The Instigator
Darth_Grievous_42
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
MoonDragon613
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

Cold is Better than Hot

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/10/2008 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,522 times Debate No: 3163
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (12)

 

Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

By Cold I mean temperatures below around 70 degrees F (21.1 C), and by hot I mean temperatures above 90 degrees F (32.2 C), everything in between seems rather pleasant. My stance is that Cold temperatures are better than Hot ones. Thus, the polar opposite of my stance that my opponent will have to take is Hot temperatures are better than Cold ones. Both sides will accept that death can be caused by extremes of either side, so I will not bring it up unless provoked. The main points I will argue on, until my opponent brings up his own examples, will be Management and Behavior.

1) Management: We've all felt the effects of hot and cold. We know both can cause discomfort. But which one is more manageable? Cold is. If you go out on a hot day, about 100 degree's, what can you do to manage it? You can take off all your clothes if need be, but you'll still feel the heat. You can fan yourself, but that will begin to be straining, and will only block out a minimum of the effects. Swimming will cool you down greatly, but in the end in becomes tiresome, the water feels lukewarm, and your skin becomes rubbery and wrinkled. You get out and your back to where you started. Where as when it is cold you can always put on more garments to maintain a comfortable warmth. If it gets too hot in your apparels you can take a layer off and cool down, if you get too cold just add another one. An easy solution used by all furry mammals and primitive humans. You can also make fires and shelters to help with the cold. My opponent will probably think to bring up air conditioners, my pre-response being that air conditioners are expensive, unnatural, and only good for certain areas of the world, being houses, while my methods are cheaper, totally natural, and usable on a global scale.

2) Behavior: I can not find any specific scientific evidence to prove this, but have found this to be a trend I would very much like to be looked into. When observing geographic human locations in comparison to their temperatures, I've noticed that places with a tendency to have cooler climates seem to be 'better'. Places like Europe, Russia, Japan, China, and Northern parts of America seem to be doing better society-wise than places like South America, Mexico, Africa, The Middle East, Australia, and the Southern US. Places with cooler temperatures are more developed, while those in hotter areas are lacking. I think this is because temperature directly effects the intelligence of humans (this is not backed by racism). The hot regions are plagued by violence, bad economies, and poor health care, while cooler regions are more civil, have booming economies, and good medical systems. Of course, there are always inconsistencies. I can't deny that cooler regions have had their share of war, economic strife, and medical short comings and hotter regions have had progression. But I'm examining the larger picture. The general state of these areas. It seems to me that heat cause the brain to not think clearly, and act on irrational instinct, and thus has put the regions populace in a rut. But the cold makes people act on survival instinct, causing invention.

I think these two will suffice in covering a broad number of reasons why Cold is better than Hot. If my opponent can think of intelligible reasons to the contrary I, of course, welcome them.
MoonDragon613

Con

Management and Behavior are interesting criteria ... but hardly the only ones in deciding between cold and hot. I would like to add my own two criteria. Rarity and happiness.

1. Rarity.
If we look at the universe, as a whole, heat is a rare and precious commodity. If you try to pick a random point from the universe, the probability of hitting a point above 90 degrees is 0%, give or take a fraction. The probability of hitting a point below 70 degrees is 100%, give or take a fraction. Heat is such a remarkably rare phenomenon in the universe, more precious than diamond, more precious than platinum. Because hot is so rare, much like life, it is better than cold. Supply and Demand. The Demand for heat is awfully high in this universe, and the supply so preciously low.

2. Happiness.
My opponent made connections between geographic human locations in comparison to their temperature. Well so can I. There seems to be a strong correlation between heat and happiness, in this case as measured by suicide rate.
As measured per 100,000 Switzerland and Lithuania have 17 and 38 suicides per year. On the other hand Ecuador and the Philippines have 4.8 and 2.1 suicides per year respectively. It seems that wherever you find cold you find significant levels of suicide whereas wherever you find heat, that rate disappears. Therefore although I (also) have no scientific basis, I feel confident in making the claim heat makes people happy.
---------------

3. Management
My opponent makes the claim that cold is easier to manage because you can wear jackets. Whereas if it's hot and you take your clothes off, "you'll still feel the heat." But let's be honest, How many of you (the audience), have gone outside on a cold day and realized, damn it's cold. When you're outside and it's cold, well guess what? Can't just materialize yourself a jacket can you? But you Can take off your shirt, or roll up your sleeves. And furthermore, even if you have jackets, the idea that you won't feel the cold is pretty ridiculous isn't it? I've gone out in the cold with heavy jackets and all, but I've still felt the icy chill of the cold wind piercing my layers of protection.

