The Instigator
Jdogg303
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

Clinton(CON) or Trump(PRO)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/4/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 614 times Debate No: 95872
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

Jdogg303

Pro

I want trump for president. He seems like the smarter choice to rebuild our country. Only problem is both of them are gambles so what do we do?
lannan13

Con

Though I dislike both candidates, I shall be arguing for Clinton in this debate. Due to the traditional structure, this round shall be for my Opening Arguments only.

Contention 1: Deportation

We all currently know that Donald J Trump's greatest and most famous piece of his platform is the wall and deportation of all illegal immigrants in the US. The issue with that is that it's not as easy as he makes it seem, not to mention that it will hurt the US so bad that it pushes us into an economic Depression, not just a recession.

The key thing we have to look at here is the illegal immigrants jobs as well how they affect the everyday American. Former Chairman of the Federal Reserve showed that illegal immigrants, mainly from Latin America, had accounted for a sixth of the US economic growth from 2000-2007. [1] While in the US, illegal immigrants have been supporting their families back home while in the past year, illegal immgirants had sent home $63 billion. [2] This shows that they are not as "heartless" or "lazzy" as my opponent claims they are as it is impoosible to send that much home if you're living on welfare. The CBO reports that if we are to allow illegal immigrants work in the US, they will raise wages in the long hall, but deportation will lead to a decrease of our wages by 0.6%, which despite not sounding like much, is still a significant loss. [3] We have to also look and see that Trump himself has also flip flopped on this issue from going hard line to saying that this is a possiblity within days [13]. What kind of President do we expect to have when they are teeter tottering on an issue that can destroy our nation?

With this being my final point I will review the final costs of deportation. If we were to deport ALL illegal immigrants in the US our nation's GDP would drop by $1.6 TRILLION! [4] This is a huge effect on the economy that would sink the US into another Great Depression not to mention all fo the other impacts that I have brought up this round. There is no logical reason why the US should deport all illegal immigrants, but should instead grant amnesty to those here which Clinton not only supports, but will expand on increasing the US economy while Trump will plunge the world into a second Great Depression.

Contention 2: Clinton the Unifier.

Many times Trump has called Mexicans rapists and criminals. He has attacked all non-white, evangelical Americans. Trump's own rhetoric has caused riots in the US. Many times his own words has sparked riots like in Chicago and many places in California where people don't appriate this Fascist Rhetoric where he constantly gives hate speeches against others and then goes to blame the problems he has been causing on Bernie supporters where he fails to understand the implacations of his own actions [5]. Studies have shown that Trump's own hate speech has created a level of harm where people are more violitile against others.

In a 2005 experiment, […] passers-by were more likely to help an apparently injured person if that person was wearing a football jersey which supported the same team as them than an opposing team. However, when their shared identity as football fans was made salient instead, supporters of both teams were likely to be helped, significantly more so than a person wearing a plain shirt.[6]"

Here we can see the effects, though on a simplistic scale, that such an action can effect people and it shows how people are less able to help out minorities when subjected to this kind of speech while under the normal case where they would easily help anyone. Trump is tearing this country appart and something needs to be done before it's too late.

On top of this, Trump has tried to introduce a program where we survey Muslim neighborhoods and mosques. This is an extremely flawed plan. John Horgan, the Director of the Center for Terrorism and Security Studies at UMass pointed out a great deal of the flaws in this plan. He showed that there is a great deal of vagueness that is involved in this plan like "How do we define concerning behavior?" "How do others and how should they recognize it?[7]" These are some key issues with the plan that are very vague making it impossible to actually enforce or even to do so without people being wrongly accused and improsioned. This breads distrust and zero co-operation which was a key flaw in Trump's Plan. Hilary will not do such an autrocity where our own Constitutional Rights are being intruded on just to follow through with some sort of xenophobic plan.

Contention 3: Domestic

This is a very broad topic here, so I'll only be able to lightly touch some of the topics here. For Starters, when we actually compare the two campaigns, we can see that Hilary is more open with her campaign than Trump. If you look at both campaign websites, you'll only see that Trump lists and defends 7 political issues, while Hilary supports over 35 political issues [8][9].

Hilary has openly stated that she supports a minimum wage increase to $12 per hour, but Trump, on the other hand, has purposed things that will destroy the economy as well as the well being of every American. Several times this election he has changed his stance from opposing the raising of the minimum wage, to wanting it raised, to his newest stance where Trump wants to abolish the minimum wage [10]. This would completely harm many of the average Americans as many of the costal states would have high minimum wages, many of the Midwestern states would have a mimium wage that is decreased which would harm the well being of every single American as many would be unable to afford many of the rising prices that would occur with this as their incomes shrank.

