The Instigator
Diirez
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
gannon260
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Communism (Pro) vs Capitalism (Con)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/19/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 870 times Debate No: 68542
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Diirez

Pro

Topic: Communism vs Capitalism.
Pro is on the Communist side.
Con is on the Capitalist side.
Round 1: Acceptance and Statement
Round 2: First Argument
Round 3: Rebuttals and Questions
Round 4: Answer Questions, Second Argument
Round 5: Rebuttals and Closing Statements.

Please in Round 1 state what kind of capitalist you are (Democrat, Republic, Left, Right, Free Market, Interventionism, Libertarian..etc.)

Communism = Marxism = A classless, stateless society in which the means of production are owned by the proletariat (working class).
gannon260

Con

i accept as a leftist capitalist.

I will be defending capitalism with a leftist twist and i will oppose communism. We will also need to define command and free market systems.

command market= Economic system in which the means of production are publicly owned and economic activity is controlled by a central authority. Central planners determine the assortment of goods to be produced, allocate raw materials, fix quotas for each enterprise, and set prices.

free market= is a market system in which the prices for goods and services are set freely by consent between sellers and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority

capitalism=an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

As a capitalist from the left, i will be debating about staggered tax rates and social security etc which offers the benefits of communist systems, but with more economic freedom than communism. I will also debate that regulations can prevent bad capitalism and also that socialism has failed so many times and that because of no socialism, communism has never been born.

I look forward to this interesting debate and i hope to see your argument.
Debate Round No. 1
Diirez

Pro

Capitalism in it's most fundamental aspect is a system of slavery. No matter which way you spin it, left, right or center, it's still a system in which is divided into three classes, lower, middle and upper. Now how does this make Capitalism slavery? It is because in every capitalist system it has to survive off of the upper class exploiting the lower class and middle classes, or the working class [proletariat]. The best way to describe Capitalism under the left political system is 'bigger cages, longer chains.' In which it recognizes the problems, but instead actually alleviating the problems, or fixing them at the root cause, the left instead tries to make it less grueling.
Capitalism is also inefficient, as if people don't buy enough stuff one year, then workers get laid off, which in itself leads to less consumption, which leads to a recession and more workers getting laid off. Also capitalism basically tells people that if they want to live, then they have to work. Which is in itself immoral as we are now putting a price tag on being alive. Food, water, shelter, the basic things we need to survive have a price tag associated with them. However what is even worse is the fact that someone profits off of it. Someone produces something, like food, and then they force you to pay for it to survive. It is like seeing a man in the desert who desperately needs water and dangling a bottle of water in front of them and instead of giving it to them, you instead say " what will you do for me?"

Another thing that makes capitalism bad is the fact that the boss, or seller, makes more than the workers. So the sellers and bosses profit off of the backs of their workers. For instance, give a man $10 to make a stool. The worker makes it and then gives it to his boss or seller and they sell it for $30. The seller then gives the worker $10 of that profit to keep making more stools. This is immoral, as the worker worked to make it while the boss just reaps the rewards from it. Now on my hypothetical situation, there's not that much difference between the boss and the worker, but in real life, there is a massive difference between salaries. Look at McDonald's for instance, Donald Thompson the CEO of McDonald's his salary is $9.5 million dollars [1], which is $197,916.666667 per week while his employee's is $8.25-$9 an hour and if his employee works 60 hours a week they would only make $495-$540 per week.

Another thing capitalism does it put the interest of profit over the interest of need. It is not about providing food to keep people alive, or providing a tv for entertainment, it is about producing the item in the cheapest possible way and then selling it for the highest it can sell for. This is why many companies in America outsource to other countries where the cost of labor is significantly cheaper just so the bosses can make more money.

Communism is the better alternative because it is a system based off of and for the working class. It doesn't focus on ruling classes, it does not center around a small percentage elite, instead it gives the means of production to the workers. Communism seeks to give people what they need and have society function communally together. There's no some people are better than others, there is no grueling work of 2 or 3 jobs just to keep yourself and family alive, there is no starving children in the streets cold and upset, there is no homeless in the winter freezing to the death and starving to death, instead it is a society that gives everyone the right to live and the rewards of their labor.