And also the claim the cold is easy to manage because all you have to do is build a house and turn up the heat is pretty ridiculous as well. My opponent makes the claim air conditioners aren't "natural". Yes intense heat can kill, but the simple fact of the matter is, living in a hot area is much more natural than living in a cold area. Humanity didn't evolve in Canada. Living where it's hot doesn't actually require air conditioning. Heat is where we were born, where we evolved. There is nothing more natural than living where it's hot.

4. Behavior
In the broad scope of history, it would seem heat is where you find civilization. Humanity did not reach the pinnacle of civilization in the cold hinterlands of Greenland. We reached our first pinnacle in the fierce dry heat of Egypt. While the rest of the world was stuck being primitive barbarians, the people of upper Africa were excelling, making huge strides in understanding the world and technological advances. And then we have the Islamic Empire. Saudi Arabia. Hot Hot and Hot. These were at their time again the pinnacle of civilization. Medicine, mathematics, again civilization, technology, Intelligence, not found in the icy lands of France or England, but in the hot lands of Saudi Arabia. Economic prosperity, the world's best health care, for hundreds of years where was there civilization?

The fact that today the icy lands of the north are reaching economic prosperity is no certainty that this will be a lasting trend. Clearly there is tremendous, overwhelming evidence that intelligence and civilization is to be found where it's hot, and that heat is conducive to both. Lol, I love how my opponent write that "hotter regions have had progression." Progression does not begin to measure the sheer enormous scale of development in hotter regions. If the Vikings have taught us anything, it's that cold freezes teh brain and Prevents people from thinking logically ... at least until the wide avaliable of energy made it so that it became possible to heat up the northern icy climates.

And so for these reasons, Hot is better than Cold.
-Hear me Roar!
Debate Round No. 1
Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

I welcome your new criteria, easy as they will be to debunk. Feel free to add more in Round 2 if you think of any.

1)Rarity - This only proves further that hot is inferior to cold. Because of its scarcity, and colds abundance, it shows tat it is the weak link. Cold obviously holds dominance, and simply is. By that I mean, that nothing needs to fuel cold for it to exist, it just will. But heat will die. Heat has to be fuel by something, but no source is infinite. Cold will survive for as long as the universe exists, while heat will only have a brief stay. Survival of the fittest, and cold is the fit one.

2)Happiness - In the areas you've mentioned, Switzerland and Lithuania, the weather, rather than temperature, is probably to blame. Lithuania, though it is cold, has a general weather pattern of rain and clouds. The same with Switzerland, especially in summer. The same pattern can be seen in Washington and Oregon. They are not generally cold, cool at best most of the time, but constantly raining. The belief is that the dreariness of almost constant RAIN is the cause of depression, then suicide, not necessarily the temperature. Besides, area's like Iraq, Iran, and most of Africa can hardly be described as happy places. Famine, drought, sand storms (all caused by heat) ravage the lands. The standard of living there makes an American Hobo look like middle class. The reason seems to me that the reason hot places have a lower suicide rate is that people are to busy dying to off themselves. Disease can also be attributed to heat as a side effect by the wide spread breeding of insects. Mosquito's cause malaria, a huge killer in both Africa and Southern America. Locusts eat crops, causing starvation all over the world really. So I do not think 'happiness' can really be a factor in the betterment of either hot or cold. But if we did, I would say that a few waterlogged, suicidal Lithuanians are a more acceptable loss than whole nations of Africa.

