The Instigator
Photographer2188
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
rogue
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points

Colorado Student- Banned "Inappropriate" Senior Photo

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
rogue
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,299 times Debate No: 20794
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (3)

 

Photographer2188

Con

Id like to debate on last months news of the Colorado student who got her senior photo banned from the yearbook. I am Con for her photo being banned. I will start my case.
http://news.yahoo.com...

As you can see from the photo Sidney (the student in question) is wearing a black top (just covering her front area) and a yellow skirt. I want to remind everyone that the girl is 18 years of age (meaning she is of age).
I don't find the photo inappropriate at all, in fact I find it very tasteful, and classy. Some people on that site I have referenced are going as far as saying the photo is good enough for PLAYBOY, Hustler, and Maxim. I completely disagree with this statement, if anyone saw Lindsay Lohans' photo spread in PLAYBOY then you do know the difference.
It just amazes me that people actually said she's equivalent to a stripper!! Making it more than what it needs to be. Do I think that school was right in banning the photo from the yearbook? Yes, and no.

Yes- Its the schools property and they can do what they want to it.
No- Seems a bit over board, this is a very classy photo. And, I have many classmates have senior photos like this. So it just seems very overboard to me.

But that's not the debate; the debate is whether or not the photo is inappropriate. I have seen plenty of girls in High School wear a tube top for their photo session. I guess my real issue is the whole PLAYBOY, Hustler, Maxim thing. I just think that's too far with it!

This photo has been very tastefully done, its classy, and the lighting is absolutely gorgeous!! If you want to see trashy photos go to a porn site.
Id be happy to hear other view points on this.
rogue

Pro

Clearly this is all a matter of opinion, but I think it comes down to the dress code of the school. I doubt she would be allowed to wear that in school, and if she is not allowed to wear that in school, it makes no sense for her to be allowed to wear that in a senior photo.

For the record I completely disagree with you. I think it looks like an ad for Gucci or something where they are selling sex. It isn't just her clothes, but the position she is in. Her back is cocked, her butt is out, and her eyes are flirty. It is definitely a gorgeous picture no doubt, but is it appropriate for school? No.

A senior photo is supposed to represent who the student is. If a girl was standing like that in the hallway, everyone would think she was looking for sex. Can you blame the school for not wanting a student represented that way? It is completely reasonable for the school to discourage young women from presenting themselves like this.

A senior photo is supposed to make the student look professional and ready for college. Clearly that is not an outfit you would wear to any kind of professional gathering unless you were a playboy bunny or a pop artist. Does she look college bound to you? I wouldn't say so. I think she looks like she is looking for attention from males.

This photo is inappropriate for a high school student. She may be a registered adult but she is still in high school. Do we really want men looking at our high school seniors that way?

You can barely get away from wearing clothes like that in public let alone in school. Any employer who saw that photo would immediately see her as a sex symbol and not take her seriously. The school is really doing this for her own benefit. If she had any sense she would be grateful but I guess that is done now since it is posted all over the Internet.
Debate Round No. 1
Photographer2188

Con

I've seen many photos where a girls back is arched; http://www.facebook.com...

Is this photo inappropriate?? Okay, granted there's no belly being shown, but her back is arched, and she does have a somewhat seductive look her face. Are we really going to be that picky, to judge body language and facial expression???
Senior Photos can be very versatile they are meant to show someone's personality. Yea, that personality maybe more than we need to know but its freedom of expression (That's in the First Amendment). I could bring it farther and say them banning it is a violation of that right!

Con Argued:
"Do we really want men looking at our High School Seniors that way?"- I'm not sure I understand this. Are you referring to Men ages: 30+? Or Boys ages: 17-20? Here's why I ask:

1. Men ages: 30+ unless they are a parent or relative of the Senior, won't ever see that photo (Obviously unless posted on the Internet; Face book, MySpace, Twitter, etc... you get the drift.)
2. Boys ages: 1-20, they are in High School. If you think they don't look at girls that way you're in SERIOUS denial. Its about experimenting learning who you are as a person emotionally, physically, and even sexually. Its just a given.

