prove that Classical Music should be appreciated more than it is. My opponent will attempt to prove that it is old and pointless--something that we really don't need any longer.

Classical Music: Music written in the time period known as the "Baroque era" "Classical Era" and "Romantic Era"

Famous composers from those three eras include: Beethoven, Mozart, Wagner, Puccini, Chopin, Vivaldi, Haydn, and Mahler.

Contention 1: Classical music makes kids smarter.

I contend that it is important for kids to listen to classical music from an early age. Why? Well, there is something called the "Mozart effect" that kids that listen to Mozart's music and other music from the classical era perform better on tests? What are my sources?

http://www.mozarteffect.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Contention 2: Classical music is a part of history

I contend that classical music is a part of history and it should be venerated.

Contention 3: Classical music is the best form of music

I contend that classical music is the best music for the following reasons:
1) There are no violent words in the music
2) It has a MUCH better melody than most of the contemporary music
3) It challenges our minds
4) To play properly, it is very difficult and takes a lot of skill (Contention 4)

Contention 4: Classical music takes a ton of talent to play properly

I contend that classical music takes more talent to perform well than most contemporary music.

1) Judges and critics of classical music look for dynamics, note accuracy and rhythm which is important to music. If scales didn't exist, music and classical music wouldn't exist.
2) It is very hard to play all those fast scales, trills, and viberato/liberato that most of classical piano has.

Those are my opening arguments.
Aceviper2011

Con

well most of my sources i use in debates so you know are my own thoughts about what should or shouldn't be in the world.
Classical music is good.

in your contention 1:
you had stated "that it is important for kids to listen to classical music from an early age" then you said basically "classical music help students better on test scores". Yes music does help students allot, but does it only have to be classical music? no, music is music in if your sources states that scientificly proven that classical music does help, but by how much are the numbers in that scientific myth. Not putting the type of music down, but even (not for it) Weed helps people do better, (people who does it only) people who listen to rock, rap they also do good, even people who just have the test in front with no distractions does better. Music is another form of relaxing your mind to think clearer. As for Wikipedia not bringing it down but thats not a liable source to use its everyones view, things always change it never stays the same. To do good on test study its the most common, as for the performing on test goes it all depends on the person not what they listen to or use to clear there mind to stay in focus.

Contention 2 statements of my opponent:
Yes classical music is part of history, but so is country music, and so is the oldies of music. As for venerating classical music is over dueing it, to venerate is to make something higher to praise it kind of like a God. If you want to praise classical music go ahead my friend who am i to say what you can or cannot do or argue your intentions with classical music. Everyone should have a choice to venerate what they please, there no right or wrong, i know classical music is good, but I am not going to over due it and praise it.

Contention 3:
1) you stated "no violent words in the music" no there not, but there also no words, but also there is other music that actually uses words that have no violent words too classical music isn't the only type out there. Who knows Maybe when the classical music gets loud and fast maybe thats an understandable reason of anger, when someone dies in a movie you hear calm melody, what about when there is fighting in a movie, the music is use a an angry violent melody.
2) Maybe to you it has a MUCH better melody then other music but others know musicians who uses instruments just adding words make good melody. My favorites are bone thugs, and Tool melody, they also keep rhythem and even fade allot of melody not only keeping it the same as one beat or instrument play back ( meaning keeping using the same cords over and over just in different places of the song) melody is played different by many people, even indians had good melody just using drums and sticks, it all depends on the person thoughts on what is good, everyone is different and has different views on what has better melody in there music.
3)"challenges the mind" yea and no listening to the type of music doesn't challenge your mind as much as a rap or music with words while listening try singing songs you don't know thats a challenge. Now instrument playing some people can play with out any lessons. Some have that ear to make out the tone of music, I bet after you learn an instrument it wouldn't be challenging, that varies also on the type of person you are.
4)like i said some people with out any practice or lessons could play really good, people could have a mind of music and would not find anything challenging about it. now a person who need it yea at first it could be hard but if you put your mind to it then the challenge is not there.

Contention 4:
Like in my last paragraph my thoughts on this yes an not. Some could do it with out allot of practice some cant, it all depends on you and the person you are to be able to want to do it, but anyone can do it, just if they choose to or not so it varies, people with no skills probually could be as good as someone with skill.