3) You misunderstand my claim. Jackets are a method of cold management, but there are also parkas, heavy coats, vests, blankets, sleeping bags, sweat shirts, sweaters, hoodies, ski masks, beanies, mittens, gloves, boots, uggs, long johns, wool socks, etc. to cover your body. Any combination can be used to prevent the cold from effecting you. Sure, if you dress to lightly you will still feel the cold, but that only means put on something heavier. Having lived in Monument CO, I've won many heavy coats in cold times, and with the proper combination am quite comfortable in a heavy blizzard. So much so I've even napped in snow drifts. Whereas when it is 90 degrees or more outside there's nothing I can do, even if I did strip down to nothing, to stop feeling the heat. Rather, I have to retreat to my house and stand in front of the air conditioning, and even that is not adequate at times. Cold can be prevented, or at least severely hindered by many methods. But on a hot summer day, there's a very limited number of options at ones disposal to get cool, and even less to be able to truthfully say they are comfortable.

4) Behavior - True, at the time, they excelled, but that time is far gone. The European and Asian empires are infinitely superior. Look at what the Saudia Arabian and Islamic Empires are now, in the modern era. Scraps of power, if that. While the Egyptians were busy using slaves to construct their over sized Lego monuments, the Europeans were developing the true civilization that lasts. Cold inspired invention, and sophistication, were the hot regions managed to get by with savagery and bloodshed. Any British gun could have easily beat the Arabic scimitar. Now the only traced of Egypt's might are in museums, constructed by the 'barbarians' of the North and cold. Hot may have been where we evolved in body, but cold is where we evolved in mind.
Of course, there is no absolute certainty that what exists now will remain forever. But it should most certainly be clear that the modern progression of the cold civilizations will long outlast those of the hot. In fact, right now its the hot regions that need a helping hand from the North. Cold means progression because the societies need to develop more and more to survive, while hot means true barbarianism and death.

So for these reasons, cold is better than hot.
- I'm listening, but I can't quite hear it...
MoonDragon613

Con

There is no need to add criteria. My opponent's valiant attempts not withstanding, he has failed on every level to successfully debunk my criteria, or for that matter defend his own. As I shall explain in greater detail.

1. - Rarity
My opponent argues that because Hot is rare, it is inferior. But we all know that to be untrue. Diamonds are rare. Tin is common. Which is more valuable? Which is better? If you had to choose between a gram of diamond versus a gram of tin, which would YOU choose? Because if you choose the diamond, then you understand that things which are rare and precious in the universe are also valuable.

My opponent argues Cold is better because cold survives. So let me ask him, and you the simple question. What is better, life or death? Life eventually becomes death, just as heat eventually becomes cold. So which is better, life or death? Hot or cold? Maybe death "survives" better ... but if you ask me, I'd rather be alive than dead.

2. - Happiness
My opponent argues heat causes famine. Cold causes famine as well, as I'm sure we'll all remember (Irish Famine?). But the natural disasters here are irrelevant. Or rather, they are relevant, but not in the way my opponent thinks.

We're talking about the direct impact of heat on happiness. Well in Africa and the Middle East, where the people are plagued by a painful existence with stressful environmental factors, there is no rate of suicide. Therefore one viable conclusion is that HEAT direct impacts on their happiness, keeping them happy and alive despite the wasteland that is their homes.

And in the cold areas, where there is tremendous wealth and prosperity ... it seems the people are sadder and more willing to commit suicide as statistics indicate. Therefore Hot is happy. Cold is sad.

3. - Management
Which is easier to manage, hot or cold? In order to protect ourselves from the cold, we need, quote, "parkas, heavy coats, vests, blankets, sleeping bags, sweat shirts, sweaters, hoodies, ski masks, beanies, mittens, gloves, boots, uggs, long johns, wool socks, etc. to cover your body."

If you ask me .... man, what a hassle. All this just to stay warm? Whereas in the summer, in the heat ... all you need is a t-shirt and shorts. Maybe sunglasses if you wanted to look cool.

And then of course there is air conditioning. My opponent wants you to ignore air conditioning ... but look around. Today, there are air conditioners everywhere we live, everywhere we shop. Our subways and our taxis and our buses.