[1]http://www1.salary.com...
gannon260

Con

hello

capitalism-an economic and political system in which a country's trade andan economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.ustry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

First, i will negate my opponents definition of capitalism. Capitalism is not slavery, it is in fact based upon free market principles and actually endorses economic freedom. Capitalism is in line with a free market economy where people can freely make decisions on what goods to buy based upon wants and needs and in order to obtain the goods, they must produce something. Now, workers in itself have to work no matter what, whether in a capitalistic or communist society, both must work in order to support the society/themselves. What my opponent fails to realize is that we cannot all live off the system without putting anything in it and expect it to survive. An economy cannot survive by constantly feeding off of others as my opponent implies, we simply cannot create food, supply water, or any other basic needs unless we have humans to obtain these resources, which requires people to work. Capitalism in essence is very efficient, because it is an economic system based upon profit, private enterprises will try to cut cornors where possible. I don't truly understand what my opponent is saying about how capitalism leads to workers getting laid off since a capitalistic society needs to have workers in order to produce goods. The four main key components in capitalism is land, labor, capital, and entrepreneurship, slavery is not among them. Slavery is where people are treated as subhuman, mere pieces of property. Capitalism does not endorse this ideology at all, it does utilize humans for economic benefit, but yet again so does communism.

In my opponents hypothetic illustration of why capitalism is immoral, he fails to realize that the boss may actually lose money and is risking his financial property based on if there is a demand of the good. The man in return for his hard labor recieves $10, if this truly were slavery, he would recieve no compensation. The boss reaps the reward because the boss is taking risks as well as paying for the rent and other business expenses. I understand that there is a growing inequality in our current system, but with leftist implementations, we are able to allow the worker to have health benefits as well as food, shelter, etc so he can live a happy life yet still have the CEO have a high salary. Corporations need CEO's to govern their corporations, i understand that the pay gap may not be reasonable but many CEO's had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for schooling, training, and other expenses in order to get to that position as well as a bit more hard work/stress than an average mcdonalds worker,

The thing about outsourcing is that it is very efficient. A worker in China gets paid significantly less than a worker in America since money in China goes much farther than money in America. This allows for corporations to increase the cost efficiency of their products which means cheaper products for consumers like you. Yes, this is trading off with domestic jobs, but it also creating jobs as you need people to drive the ships needed for outsourcing, drive the trucks to transport the goods, and hire people to stock the shelves with these good. These jobs are not completely gone.

Starvation and other capitalistic bads can be solved with much leftist ideology like social security, increasing food stamps, and other social services that solve. Communism has never been tried, and its precurser, socialism has failed innumerable times. Examples like North Korea are a stark reminder of the food shortages and inefficiencies that plague these systems as the workers are not incentived to increase production. Private enterprise is all about maximizing production while minimizing costs, this has created the industrialized nations we see today as industry upgrade new technologies to increase production and lower costs which advances economies. Communism on the other hand endorses the fact that all people should have jobs and does not emphasize increasing productivity by leaving the governance in the hands of the workers. If i was a worker, i would vote for the least ammount of work hours possible while maximizing my benefits. This will eventually lead to the downfall of the economy because i am not producing as much since i don't have a boss telling me that i should work more efficiently. We must have unemployment to maximize production efficiency, otherwise an industry will be unable to fire lazy or innefficient workers.

conclusion

Capitalism is the most logical economic system as it is the basis of the world's economy. Communism will fail due to it's inefficiencies. Capitalism and communism both use workers to produce goods, and therefore both are technically means of slavery, niether one is much better in terms of slavery. Many of the negative impacts can be solved with leftist policy. I rest my case.
Debate Round No. 2
Diirez

Pro

Diirez forfeited this round.
gannon260

Con

My partner has forfeited, i extend all previous evidence.
Debate Round No. 3
Diirez

Pro

I am cancelling this debate as I have the flu and unable to debate. Hopefully we can redo this debate at another time. I apologize for the inconvenience.
gannon260

Con

Um ok, vote con
Debate Round No. 4
Diirez

Pro

Diirez forfeited this round.
gannon260

Con

get well soon.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by bballcrook21 1 year ago
bballcrook21
I would wish to debate this in the future. Con did not do Capitalism justice, because otherwise it would have been a straight win.
Posted by gannon260 2 years ago
gannon260
.l
Posted by gannon260 2 years ago
gannon260
Diirez i would love to start another debate when your better, but youve got to admit that forfeitings kinda lame.
Posted by gannon260 2 years ago
gannon260
Also theres the factor in which your currently in a debate against me and your holding some level or form of contempt against my other debates.
Posted by gannon260 2 years ago
gannon260
Forfeiting is more unfair, it devalues hard work put into writing a speech.
Posted by piefav 2 years ago
piefav
I love how gannon260 tells people to vote con, which is very unfair considering that the debate could not end properly. I say, don't vote, like a normal person would...
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