The Instigator
prodigyofaristotle
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
BrandonHyde
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Communism Is Superior to Capitalism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
BrandonHyde
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/26/2016 Category: Economics
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 285 times Debate No: 93107
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

prodigyofaristotle

Pro

Communism is a severely misunderstood economic system that has been twisted by Western Neophobia. It promotes trust and kindness between people working for a common good. The Soviet Union, China, and any other case of "communism" that has been seen today was not true communism. These cases were lies used by dictators in order to seize power and oppress people.
BrandonHyde

Con

I accept this debate, and therefore take the position that capitalism is superior to communism - against the idea that communism is superior to captialism. As you are the host of this debate I shall leave it up to you to define the terms within your opening argument, good luck pro.
Debate Round No. 1
prodigyofaristotle

Pro

Thank you for accepting this debate.

Defining Terms-
When I say communism I am speaking of the economic system proposed by Karl Marx in Capital and The Communist Manifesto.

Communism is superior to capitalism based on its ideals. It promotes people to work together and act for a single purpose. It also gives power to the working class. The working class deserves all the power, the economy depends on them. Capitalism gives all the power to a select few. It allows the lower classes to be abused and exploited. Capitalism is unjust. Communism is just.
BrandonHyde

Con

Thank you for giving your opening argument. I will not refute any of your points until the next round, instead I am going to outline why capitalism is superior.

Defining Terms:

Capitalism is the economic system which was further developed and commented upin by Adam Smith, and others after him - in the book The Wealth of Nations.

Capitalism is superior to communism based on its principles that describe realistic human behavior and nature - rather than idealistic and collectivist principles. It promotes the idea that individuals have the control of what they want to consume as producers want to make profit and therefore will only provide what the people want in demand. Thereby capitalism promotes freedom. Capitalism does not promote the idea that consumers should have control over the means of production but instead have the freedom to influence what is produced - as I have already described.

I will now allow Pro to refute my opening argument/statement.
Debate Round No. 2
prodigyofaristotle

Pro

I am not stating whether the communism will work or not. I am stating that communism is better in ideals, motive, and importance when compared to capitalism. If a true communistic society is compared to a capitalistic society, it will always be better. Capitalism does not promote freedom. It gives a select few (large companies etc.) the power and it forces the working class and lower class into poverty. Communism promotes opportunity and wealth to all people of a society, not just a select few. Communism will always be better in ideals.
BrandonHyde

Con

This is where you are incorrect. Capitalism is not inherently for consumers (individuals) or producers (businesses). You ignorantly (like many do) confuse capitalism with corporatism. Let me explain.

Capitalism is where the means of production are controlled by producers of goods and services which are then made accessible to consumers via businesses that distribute the goods and services - an individual producer can also be the firm for which sells to consumers.

Whereas...

Corporatism is where the means of production are controlled by producers of goods and services but then are made accessible to consumers via large corporations that distribute the goods and services. The key difference is within the size and dominance of the business/corporation. Under corporatism the individual does not benefit from transactions (the purchasing of goods and services) as much as the producer does. The reason why capitalism works is because both parties believe they benefited equally or very close to equally. Corporations can get away with this because there aren't many alternatives, you are forced to buy your goods and services from them - you are forced to be employed by them. Corporatism is created when capitalism is corrupted with government intervention which allow markets to become less accessible and therefore less competitive. It favors greedy and corrupt politicians and businesses. Capitalism favors individuals, whether they are a workman or the owner of such workman - it is simply the equilibrium between worker and master (master being a term for boss when capitalism was sort of a thing - there has never been a time when pure capitalism was able to be exercised).

Pure free-market capitalism DOES indeed promote freedom as it is the CHOICE of the consumer for what they will choose to consume. Whereas under communism, where the means of production are in control of the state (or to then the extent of the people), doesn't promote freedom for the variety of choice is limited to what the common man can produce - rather than what the common man wants to consume.

Even if you are talking ideals capitalism prevails in economic freedom as well as individualist freedom. Karl Marx (and Friedrich Engels) promoted collectivism, which in the real world has given rise to the regressive left (a terrible thing for individual liberty). Speaking history the only thing communism promoted was oppression and collectivism - which ultimately goes against our rights as individuals.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by whiteflame 4 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: KeyserSoze115// Mod action: Removed<

5 points to Pro (Arguments, Sources)n. Reasons for voting decision: Corporatism is a form of capitalism where corporations become so large and powerful that they rule the government. Corporatism corrupts the government by using lobbyists to influence policy to create an unfair advantage and further cement their monopoly. Corporatism is the ultimate conclusion to capitalism unless you have some government control to prevent it. This is why we have antitrust laws. Saying that government corrupts capitalism to create corporatism is backwards. Capitalism is only concerned about the bottom line. Pure capitalists will pollute your air and poison your water as long as it makes them more money. A strong and effective government is the only thing that can stand in the way of unchecked capitalism from wreaking havoc. I agree with the Pro argument that on paper communism as described by Karl Marx is superior to capitalism.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The voter doesn't explain sources. (2) Arguments are insufficiently explained. The voter spends a great deal of time examining the topic from his perspective, but only has a single sentence stating that he agrees with Pro and no analysis of Con's argumentation. Neither of those are sufficient, and the perspective the voter provides makes him look biased on the topic.
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Posted by BrandonHyde 5 months ago
BrandonHyde
Also none of us used sources so why give Pro points for using more reliable sources?
Posted by BrandonHyde 5 months ago
BrandonHyde
@KeyserSoze In principle then you believe that collectivism is superior to individualism? You believe that workers are superior in controlling the means of production compared to businesses? Pro was arguing for principles not application. So it is a bit unfair for you to use "capitalism pollutes" as a reason for voting for Pro. Polluting is not a capitalistic principle, just a inevitable (with our level of technology) consequence. I agree that corporatism is a form of capitalism. But the problem was Pro obviously saw capitalism as corporatism, full stop.

How do corporations get so large? Governments allow it to happen. So yes government corrupts capitalism.
Posted by BrandonHyde 5 months ago
BrandonHyde
Capitalism, for what it was meant to be, was never fully tested to its finest because of greedy, wealthy elitist politicians alongside greedy, wealthy elitist businesses.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by harrytruman 5 months ago
harrytruman
prodigyofaristotleBrandonHydeTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con claims that capitalism is better than communism because your rights care respected, Pro responds by saying that capitalism favors the 1%, and Con refutes this by proving that capitalism is for individual liberties i.e. the right to property, while communism favors totalitarianism.