Con Argued:
"You can barely get away from wearing clothes like that in public..."- I live in Rochester, NY and the stuff I have seen :l Seriously, its WORSE than that photo. Ill give an example: I went to a 7-Eleven with my boyfriend one night (it was maybe 10pm) and in walks 3 African American women wearing I think the most they wear wearing were legit sweaters as dresses -___- When I say I saw EVERYTHING I am not lying. It was possibly the most horrifying moment in my life!
So next to that, this photo is completely appropriate!

Con Argued:
"Any employer who saw that photo would immediately see her as a sex-symbol..."- Yeah if she were working for any Joe Shmo. In the modeling world?! Don't get me started, she would have bites within weeks, if not Hours!!! (Yes, I understand its a yearbook photo. I am looking at this from all points. There are many factors to keep in mind.)

Con Argued:
"She should be grateful.."- You'd think right. Well, from a photographers point of view I cant even begin to tell you how many job offers she would be getting. Do you know how much on average a model makes?!?
Here's an example:
http://www.fashionising.com...
Clearly, this is an experienced model but you get my point right?
rogue

Pro

"Is this photo inappropriate?? Okay, granted there's no belly being shown, but her back is arched, and she does have a somewhat seductive look her face. Are we really going to be that picky, to judge body language and facial expression???"-This girl's back is not arched, she is leaning back, her butt is not out, and she doesn't look like a sex kitten. Yes we should be picky and judge facial expressions. How else are we able to read people, get a feeling for who they are or their intentions?

"Yea, that personality maybe more than we need to know but its freedom of expression (That's in the First Amendment)."- No. The first amendment says you can say what you want, write what you want and still we have restrictions on that. TV stations censor and block out inappropriate images all the time. Why? Because freedoms are not absolute. There is a time and a place for everything. A senior photo is not the place for a sexual picture.

"1. Men ages: 30+ unless they are a parent or relative of the Senior, won't ever see that photo (Obviously unless posted on the Internet; Face book, MySpace, Twitter, etc... you get the drift.)
2. Boys ages: 1-20, they are in High School. If you think they don't look at girls that way you're in SERIOUS denial. Its about experimenting learning who you are as a person emotionally, physically, and even sexually. Its just a given."- I am talking about all men. Obviously I realize boys look at girls like that. But putting a picture like that is asking for boys to see her a sex symbol. When a boy sees an appropriately dressed girl he thinks she is sexy but classy and won't see her as "easy" or looking for attention. When a boy sees a girl dressed like that, he assumes she is easy, wants boy's attention, and is likely only going to see her as a sex toy. We do not want to display high school seniors in that way.

As for wearing things like that in public, would you not agree that there are places you would not get in dressed like this girl or these girls you are talking about? A seven eleven is one thing, but restaurants and most workplaces would not allow such skimpy clothing.

Is she going into the modeling world? I don't know but does she want all other employers not to take her seriously? Even so a senior picture is not the modeling world, it is a school environment. Clearly that is not appropriate for school so it shouldn't be in a yearbook. Also, there are many pictures of models that aren't inappropriate like that. Why does she have to have a picture that is so scandalous?

Is it a smart idea to risk all other employers not taking her seriously for a senior photo? Regardless of whether or not she is going into the modeling industry, she is a high school student. That does not present her as a high school student. She is more than welcome to have those pictures and present them when she is trying to be a model. A senior photo is not the time or place for a picture like that.
Debate Round No. 2
Photographer2188

Con

"Yes we should be picky and judge facial expressions. How else are we able to read people, get a feeling for who they are or their intentions?"- Is it fair to say we can be wrong? Like your thoughts of her intentions, is it fair you can be wrong? I mean this girl probably really thought it would be a pretty photo, it couldve been very innocent and now we are judging her??? Really, come on.