The next key issue is abortion. Hilary Clinton has been a great supporter of women's rights, but Trump on the other hand, has said some terrible things on the matter. Trump had stated that women who recieve abortions should be punished. This was an outrage that someone who is running or even going to be President, would even consider. This is a clear violation of female rights as the SCOTUS has ruled Abortion to be Constitutionally legal. Within 3 hours of his statement, Trump changed his stance on it, not once, not twice, but three times [11]. This is something that shouldn't be over looked as he simply did this as damage control to hide his own motives and this isn't someone we should have as President.

Hilary Clinton has supported clear common sense gun control, but Trump on the other hand, has flip flopped many times on this issue. Trump had stated that he had supported the second amendment, but he has also stated that he supported Assault Rifle Ban, magazine bans, and longer back ground checks. He has also stated the exact opposite [12]. Can we really support a President who flip flops so many times on these issues that are extremely important to our nation? Especially when these flip flops are within months of each other, others over time. ;

Contention 4: Leadership Trumps.

Bad puns aside, the race for the Presidency must be focused around leadership which is obviously Clinton by a mile. Don't believe me? Let's hear what Trump has to say.

"Hillary is smart, tough and a very nice person, so is her husband. Bill Clinton was a great president. They are fine people. Hillary was roughed up by the media, and it was a tough campaign for her, but she's a great trooper. Her history is far from being over," and "I know Hillary and I think she'd make a great president or vice-president." [14]

As a senator from New York, she was the first ever New Yorker to serve part of the Senate Armed Services Committee and helped for the Family and Medical leave Act, she also worked to expand health care for the National Guard. Where does Trump stand on this, he makes fun of POWs and attacks our nation's vets. What kind of Commander in Chief would do such a thing? Vetern groups have actually condemned Trump because of this [15]. Our nation's troops wouldn't even respect him.

On immigration, she took charge by help passing the DREAM act. She introduced two key bills to help our new immigrants by introducing S. 764 (110th) by extending medical care to low income LEGAL immigrants and pregnant women. She also helped introduce S. 1543 (108th) which helped give new immigrants job training and help them learn English. What does Trump want to do? Deport all illegal immigrants claiming they are all rapists and criminals. Is this the message we should be sending to legal immigrants coming to America of what we think of them?

Hilary has helped broker a key Cease fire between Israel and Hamas [16]. If the allowed to continue, Israel would have launched a ground invasion of the Gaza strip possibly leading to massive war in the middle east and oil prices to skyrocket.


Sources
1. Alan Greenspan, PhD, former Chairman of the US Federal Reserve, stated in his Apr. 30, 2009 testimony before the US Senate Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees, and Border Security
2. (http://tinyurl.com...)
3. (http://tinyurl.com...)
4. (http://tinyurl.com...)
5. (http://tinyurl.com...)
6. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin 31: 443–453.
7. (http://tinyurl.com...)
8. (http://tinyurl.com...)
9. (http://tinyurl.com...)
10. (http://tinyurl.com...)
11. (http://tinyurl.com...)
12. (http://tinyurl.com...)
13. (http://tinyurl.com...)
14. (http://tinyurl.com...)
15. (http://tinyurl.com...)
16. (http://tinyurl.com...)
Debate Round No. 1
Jdogg303

Pro

YOUR MEMES ARENT DANK BOI... So you think over all Hilary is better than Trump? IM MEXICAN...15,000 emails...
Trump wants to make america great again. hes trying to keep out crimnals thats why we should deport hillary for being rasicst trash can. she wants to raise taxes and let people take our jobs so sir?
lannan13

Con

I find it a tad bit humerous that my opponent resorts to trolling instead of refutting my arguments. Nevertheless, I shall continue the debate.

Economy

Donald Trump is going to make America poor again. A group of expert economists did a study on Trump's purposed 35% tarrif on Mexico and 45 tarrifs on China and the results are disasterous. It will cost the Average American $11,500 in increased prices over the next 5 years, and these numbers are expected to continue to climb [1]. It will cost poor Americans 53% of their income and prices will rise 30%. US exports to these nations will decline by 78%! If you want to make America great again, then Trump is not the right answer. Sure Trump may oppose the TPP, but so does Hilary [2].

Trump is simply in love with Hillary and the Democrats, "I've been around a long time. And it just seems the economy does better under the Democrats than under Republicans. [3]"

Foreign Policy

I have previously brought up Hilary's peace deal with Israel and Hamas stoping a war. What has Trump done to even come close to this? Trump actually supported the Iraq War, Trump had stated on the Howard Stern show that he supported the Iraq war when asked. In a seperate interview, he said he'd supported it since the markets would skyrocket [4]. Sounds like strong support to me. As much as Trump likes to bash the Iran deal, we can call this a huge success for Hilary, she created the sanction that finally brougth Iran to it's knees while all the other sanctions just encouraged Iran to continue nuclear developement [5]. Trump stated that he would hammar them with sanctions, but if that was true, Iran would have a nuke under Trump. Speaking of the Iran deal, Trump had originally supported the deal [6]. This is just another foreign policy flip flop by Trump. Bengahzi is a dead issue, Hillary Clinton was interviewed by the Bengahzi investigation pannel headed by Trey Goudy and easily won out. There's nothing else here to prove. We are talking about Donald Trump here who wants to bring back torture and kill family members of terrorists. Which is why so many people actually oppose the US in the first place.