But most importantly ... keep in mind that Cold HAS to be managed. You CANNOT live in the cold without these parkas, heavy coats, vests, blankets, sleeping bags, sweat shirts, sweaters, hoodies, ski masks, beanies, mittens, gloves, boots, uggs, long johns, wool socks, etc. to cover your body. You CANNOT live in Canada or Colorado without not only heavy clothing but also a heating system, an insulated house, and the above mentioned articles of clothing.

You CAN live in the heat. Without all these. We lived in the Heat before we even had these. We can live in the heat without insulated homes. We can live in the heat without a wide array of heavy clothing. We can live in the heat without a heating system, and even without air conditioning. Air conditioning is a luxury which makes living more comfortable, but unlike heating, it is a LUXURY, not a NECESSITY.

4. - Behavior
"True, at the time, they excelled, but that time is far gone."

So ... let me get this straight ... just to clarify of course ...
Between 3150 BC to 300 BC, or 2850 years, Hot was better than Cold (Egyptian Empire)

And Between 650 AD and 1250 AD, (Caliphate Golden Age), 600 years, Hot was better than Cold.

... and between 1400 and 2000 AD, the European nations, .... which are ... temperate in climate ... were the dominant civilization.

So for a total of 3450 years, Hot was better than Cold. And for 600 years, Temperate was better than Hot. Therefore my opponent has concluded on the basis of behavior, Hot is better than Cold.

-Hear me Roar!
Debate Round No. 2
Darth_Grievous_42

Pro

MoonDragon613 seems to misunderstand my logic behind my points. I hope these clarifications will educate him.

1) Rarity - I would choose tin. What can you do with a diamond? It's so rare that nothing useful to the world as a whole can be done with it. Rather, we idolize it because of its smallness in quantity. However, tin is much more useful. It's used to build and create, while diamonds just look pretty. The same applies with Heat in the scope of the universe. Heat is a universal luxury, not a necessity. Cold in infinitely more useful to the universe than heat is. Heat destroys its fuels while cold preserves. The universe will continue to spin without heat; it's just something nice to have in the mean time. So again, by my opponents own analogy, heat is useless to the universe, thus cold is still better.

2) Happiness - You seem to miss my point in bringing up the disasters of the world. Even if it is true that hot regions have little to no suicide rate that does not mean the people living there are happy. Because of the quality of life they are probably significantly unhappier than a cold dweller. Also, if you look at the countries over all death rate, you find Africa and Mexico have a staggeringly higher percentage than Europe or America. SO it comes back to what I said: people aren't killing themselves because they are to busy dying. They don't need to kill themselves when their own bodies are already doing it for them. Just because people don't kill themselves does not mean they are happy by any means. The rampant disease and common famines play major roles in this. Most Europeans can drink their water without fear of contamination, but Africans can't. Europeans have the time and ability to just go out into the world and enjoy themselves while Africans are to busy trying to survive. So these criteria should not be Happiness, as it's all too obvious that people in cold regions are far happier than hot regions. Instead it should be Lifestyle, but even that does not help my opponents point. So heat does not equal happiness, instead it means death. Cold allows life, and also the ability to chose it.

3) What you've described about heat is not management. Managing means you are manipulating to help serve your own needs. You can do that much easier in the cold than heat. What you're describing is tolerance. Yes, you can't just go out in the heat but you will not like it, you just bare with it. But in the cold people can chose how they want to bear with it, and have many ways to do so. It may be lighter to survive in heat, but in no way does that mean its better to manage. Cold is much more pliable, heat is not. I think if you asked two people on the street, one in a blizzard with many layers of covering, and a naked man in 110 degree heat, you'll still find the cold person significantly more comfortable and grateful than the guy in the heat. The 'hassle' is dwarfed by the all the positives that one can get from the cold methods. So on this count, you've failed to show how heat is more manageable. Sure, you've shown that someone can begrudgingly tolerate the heat, but have given no evidence on how they can stand in the heat and manipulate it so they are comfortable.