"No, the first amendment says you can write what you want, say what you want..."- Okay, do we really have to go through the First Amendment? As you can see here in this link: http://en.wikipedia.org... , it actually says;
"everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice"
I do believe, this means photos as well cause it mentions "in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice." Please don't get me started on the first amendment with everything that Obama has done DISGUSTS ME. But that's a different Debate for another time. It's freedom of expression, it shouldn't matter where that is!!


"As for wearing things like that in public, would you not agree that there are places you would not get in dressed like this girl or these girls you are talking about? A seven eleven is one thing, but restaurants and most workplaces would not allow such skimpy clothing."- Do you REALLY think she's gonna wear that in public COME ON! I'm trying so hard to keep this clean but, that's just a STUPID thing to say. I wont even fight that, its just ridiculous.


"Also, there are many pictures of models that aren't inappropriate like that. Why does she have to have a picture that is so scandalous?"- "Scandalous"? Seriously? I could defend this but the guidelines won't allow it (due to the content). I have SOME WORSE PHOTOS THAN THIS. Everyone is making this photo out to be like some PORNOGRAPHY come on. Its not all that. Its a short tube top, and a skirt. Get over it. A scandalous photo would be of her cooch.....clearly that's covered -___-


You're last argument I won't even fight, because in a way I do agree with you. But in a way I don't. Freedom of expression that's all I have to say about it. I am not the type person to just bow down to society because I was told to do so. Is it a bad mind-set? Oh absolutely! But, its how I think. And, its refreshing to see someone (Sidney) who's not blind-sided by society. I credit her by being an individual.

rogue

Pro

"Is it fair to say we can be wrong? Like your thoughts of her intentions, is it fair you can be wrong? I mean this girl probably really thought it would be a pretty photo, it couldve been very innocent and now we are judging her??? Really, come on."- She's 18. Clearly the girl is not naive. Especially if you see the other pictures of her on the internet. She clearly knew what she was doing when she posed like that.

For the record, what you quoted was not from the first amendment, but from article 19 of the Declaration of Human Rights as it says on the wiki page.

"It's freedom of expression, it shouldn't matter where that is!!"- In that case anyone who wants to put up pornographic pictures of children can. People can feel free to show gruesome pictures of severed dog's heads in store windows. Let's just put up pictures of vaginas and penises everywhere. Can you say that's wrong if someone feels that that is art?

The point is that freedoms cannot come without limits and standards or there will be chaos and conflict of interest. It really behooves everyone to have some limits on freedoms. I don't want to see pictures of just anything or anyone put up around town, so I can deal with not being able to swear in some places or in some of my writing.

"Do you REALLY think she's gonna wear that in public COME ON! I'm trying so hard to keep this clean but, that's just a STUPID thing to say. I wont even fight that, its just ridiculous."- It isn't stupid. If she wouldn't wear it in public, why would she want all of her classmates to see her in that? Wouldn't she not wear that in public because it is too revealing? It makes no sense to wear something you wouldn't wear in public in a senior picture when a senior picture is public.

" I have SOME WORSE PHOTOS THAN THIS. Everyone is making this photo out to be like some PORNOGRAPHY come on. Its not all that. Its a short tube top, and a skirt. Get over it. A scandalous photo would be of her cooch.....clearly that's covered -___-"- Would you put those pictures on display for the world to see? Would you want your high school daughters looking and posing like that?

scandalous- disgraceful; shameful or shocking; improper: scandalous behavior in public http://dictionary.reference.com...

Lots of people, including me, would deem such expression and skimpy clothing shocking, disgraceful, and improper in a school environment. So no, calling is scandalous is not a stretch by any means.