Sources
1. (http://tinyurl.com...)
2. (http://tinyurl.com...)
3. (http://tinyurl.com...)
4. (http://tinyurl.com...)
5. (http://tinyurl.com...)
6. (http://tinyurl.com...)
Debate Round No. 2
Jdogg303

Pro

thats it hillary is pepe the damm frog a dead meme and trump is harabe a god that will never die. you sir have problems and say yah democrats. but when you relize that hillary is sending us all to hell. you sir will be going down first your a mother f********** N1GGER
lannan13

Con

My opponent has not addressed any of my arguments. All points extended.
Debate Round No. 3
Jdogg303

Pro

Im deeply sorry i left to go to the bathroom in school and my friends wrote a bunch of stuff so i am sorry
lannan13

Con

You're fine, you may feel free to post your arguments in the next round.
Debate Round No. 4
Jdogg303

Pro

Ok so i have a question do you want to have 8 more years of the country being the way that it is and maybe even worse or do you want a new america? do you want clintons wife in office? It will be an etended Bill Clinton presidency and she will be his puppet...
lannan13

Con

To answer my opponent's question, I don't. That's why I'm voting for Gary Johnson in this upcoming election. Granted he will lose, but I'm wanting Johnson. My opponent has not refuted any argument that I have brought up in this debate, so I'll extend all points and urge a vote in Negation.

Thank you and please vote Con.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by BackCommander 4 months ago
BackCommander
Of course the Clintons are dishonest, most politicians are. Trump is just as dishonest as Hillary is, and the fact that you buy into the two party system only helps illuminate that you're not credible. Liberals did not create the KKK, Democrats of the time did, democrats whose ideals more align with modern republicans than modern democrats.

If you have no thoughts of your own then I see no reason why anyone on this site should take you seriously. You do what so many ignorant Americans do, you speak of the evils of one candidate while ignoring the evils of the other. There are more than two people running for president, the lesser of two evils isn't a choice that has to be made.
Posted by KadeDaBabe 4 months ago
KadeDaBabe
Also he has proven that he knows how to handle money, stress, peoples jobs, and many other leadership characteristic. Hillary has lied about her email server, Benghazi, and whitewater. She is a crooked, corrupt, stupid, liberal that has proved over her many, many years as Secretary of State and as a Senator. She doesn't know how to solve America's real problems. The thing about Hillary attacking Trump for not telling everyone his plan to defeat ISIS because it's smart. Before Obama made a strike against ISIS, he would broadcast his plan to the whole freakin world which gave away his plan to ISIS. Trump is being smart and actually keeping it a secret so they don't prepare against it. I don't understand why liberals are so stupid. Just look at what they do: they created both the KKK and BLM (Black lives matter), they created Obama Care (The affordable care act) that has put many people in big bad financial situations, and many other ideas that have put Americans behind politicians and higher class for there benefit. Just, vote for Trump guys and he will "Make America Great Again"!
Posted by KadeDaBabe 4 months ago
KadeDaBabe
Clinton, or more accurately, the Clintons have been dishonest, crooked, and evil. They have proven over and over that they are corrupt and are criminals. Trump, well, lets see what he has done. He said something that hurt a liberals feelings. That is all. He is perfectly qualified for president and I believe he will do a freakin awesome job of fixing America's real problems, not stupid global warming, and truly, "Making America Great Again". #TrumpTrain
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by fire_wings 4 months ago
fire_wings
Jdogg303lannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: only one who made an argument
Vote Placed by trueseeker 4 months ago
trueseeker
Jdogg303lannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con makes a convincing case that is backed up by facts. Pro seems unable to refute these facts.
Vote Placed by Tree_of_Death 4 months ago
Tree_of_Death
Jdogg303lannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Spelling and Grammar-Pro had many sentences that weren't capitalized, misspellings (rascist). Pro's arguments were organized so poorly that he was barely able to get his point across. Arguments--Con made many detailed arguments attacking Trump's domestic, racial, and immigration policies, as well as thoroughly explaining Clinton's leadership experience. Pro's only argument is that Hillary will be a puppet of Bill, which he makes without any evidence whatsoever. This debate goes hands down to Con.