4) Yes. I do think these 600 years are better than the 3450 or so years were people got their hands ct off for stealing, wars were fought over petty disputes, slaves were a global market, people constantly living in fear, death at a young age, children being hauled of at 10 to learn to be soldiers, horrible standards of living, and blood sacrifices to pagan gods. Why? Was there some kind of point to this clarification? Was it whether I preferred quantity or quality? I'll go with both. So the modern era has not lasted as long as the ancient one. At least the modern one is still progressing, while the ancient one cannot. I'd love to see anyone go back to Mesopotamia and claim they thing that cities way of life is better than modern Chicago. I would certainly be taught a lesson to hear someone say a Jewish Egyptian slave's housing is better than even a lower class Americans. The simple fact is, now is better than then. That time unfortunately lasted longer. but doesn't mean its superior in any way. Our sky scuppers dwarf the pyramids, last longer, made in less time, and were built by workers who actually wanted to work. You can try to make the same claims about Egypt, but will not be able to. Cold years are better than hot one's, plain and simple.

So in conclusion, I've supported both my claims and my opponents in my favor. His analogies are whimsical at best, but provide no better reasoning to support why cold is better than hot. Useless Rarity is not a factor. Happiness by suicide rates is not a factor. Tolerance of bad circumstances is not a factor. And Quantity f years are not a factor. They do have some statistics in their favor, but are nothing compared to those cold has. Cold, on a universal level, is better than heat. Cold regions provide better lifestyles for people than hot regions. Cold can be managed in peoples favor, not just bared with. Cold years are far superior to the many bloody, war-torn, distasteful years of heat. On all accounts it is superior. Cold is better than hot.

Reminder to the reader: Remember, it is not your personal opinions on cold or hot that decide on your vote, but which debater proved their side better. If you feel the need to justify your anonymous vote you can do so in the comments area.

Roar all you want, I just bought earplugs.
Darth_Grievous_42 out.
MoonDragon613

Con

Closing Remarks:

I did not misunderstand your logic. And if I did, it could only be because your logic was flawed and I was trying to help out (=P). Anyways...

1) Rarity.
The argument here is not about which is more "useful", it's about which is better. So again, let's compare.
Diamonds, Rare. Life in the galaxy, Rare. Planets that sustain life. Rare.
Tin, Common. Emptiness in the galaxy, Common. Planets that cannot sustain life. Common.

Heat, Rare. Cold, Common.

Things that are Rare are often more valuable, hence "better" than things that are common. Heat is Rare. Cold is not just common, it's ubiquitous. It's everywhere. And since Heat is more valuable, it's better. My opponent pins his arguments on the fact that he would choose Tin over Diamond. And now let me ask the audience. Because anyone who chooses Diamond over Tin, has no choice but to vote for MEEEEEEE.

2) Happiness.
I did not miss your point about bringing up disasters. Rather YOU missed MY point about disasters. You see, considering the host of natural disasters, and wars and etc. the people who live in hot places should be so miserable they should be committing suicides on a very very regular basis. Daily. Minutely. But they don't. THEREFORE, it's clear that the HEAT in and of itself, must have a positive impact on happiness. Well by clear I really mean one plausible explanation not exactly backed by scientific fact. BUT, this goes unchallenged by my opponent. Without an alternative explanation which makes more sense, my reasonable hypothesis stands unchallenged, and therefore I win on this point as well.

3) Heat Management
My opponent claims that my discussion about "parkas, heavy coats, vests, blankets, sleeping bags, sweat shirts, sweaters, hoodies, ski masks, beanies, mittens, gloves, boots, uggs, long johns, wool socks, etc. to cover your body." is not heat management. I would think it very much falls under heat management right? I mean in the cold, you have to undergo extensive effort to maintain warmth using all the mentioned. In the heat, all you need is a t-shirt, or no shirt at all. Doesn't that suggest that heat is easier to manage than cold?

And furthermore, even if we accept the argument that this is about "heat tolerance", not "heat management", even better. Because that's ANOTHER point in favor of heat. Heat you can tolerate better than cold, as my opponent concedes. (read his argument, because it sounds like a clear concession to me)

And lastly ... "think if you asked two people on the street, one in a blizzard with many layers of covering, and a naked man in 110 degree heat, you'll still find the cold person significantly more comfortable and grateful than the guy in the heat."