As for your accuracy and rhythem and with out scales music wouldnt exist now i dissagree on that, remember the indians, people way before our time before scales were invented and that should answer that statement you use with out an explenation on my part.
Debate Round No. 1
kohai

Pro

I again would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate, and the opportunity to debate.

you had stated "that it is important for kids to listen to classical music from an early age" then you said basically "classical music help students better on test scores". Yes music does help students allot, but does it only have to be classical music? no, music is music in if your sources states that scientificly proven that classical music does help, but by how much are the numbers in that scientific myth. Not putting the type of music down, but even (not for it) Weed helps people do better, (people who does it only) people who listen to rock, rap they also do good, even people who just have the test in front with no distractions does better. Music is another form of relaxing your mind to think clearer. As for Wikipedia not bringing it down but thats not a liable source to use its everyones view, things always change it never stays the same. To do good on test study its the most common, as for the performing on test goes it all depends on the person not what they listen to or use to clear there mind to stay in focus.

Classical music helps keep your mind focused. In fact, most studies say that classical music helps re-generate the mind.

Most people would agree that listening to loud, percussive, and lyrical music while attempting to focus on the task at hand will result in a distraction and error filled performance.

Yes classical music is part of history, but so is country music, and so is the oldies of music. As for venerating classical music is over dueing it, to venerate is to make something higher to praise it kind of like a God. If you want to praise classical music go ahead my friend who am i to say what you can or cannot do or argue your intentions with classical music. Everyone should have a choice to venerate what they please, there no right or wrong, i know classical music is good, but I am not going to over due it and praise it.

I am not saying that other forms of music should not be taught or is as important. In fact, I feel that other types of music should also be offered in school and stuff like that. When I say venerate I am meaning that it should be appreciated more than it is by most people.

You may also want to read this article about scales http://www.easyduets.co.uk...

Other contentions

Contention 1: Classical music helps calm body and mind

Why is it that most people listen to classical music when trying to sleep as opposed to Michael Jackson? Well, classical music (such as
fantasia on an original theme, Requiem (Mozart), Requiem (Verdi), Minuet in G (Beethoven)

Again I go back to the argument that states that lyric filled performances makes the mind work harder

Contention 2: It takes a lot of physical energy to correctly perform classical music.

Music is more than notes on a page. Sure, anyone can sing or play a bunch of notes, but to actually play with expression the pieces that are written need a lot of practice. Take, for example, Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata mov. 1. There are a ton of dynamics in it (the first part is pp and you need to play super quietly) while in the 3rd movement of the sonata it is very fast and all over the place with dynamics.

I've attempted (and failed) at playing the violin. My friend allows me to play hers in orchestra (I play piano) and it is physically draining after 1 minute or less of playing. Imagine what it would be if you had to play the violin, cello, viola, or base or any instrument in pieces like Ride of the Valkaries by Wagner!

Final statements

Music is almost a whole new language. You can take a piece of classical music, close your eyes, and feel like you are in a much more peaceful world.

We hear classical music all the time and don't even realise it! They are used in cartoons and many other places. In fact, here is a list of classical pieces I know you know!

Morning mood ;(Very discriptive of a sunrise)

1812 overture ;(Same compoers composed the nutcracker suite and swan lake)

Canon in D ;(Used in a ton of weddings)

Wedding March from A midsummer night's dream (Composed by Mendelssohn, a composer in the classical era)

Hungarian Raphsody no. 2

Symphony no. 5-MVT 1

Obviously the videos are not part of my argument, but something for fun for the readers to listen to.

My opponent has not shown why classical music should be forgotten and is pointless (remember in the first round I stated his purpose was to show it was pointless)

Vote pro!
Aceviper2011

Con

Look man i not wanting to give up on this and I not saying I will just this topic isnt my cup of tea. Yes i know you said about appreciating it more and people do appreciate it, I even enjoy listening to it.

when you talk about how scientist and all this proved in studies, what about the whole world scientist only looks at what they ask people in area, they dont go place to place, village to village, town to town, people everywhere, its only a group of scientist views, we as a society listen to only facts on what this scientist proven we dont think in our minds and try with out sources on our own knowledge.

lets get back to classical music I love the music to, but I not going to listen to everything studies shown, or scientist try and prove, who says I am wrong or who says what i say is wrong why use articles and studies and all that to try and prove something. When i stated "It all depends on a person on there scores, and studies, also how a person can play what they do its all them and who they are" the people choose I most guarentee in china or japan a child younger then your age bro can play instruments with out having a hard time why cause they put displine in there work it is what they want to be or to do.

Classical music is always going to be apart of us, it still is a big part of who we are today, it just involved into now day music. The rythem and beat, they still are used melody and everything its like classic 2011 you know new classic, but i agree to what you are saying. everything i say though i not using sources its all my thoughts but yea i agree to all what you are saying and no classic music is not forgotten it just upgraded that all we all still listen to a form of classic. As for that article its someones point of view the publishers thoughts i mean writers. its only one scientist view and maybe many but not the whole worlds.