" Freedom of expression that's all I have to say about it. I am not the type person to just bow down to society because I was told to do so. Is it a bad mind-set? Oh absolutely! But, its how I think. And, its refreshing to see someone (Sidney) who's not blind-sided by society. I credit her by being an individual."- Please. One can be an individual in this society and break out from the norm without looking slutty in a senior photo. I don't think she is worried about "not bowing down to society." I personally think she's a spoiled brat who is upset because she didn't get her way. Now I can't prove that, but that is my interpretation. If this is a freedom of expression issue, what is she trying to express? She is trying to make it ok for high school girls to look slutty in senior photos. That is not a message most of us want spread. We suppress expression all the time when we don't agree with the message. We suppress racism, sexism, homophobia, the list goes on and on. In America you are free to express new ideas and ideals, but when it goes against the morals of many Americans, it gets a bad rep. Most of America would find it immoral for a high school girl to dress like in a school environment. It is never as simple as "it's a freedom of expression issue."
Debate Round No. 3
Photographer2188

Con

Con Argued:
" She's 18. Clearly the girl is not naive. Especially if you see the other pictures of her on the internet. She clearly knew what she was doing when she posed like that."
- (There are many teens who are very Naive....hello teen pregnancy? Also, I think that yes on some level she was very aware, but I think the school was EXTEMELY vague. http://dhs.durangoschools.org... if you look on their site there is NO link for "Senior Photo Regulations" or "Senior Photo Requirements." I went to Spencerport High School: http://www.spencerportschools.org...
Heres our "Senior Portrait Requirements"-

"When ordering your senior portraits, please adhere to the
following guidelines when choosing which shot you would like included in the
2012 yearbook:

  • Digital
    files on disk are preferred, as their quality in the yearbook will be much

    higher than if you submit a hard copy
  • Pictures may be color, black and white, or sepia
  • Digital files should be at least 600 x 750
    pixels. That is 2” x 2 ½” @ 300 dpi.
  • Hard copies should be at least 2” x 2 ½”
  • Hands, props, and outdoor shots are acceptable
Any vertical pose (we recommend a head and
shoulders pose)"

Why is that Durango High had nothing?? I dont care how old anyone is, if they want discipline set rules/requlations and/or Requirements. Its the only way for structure, with being said they have no right to be "offended" because they didnt set the boundaries. Please give me a break, if it were me I would totally take legal action. Heres an idea, discipline the students with rules and structure.

Con Argued:
"For the record, what you quoted was not from the first amendment, but from article 19 of the Declaration of Human Rights as it says on the wiki page."- Okay, you are not understanding this at all I see. Which is fine I love a challenge. Clearly everyone knows that Freedom of Speech is human right, correct? I have decided to change my source due to the fact people can change whatever they want on wiki. I found this site: http://www.aclu.org...: I want to point out this quote "Freedom of speech, of the press, of association, of assembly and petition -- this set of guarantees, protected by the First Amendment, comprises what we refer to as freedom of expression." <---- Do I HAVE TO GO ON??
(*Comprise=
Consist of; be made up of: "the country comprises twenty states". Make up; constitute.*)


Con Argued:
"In that case anyone who wants to put up pornographic pictures of children can. People can feel free to show gruesome pictures of severed dog's heads in store windows. Let's just put up pictures of vaginas and penises everywhere. Can you say that's wrong if someone feels that that is art?"- That's exactly what I'm saying, and theres plenty of photos I have seen that are of children between the ages of 16+ (they are extremely artistic, and extremely gorgeous.) I also have a friend who is a developing photographer who recently took an artisic photo of roadkill. See you're not getting it yet, I do NOT agree with censorship. I don't see the need to "mute" everything out there. If a child asks a parent after walking in on an inappropriate show with sex and they ask "mommy/daddy what were they doing?" What are you going to say? "Oh honey they were "wrestling" " dude seriously? If you want to debate Censorship please give me the challenge.

Con Argued:
"Would you want your high school daughters looking and posing like that?"-
If there is no requirement I would find it perfectly fine. I would've re-thought the stomach showing but other than that, it would be fine by me. Again, freedom of expression, I can't defend that enough.