All the way back in Round 1, I said "And furthermore, even if you have jackets, the idea that you won't feel the cold is pretty ridiculous isn't it?" The truth is, jackets are pretty uncomfortable. Often, unless you have the right jacket, you'd feel too cold OR too hot. And how many of you have put on a nice warm jacket, gone outside to shovel snow, and then became too hot because of the physical exertion? Then you had no choice but to muck in severe discomfort because you know taking off the jacket would cause you to get cold and sick, but keeping it on just leaves you damp and hot. THAT never happens in the Heat.

4. Behavior
My opponent states in Round 1 "I think this is because temperature directly effects the intelligence of humans (this is not backed by racism). The hot regions are plagued by violence, bad economies, and poor health care, while cooler regions are more civil, have booming economies, and good medical systems. Of course, there are always inconsistencies. I can't deny that cooler regions have had their share of war, economic strife, and medical short comings and hotter regions have had progression. But I'm examining the larger picture."

So let me ask the audience ... who's Really examining the larger picture? The man who's looking at the past 200 hears, or the man who's looking back into the last 12,000 years? Remember, he's the one who wanted to examine "the larger picture".

And furthermore, remember, his argument depended on the following :"It seems to me that heat cause the brain to not think clearly, and act on irrational instinct, and thus has put the regions populace in a rut." which I've quite thoroughly disproved haven't I? Haven't I shown that the Heat, from a "larger picture" actually seems to promote civilization and economic and technological development? So I take all of HIS arguments, and apply them, with a more comprehensive examination.

And for these reasons I believe I've clearly won this debate.

-Hear me Roar!
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by ReverendJim 8 years ago
ReverendJim
I'm going to agree with Korezaan's first posting, I don't think "cold" and "hot" were defined with what people generally consider either. In my experience people consider "hot" 85+F and higher to be hot, and 40+F and below to be cold. The in between is something of "Gray area" which is generally where an individuals level of "absolute comfort" begins, ends, or both.

Beyond that, the term "better" (which is a subjective term) was never defined clearly in the debate. After all, if you're trying to store Ice Cream cold is certainly better than hot. On the other hand if you're trying to work on your tan, swim at the beach, etc, Hot is considered better than cold.

In conclusion, I cannot rate one persons debate as better than another because criteria for "better" was never defined.
Posted by Vi_Veri 9 years ago
Vi_Veri
Nice argument, con :) You did a brilliant job.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Assuming MoonDragon keeps the arguments in top shape, I'd have to vote Con.

I'm looking forward to it, this was entertaining.
Posted by Kmille11014 9 years ago
Kmille11014
actually, they proved somewhere that people who live in cool climates, and i mean actually cool like 40-, live longer. this is because they challenge their bodies more, while as in a warm climate, their bodies can relax and shut down easier. Im sorry, but i believe cold is better, assuming you have neccessary materials to stay warm... I hate warm cuz it makes me wanna puke...
Posted by Korezaan 9 years ago
Korezaan
lol @ MoonDragon's "Happiness" point. Although it is generally true that heat instead of cold means more happiness, I think it can easily be disproved by comparing Portland, OR to LA, CA. If my common sense prevails, LA has a higher suicide rate.
Posted by Derek.Gunn 9 years ago
Derek.Gunn
Cooler is better.

Apparently the world's greatest biological productivity in the last 30,000 years was during the glacial maximum (18,000 years ago).
Yes, ice covered much of Canada, but the oceans, Africa (esp the Sahara), Australia, and the Middle East were cooler and much more productive that the relative deserts we see today.

This is of course, one of the problems with global warming. Human over-population continues to worsen as biological productivity (our life-support-system) declines.

On a different level, the human body can typically survive being 10 degrees C colder whereas it never survives 10 degrees hotter.

Cheers
Posted by Korezaan 9 years ago
Korezaan
I think it would be more fair if "cold" was defined as 50- and "hot" as 80+. To me, it's not really hot or cold until it reaches around those temperatures. 70 is not cold o_O;
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Vote Placed by jmanstar 9 years ago
jmanstar
Darth_Grievous_42MoonDragon613Tied
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