It was an honor debating against you. this isnt my strong suite i already know you won, I had fun something new to debate about.
Debate Round No. 2
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by TeddyKyle 5 years ago
TeddyKyle
I see, sorry didn't read it. I've replied.
Posted by Aceviper2011 5 years ago
Aceviper2011
I talking about a serious one, read your message about the rules and stuff.
Posted by TeddyKyle 5 years ago
TeddyKyle
Yes, we could have a fun debate together if you'd like. Just hit me up whenever you're ready! Once again no hard feelings ;)
Posted by kohai 5 years ago
kohai
oh and by the way I bet if they did not have spell check or grammar check no one would have all this good grammar just my opinion

He does have a point
Posted by Aceviper2011 5 years ago
Aceviper2011
Look these are only comments anyways grammar and all that right now do not really matter to me right now, my opponent and I already agree this topic and debate was going to be short and for fun. Yea I already told him that his passion for this topic is extremely high, I already acknowledged all his views. We'll I needed this debate to start voting, so he helped me out it was like I said "for fun" for the both of us, not a serious debate. He loves classic music and that's ok, but I not going to sit here and pass judgement on someone's grammar or the way they talk or type things.

if you had read any of my other debates my passion you would see how good I really am, in ways people do not agree but that's the way it goes. Grammar or no grammar if we want to get real technical about grammar and all that the English language is very difficult and has many rules, not everyone has real perfect grammar.

I not going to sit here and read through everything you type in your debates and fix grammar cause who am I to judge someone in the way they talk and spell. That's my point,

you forget I ask a question what is your strong suit in a debate topic, so next week ill give you a challenge on your strong suit. It can be abortion, or religion, or death penalty, then if you want to get a real debate challenge no sources can be use. You only use your own knowledge on the topic that you know, not no one Else's research nor numbers, nor there knowledge thats a real debate challenge.

oh and by the way I bet if they did not have spell check or grammar check no one would have all this good grammar just my opinion
Posted by TeddyKyle 5 years ago
TeddyKyle
I see that your main point here is that you simply took this debate "for fun". However, kohai seemed pretty serious about his debate during his first round. I did not see anything relating to a "for fun" debate as you call it. He seemed devoted to it, but you simply took it as "for fun" - something a good debater does not do. A good debater takes everything seriously and answers with good grammar, reliable sources, etc.

I see you have started to use capitalization here. However, there are still a few spelling mistakes and punctuation isn't that good. I'm not trying to "show off" or a jerk, just pointing out a few things.

"Also do not under estimate someone either" - The either at the end here is redundant as you have already made your point using the word "also". It is not under estimate, it is underestimate.

"my own thoughts thats what debating is about is your own mind not no other person views or studies" - That's not thats. A typical example of a sentence in dire need of proper punctuation. "Not no other" isn't particularly good grammar either.

There are same mistakes throughout your response, however I'm just simply proving my point in my first comment. I do not mean to underestimate nor offend you, however I see here that kohai did indeed started a very invigorating and perhaps controversial topic, hoping for a good debate. I just wished he'd found a more worthy opponent that didn't take it as "for fun". Again, no hard feelings, you do seem like a very dedicated person too. :)
Posted by Aceviper2011 5 years ago
Aceviper2011
Dude was talking about me Kohai
Posted by kohai 5 years ago
kohai
Who me or my opponent?
Posted by Aceviper2011 5 years ago
Aceviper2011
Teddykyle I am a good opponent, I also do have good grammar also, do not pass judgement on a debate that was just for fun. Also do not under estimate someone either, see the points I make are from my own thoughts thats what debating is about is your own mind not no other person views or studies, when you use sources your using someone elses thoughts and there mind to prove a point. Also sources are not always correct, theres always a flaw, if you want a good debate with someone who uses his own mind then I am the guy. Don't pass judgement on someone you never challenged or two people using this debate just for fun. What you posted about me offended me by the way, you do not have a clue about me or my ability to debate.
Posted by Aceviper2011 5 years ago
Aceviper2011
anyone judging this thats cool but this debate was just for fun, we did it so i can vote and as for my capitalizing and sources and all that my source was my own brain. this debate was a good debate, it was only for fun to get me on the voteing list.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by headphonegut 5 years ago
headphonegut
kohaiAceviper2011Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro kept insisting that classical music was a good thing however he did not refute cons challenge that other music could work just as well
Vote Placed by Zyanya 5 years ago
Zyanya
kohaiAceviper2011Tied
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Total points awarded:20 
Reasons for voting decision: Better sources.
Vote Placed by Cobo 5 years ago
Cobo
kohaiAceviper2011Tied
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Total points awarded:20 
Reasons for voting decision: The Arguments were decent by both side. Pro Gets sources though.