Con Argued:
"Lots of people, including me, would deem such expression and skimpy clothing shocking, disgraceful, and improper in a school environment. So no, calling is scandalous is not a stretch by any means."-
Again, where are the requirements? So until then it's not scandalous. If you want to see a scandal I suggest you look up some politic guys who have been not so hot in the last year. Or even the Casey Anthony case.

Con Argued:

" I personally think she's a spoiled brat who is upset because she didn't get her way."- Actually, if you read more about it she's not upset.
"She is trying to make it ok for high school girls to look slutty in senior photos."- Theres so much judgment in this I don't even know where to start.

(I just want to note that "homophobia" refers to having a range of negative attitudes and/or feelings towards homosexuality. Maybe surpressing Homosexuality is what you are refering to.)

I want to thank Con for taking my challenge.



rogue

Pro

"but I think the school was EXTEMELY vague. http://dhs.durangoschools.org...... if you look on their site there is NO link for "Senior Photo Regulations" or "Senior Photo Requirements." I went to Spencerport High School: http://www.spencerportschools.org......
Heres our "Senior Portrait Requirements"-"- Yeah probably because they never needed to have them cause no teenager before wanted to display themselves like that lol.

" I dont care how old anyone is, if they want discipline set rules/requlations and/or Requirements. Its the only way for structure, with being said they have no right to be "offended" because they didnt set the boundaries. Please give me a break, if it were me I would totally take legal action. Heres an idea, discipline the students with rules and structure."- I don't feel that they punished her. I would like to see their dress code because I bet it goes against the dress code which would make it against rules and structure.

So you think we should be able to show anything? Pornography of children? Severed animal heads? That would go against the morals of most Americans. Trust me I am not in favor of most censorship, but we have to have restrictions and limits on freedoms. If not then we should all wear slutty clothes to work, not have any kind of dress code for anything, we could all go around naked. It would be chaos. You want to educate children on sex and death and violence and make them see it as not such a serious thing? They aren't emotionally developed enough to handle these things.

I proved that what happened clearly fit the definition of scandalous lol. I don't know why you are taking issue with that.

I want to thank Con for debating me and expressing her views.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by mgwillardmatthew 1 year ago
mgwillardmatthew
it is allright to wear want you want
Posted by zach12 5 years ago
zach12
I don't understand where anyone could get the idea that a school should decide that a student should have to look like the want to go to college?
Posted by rogue 5 years ago
rogue
Yeah no problem! I treat people with the respect they give me :)
Posted by Photographer2188 5 years ago
Photographer2188
I want to thank you for being very mature during the debate the last guy who I debated was a jerk. But thanks it was fun!! haha
Posted by rogue 5 years ago
rogue
no problem lol I do that sometimes too.
Posted by Photographer2188 5 years ago
Photographer2188
I just realized I kept refering to you as 'Con" I am so sorry!!
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
Photographer2188rogueTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: The issues are (1) what is appropriate to the context of a high school yearbook, (2) what is the community context, and (3) who gets to decide. Pro made the case that school yearbooks reasonably impose fairly strict rules because of the circulation of the yearbook to students and the context of the high school. con could have made a case by finding evidence that the schoo decision was at odds with community standards, but he didn't.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Photographer2188rogueTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pros arguments where largely unrefuted, and she refuted cons arguments well, arguments pro because if this.
Vote Placed by royalpaladin 5 years ago
royalpaladin
Photographer2188rogueTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: I am giving the Conduct point to Pro because Con brought up entirely new arguments in her last speech (senior photo requirements, etc.) Arguments go to Pro because of Con's unrefuted analysis regarding whether or not the photo is public. Con concedes the analysis but attempts to claim that Sidney would not wear the clothing in public. So, Con implied that the clothing was not acceptable in a public setting. Pro notes that H.S. senior photos are public. This argument was not addressed by the Con.